Electroair ignition

WannFly

Final Approach
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Priyo
my mags are coming up for 500 IRAN - Bendix Mags on O-360

What is the general consensus from POA on Electronic Ignition?
 
A good friend just installed the Electroair in his 260B. A lot of work. You need to install the computer and MAP sensor on the inside of the firewall, and the coil pack on the engine side. Really long ignition leads, you are supposed to use their fine wbire plugs, and install their push-button start switch panel, though to be honest it's not really necessary. Takes lots of real estate. The cam position sensor is mounted in place of the right mag, and timed at TDC. The computer takes care of start retard and run timing, so you do away with a shower of sparks. At high manifold pressure, I think over 25", the computer limits advance to 25btdc. At cruise manifold pressures, the computer will advance up to 30 btdc.

I've not flown in the airplane yet, but he says he can feel the difference in power, and the mag drop difference between the EIS and traditional mag is around 400 rpm, so the EIS must be a lot more efficient. Worth the money? I dunno. Unit plus install ran him around $8k. That's a lot of gas.

I would never be able to fit all that crap on the firewall. I might think about the Sure Fly when it gets certified. About $2k, simple self-contained install that just replaces the right mag, without the sensors coils pack and such. 90% of the benefits, fraction of he hassle.
 
Jeez..8k. No thank you. I was watching one of their videos where they estimate 4-6 hrs or they have said 40-60 hrs and I wanted to hear 4-6 hrs .... donno. Anyway, saw another option, better one actually can’t remember the name right now, but it has a self contained alternator... but only for exp guys
 
Jeez..8k. No thank you. I was watching one of their videos where they estimate 4-6 hrs or they have said 40-60 hrs and I wanted to hear 4-6 hrs .... donno. Anyway, saw another option, better one actually can’t remember the name right now, but it has a self contained alternator... but only for exp guys

PMag is the popular experimental solution. I have one of those now after a first gen (Experimental) Electroair failed and couldn't be repaired.

For spits and grins, compare the current Electroair ignition with the current version of the Electromotive aftermarket auto ignition.
 
PMag is the popular experimental solution. I have one of those now after a first gen (Experimental) Electroair failed and couldn't be repaired.

For spits and grins, compare the current Electroair ignition with the current version of the Electromotive aftermarket auto ignition.

Yes PMag is probably the one I was reading up on. Think they do dual with auto harness and plugs. Boy sometimes I wish I had a something non-certificated!!
 
I wouldn't waste the time and money on the certified EI options with a carbureted engine. That said? I'm liking my Pmags on my experimental FI engine. Different worlds.
 
Jeez..8k. No thank you. I was watching one of their videos where they estimate 4-6 hrs or they have said 40-60 hrs and I wanted to hear 4-6 hrs .... donno. Anyway, saw another option, better one actually can’t remember the name right now, but it has a self contained alternator... but only for exp guys

It took at least 30 hrs for my friend and his A&P to get it done. Probably could knock ten hrs off that now that they know where the warts are.

Personally, I like mags. Bone simple, solid as rocks. Sure they need mx, but what doesn't. I would think about the SureFly, but not buying gen 1 of anything.
 
EI is the future, IMO, but mags will be around for a long time due to the difficulty of getting EI approval from the FAA and the unlikelyhood of them ever allowing duel EI in a certified plane. The timing advance during cruise helps quite a lot with running LOP with far more efficiency. However, if that $8k price is real, I'd pass too. The estimated 1 GPH savings would take a long time to recoup that amount.

Love my P-Mag too. 7.5-8 GPH cruise at 155-160 KTAS. I'll swap my left mag for another one when it is due for IRAN.
 
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EI is the future, IMO, but mags will be around for a long time due to the difficulty of getting EI approval from the FAA and the unlikelyhood of them ever allowing duel EI in a certified plane. The timing advance during cruise helps quite a lot with running LOP with far more efficiency. However, if that $8k price is real, I'd pass too. The estimated 1 GPH savings would take a long time to recoup that amount.

I forget what the quote was that I got last year - Had to send the mags in for yet another overhaul, and wanted to see what the options were. I thought it was more like $6K, but still pretty dang expensive.

However, that mag overhaul cost us just north of $2000 to get them both done ($1488 to Poplar Grove for the overhauls, $448 in labor for R&R). And that's for 500 hours. So, each mag is costing us $2/hr in maintenance.

Now, if we could save 1 gph, even at a low fuel price of $4/gal, that's $6/hr benefit, so I guess it'd "only" take 1333 hours to pay for itself even if it does cost $8K to install. If those SureFly gadgets really only cost $1500, and can be installed for say $500, they'd pay for themselves in 333 hours, which for us is maybe 2.5 years. If that comes to pass, the next time we need a mag overhaul we'll only be doing one.
 
For spits and grins, compare the current Electroair ignition with the current version of the Electromotive aftermarket auto ignition.

That is only true of the experimental version. The certified one is different.

That said, if I ever get around to building an experimental I'll probably take a path similar to the experimental version but I'll just build my own setup.
 
Interesting chat to me as a new exp owner with one mag and one Lightspeed ignition (which is down due to a dead coil**)

Just wanted to pop in and say the mag o/h prices; maybe you are getting more for your buck but I had mine (slick 6320, pressurized) done at the place in Missoula this summer for <$400 so I think these can be done less expensively than posted. Included all AD compliance (I think there is only one on mine, the impulse coupling)

** I think the word is not widely shared that an electronic ignition is susceptible to coil failure from a one-time instance of firing the coil without an adequate path to ground for the high tension lead - ie if one spark plug lead becomes disconnected or someone is trying to see if a plug is firing but the plug body is not firmly grounded. Yes, you know this but talking to most pilots/A+Ps/pilots with solid A+P knowledge, it is not widely known.
Sounds like cars are susceptible to the same damage?
 
"place in Missoula" someone here told me about them...aircraftmagnetorepair.com or some such? Easily googled
 
Friends with Electroair report easier staring, better economy; but higher CHT's by about 10º. Both of these were IO-360's.
 
Interesting chat to me as a new exp owner with one mag and one Lightspeed ignition (which is down due to a dead coil**)

Just wanted to pop in and say the mag o/h prices; maybe you are getting more for your buck but I had mine (slick 6320, pressurized) done at the place in Missoula this summer for <$400 so I think these can be done less expensively than posted. Included all AD compliance (I think there is only one on mine, the impulse coupling)

** I think the word is not widely shared that an electronic ignition is susceptible to coil failure from a one-time instance of firing the coil without an adequate path to ground for the high tension lead - ie if one spark plug lead becomes disconnected or someone is trying to see if a plug is firing but the plug body is not firmly grounded. Yes, you know this but talking to most pilots/A+Ps/pilots with solid A+P knowledge, it is not widely known.
Sounds like cars are susceptible to the same damage?

I don't understand why this would be, or why it should be any different with electronic ignition or points. The primary will charge and collapse, the secondary will charge and collapse the same if it's connected to a spark plug or not. The only difference is the electronic ignition uses battery voltage and IC's instead of internally produced electromagnetic voltage and points to excite the primary.
 
Friends with Electroair report easier staring, better economy; but higher CHT's by about 10º. Both of these were IO-360's.

It’s supposed to advanced the timing, so that makes sense. For those of us with 20° mag timing, it would be a major improvement.
 
It’s supposed to advanced the timing, so that makes sense. For those of us with 20° mag timing, it would be a major improvement.
Definitely can't argue with that. I'm just concerned about higher CHT's and would personally prefer to see the effect from broader use. The Sure Fire is even more interesting since it replaces one magneto. Looks like a cleaner installation for crowded engine bays like my plane.

Really like to continue to hear individual owners experiences as people install one of these ignition solutions.
 
Definitely can't argue with that. I'm just concerned about higher CHT's and would personally prefer to see the effect from broader use. The Sure Fire is even more interesting since it replaces one magneto. Looks like a cleaner installation for crowded engine bays like my plane.

Really like to continue to hear individual owners experiences as people install one of these ignition solutions.

Higher CHTs are the result of more power (improved fuel burn) but it can be handled with improved cooling. Most GA aircraft baffling is quite inefficient with large gaps all over the place. After sealing a bunch of gaps on my Cherokee 140 with RTV, I had to cover 1/3 of my oil cooler in the summer to maintain 180* oil temps. I didn't have CHT or EGT sensors so never knew what my engine was doing otherwise.

My RV-7A, with one P-Mag, runs close to the same timing during take-off and climb (26.4 BTC ) as the MAG (25) and CHTs were hard to manage at first (400-425, which is still well within limits). I sealed every gap I could find, large and small, and started climbing at 115-120 KIAS and still getting 800-1000 FPM. No issue now with temps during climb. At altitude, higher RPM and lower MAP, the P-Mag advances quite a bit and temps want to climb again so I either run 100+ ROP or 10-30 LOP to keep things under 390 F. Once in cruise and LOP, everything is under 380 F but typically < 360.
 
I have flown a Warrior that had EI. I am skeptical of most STCs, but I was rather impressed with the performance increase.
 
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