I got reported to the FAA (not a ******* Satire)

F01LA said:
So it appears that Jesse's worst-case-scenario didn't come to pass. But how can you know if it's just a friendly chat, or a witch hunt? We might as well all stop making jokes online. Bryan's original comment, clearly sarcastic, resulted in some hassle and stress for him. What a ridiculous world we live in.
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Hmmmmm......witch hunt......setting him up for a trap!

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Well, I can certainly say that this thread has been good for PoA. We haven't had this much fun at one person's expense since Levy and Henning and Captain and Tom-D quit hanging here as much!

;)
 
overdrive148 said:
Not sure I agree with posting the name of the person online in response. Talking to them sure...
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Talk to them first then decide whether or not to post it. Maybe it really was some clueless dweeb with no sense of humor, maybe they just need the concept or sarcasm explained or to have it explained just how serious making a report like that is. It's hard to believe there are people like that in the modern connected world but they exist and there seem to be a lot of them in the aviation community unfortunately.

One of the reasons I avoid posting my real name is it makes it harder for someone to casually make a report if I make a joke or even post something revealing I inadvertently violated some rule. That and I can't be googled.... obviously if anyone wants to know who I really am plenty of people here know and I've dropped enough information across posts for it to be figured out but it would take more than a casual screenshot so someone would have to care an awful lot.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Sorry. I got crazy busy at work....The details are way too much to type but I will have a documentary shortly.

So First, probably 80% of what I have heard about these guys might be somewhat embellished internet lore.

I will get to that. Here's what happened.
A very robotic young man greeted me and refused to shake my hand. I was like "WTF Bro???"
He said "I have a cold and I would hate to be the cause of you falling ill"
He had a trainee with him as well so that guy sat in.
They are both pilots by the way

Dude goes: "So what is your rebuttal to the claim that you have been receiving compensation in exchange for flight lessons?"
I reply: "I have not been receiving compensation in exchange for flight lessons"
He says: "May I see your log book?"
I hand him my logbook. *gasp*

He spends 10 minutes reading every single memo which I am a little embarrassed by because my logbook is more like a comic book.
It was painstaking. He didn't skip one spec of ink.
He tested me: "So who is this Mark King?"
I said: "A friend. He and I flew together once."

I put people's names in my logbook. If we've flown together you are in there (probably under "mile high club". Mom's is the most awkward)
He gave me my logbook back.

He goes: "Well, we have nothing so substantiate that you are in fact receiving compensation for flying. However there will be a note in your file that there was an investigation that could not be substantiated. This is not negative in anyway but the investigation would be able to be reopened in the event that at later time there is cause to believe you are in fact accepting money w/o the proper ratings."

Me: Great! Mind if I interview you guys?
They said "sure"

I spend a good 45 minutes learning all about the FSDO and every thing then can do, don't do, and they dispelled so many things. More later on that.
They said I could use the FOI to attempt to get the identity of the person that submitted the claim which I am going to do.

I also told them to expect to see me again and we will probably become good friends over time.

Honestly aside from the fact that someone decided I needed this lesson, the event today was good. I learned a lot and I (and you) should have zero fear if these guys reach out to you. Even if you've done something wrong. They are not out to get us. Like I said, they (in this case) are pilots and stated their goal is to get pilots back into compliance in the event that they screw up.
At any rate, more silver linings than dark clouds on this event
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I was pretty sure it would go this way. They gave you the blue pill too right :) Just kidding.

My sense is these are guys are generally people that like aviation and want to be around it. And it seems someone from above has told them to look for any rules being broken and remedy it vs turning it into lynching to then be followed by the trial. Obviously some "compliance" scenarios can be painful (checkrides, aircraft inspection, etc) but it seems GA issues are probably noise.

One of the ASI's I had to speak to talked about how complicated it is to have that job and also be a GA pilot. Just getting one thing wrong (accident, logs, etc) and its terrible publicity for them. I don't know how shunned they are for flying on their off time but I could just tell it wasn't his favorite setup.

And the other ASI I think just wanted to be around aviation. He is a pilot but hadn't flown for years. He wanted to meet outside the office or at the airport. I think now he just wanted to be around aviation and a small break from the paperwork and seriousness of the office.
 
wsuffa said:
Notice that they never said that they believe you or that they believe you didn't break the regs. They said its "ubstantiated" and that it will go in the permanent file (dossier). That is a far cry from "you didn't do it".
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This is the part that bothers me. It isn't nothing that they now have a dossier with content in it - however "unsubstantiated". After all, unsubstantiated accusations can do a whole lot of reputation damage. In any case, the mere existence of this permanent file will form the base of justification for more intense scrutiny at the least next reason that comes along. Investigators will start off biased and don't tell me they won't, they're human.

Furthermore I distrust the warm fuzzy feeling they gave Bryan. It's a well know interrogation technique to put you at ease and make you think you're among friends. They want you to feel comfortable spilling your guts. On the other hand these aren't the police or the CIA, and if they are GA pilots themselves I can see them being more or less "on your side". I have to take Bryan's word about his impression, he was there and I wasn't.

I'm happy it's over for Bryan and there won't be any further consequences from this particular deal, but I don't see this as exactly a great result.

If nothing else we learn that you can put permanent marks on any pilot's record just by making unsubstantiated accusations. I don't think that's a good thing.
 
Yeah I dunno if I'd bother posting the name of whoever complained. It can feel good to start a war just for revenge. But the downside is, now you've got a war. Sometimes the best revenge is to forget it, move on and live a happy life.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Yeah I dunno if I'd bother posting the name of whoever complained. It can feel good to start a war just for revenge. But the downside is, now you've got a war. Sometimes the best revenge is to forget it, move on and live a happy life.
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People that do these kinds of malicious things should be held to account for their actions. They should be punished is some form or another.
 
1RTK1 said:
People that do these kinds of malicious things should be held to account for their actions. They should be punished is some form or another.
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More often than not I find that if you give them enough time, they tend to find a way to punish themselves without even trying.
 
1RTK1 said:
People that do these kinds of malicious things should be held to account for their actions. They should be punished is some form or another.
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Is it malice though?

Sure, we (as pilots) don't agree with it and it can potentially lead to certificate action depending on how things happen...but think about it based on the reporter's viewpoint.

They may not have known Brian or his sense of humor at first blush and they may have felt that a report was necessary. The outcome of the investigation would be one of two things - not guilty or guilty.

In the first, he would have done no wrong and not gotten in trouble - a good outcome. In the second, he would be punished for breaking the law - another good outcome. It is possible that the reporter saw both options to be positive good outcomes and reported with good intentions. We know that the FAA doesn't necessarily always help and that the report is a pain for the reported but did they?

It is also entirely possible that the reporter is a jerk who knew full well what would happen with malice.

Personally I wouldn't want to reveal their identity online for the sake of revenge. Do what you want, I'm a mushroom not a cop.
 
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Who ever reported him damn well knew it was a joke, if not then that person only has two brain cells and neither function properly.
In this day and age no one seems to be held accountable for their mis-deeds.
 
Well then how did he know bryan wasn't a cfi?? Anyone that would know he was or wasn't a cfi would surely know his sense of humor.
 
1RTK1 said:
Well then how did he know bryan wasn't a cfi?? Anyone that would know he was or wasn't a cfi would surely know his sense of humor.
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Like this?
SixPapaCharlie said:
"I can teach you but I am not a CFI so it won't be legal which is why I have a cash only, under the table policy but I'm good :)"
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1RTK1 said:
Who ever reported him damn well knew it was a joke, if not then that person only has two brain cells and neither function properly.
In this day and age no one seems to be held accountable for their mis-deeds.
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We are probably only hearing half of the the story. The FOIA request could be interesting.

I know for a fact that at least for some FAA investigations they investigate who is reporting it as well as the party that the complaint is about.

I once worked for an FAA Certified Repair shop. A plane came in that had previous been repaired by a competing shop. The owner didn't like how the repair was completed, nor did he like the other shop owner, and reported it to the FAA. The FAA investigated both Repair shops. They found no wrong doing with the other shop, but the owner of my shop was wrote up for several issues that he had to correct (at some expense) and verify to the FAA that he had corrected them.

Just something to remember before you go complaining to the FAA about that other guy. The FAA may think they should look at your logbook(s) as well.

Brian
 
wsuffa said:
Notice that they never said that they believe you or that they believe you didn't break the regs. They said its "ubstantiated" and that it will go in the permanent file (dossier). That is a far cry from "you didn't do it".
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That's the standard way how administrative agencies close complaints. Doesn't matter whether it's child protective services, the board of nursing or the FAA.
 
Google indexes all the posts here. It’s most certainly trackable.

Simple rule, just never post anything to the Internet you wouldn’t be ok with the whole world seeing. Then you can stop worrying.
 
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Rushie said:
Furthermore I distrust the warm fuzzy feeling they gave Bryan. It's a well know interrogation technique to put you at ease and make you think you're among friends. They want you to feel comfortable spilling your guts. On the other hand these aren't the police or the CIA, and if they are GA pilots themselves I can see them being more or less "on your side". I have to take Bryan's word about his impression, he was there and I wasn't.
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I've dealt with the FAA enough in my career (both in the normal course of operations as well as for a couple of "misdeeds") that I believe that it was more trying to put him at ease because there was nothing to actually worry about. Yeah, if you back a Fed into a corner, he'll make all your worst nightmares come true, but if you treat them like humans, most of them will act like they're human.

Although I'm still wondering which one has the "FAA ON BOARD" sign I put in the window of the airplane when we did proving runs...and why they immediately assumed it was ME that put it there!:rolleyes:
 
N659HB said:
I don’t consider it in the same league as Facebook, but perhaps I should reconsider.
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These venues were the original social media platforms (well, USENET was earlier).

With its amazing Google search rankings, POA is swinging above its weight, and may be much more visible than the typical Facebook post.

I just entered "reported to the FAA" into Google, and this thread was the number 3 hit. :eek:
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
These venues were the original social media platforms (well, USENET was earlier).

With its amazing Google search rankings, POA is swinging above its weight, and may be much more visible than the typical Facebook post.

I just entered "reported to the FAA" into Google, and this thread was the number 3 hit. :eek:
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Well, crap. Who’s beating us? We need to get busy!
 
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