Almost Had To Sell The Plane

Stingray Don

Stingray Don

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Stingray Don
After 22 years of working for AT&T, my position was eliminated in March of last year. I was off work for 5 months before I landed a contract position as a project manager. The project wrapped up two months ago and have been out of work since. My beloved 172N is my biggest expense and without income, it was about to go on the market. Yesterday I was offered a job with BCforward (PMO for Eli Lilly) as a project manager. I will be working at the Eli Lilly campus here in Indy. It is step down in position and compensation from what I had at AT&T, but it will pay the bills and allow me to keep flying N8050E. I think a celebratory flight and perhaps a $100 hamburger may be in order today!

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I’d sell a Corvette or two first. ;)

You could then change your name to Skyhawk Don.

I’m glad to hear you got a job and didn’t have to sell anything. I’ve been through that and it really does suck.

I have a brother-in-law who worked for AT&T and for awhile worked at Lilly. He’s no longer with them though.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I’d sell a Corvette or two first. ;)

You could then change your name to Skyhawk Don.

I’m glad to hear you got a job and didn’t have to sell anything. I’ve been through that and it really does suck.

I have a brother-in-law who worked for AT&T and for awhile worked at Lilly. He’s no longer with them though.
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Yeah, at least one of the Corvettes would have had to go as well. No room for them without the hangar. Even though everything is paid for, the proper care and feeding of a plane is rather expensive as we all know. Being debt free and having a healthy emergency fund really paid off.
 
Stingray Don said:
Yeah, at least one of the Corvettes would have had to go as well. No room for them without the hangar. Even though everything is paid for, the proper care and feeding of a plane is rather expensive as we all know. Being debt free and having a healthy emergency fund really paid off.
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In my world, if you own a plane, you MUST have an emergency fund!
 
Stingray Don said:
Being debt free and having a healthy emergency fund really paid off.
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This is true of all stages of life.

I have laid it on my young adult kids that debt is the source of many of the pains of modern society. Credit cards must be paid off monthly. Don't borrow money for toys. Pay car payments to a dedicated savings account while the paid-for car you have is good, and then when it's time to replace the car you'll have the cash to buy it outright. Save 10% of gross through automatic transfer at your bank, and each year when you get a raise increase that by 1 percentage point. It's OK to borrow for a house, but pay additional principal every month. So far the oldest two have adopted that, with the third still in college. How many 22 year olds have FICO scores in the 800s?
 
By the way @Stingray Don , if my girlfriend is up for it, I think I'll be flying her and I down to your neck of the woods on Saturday, to Ricks/Eagle Creek. The AOPA had a nice write up on it.
 
tawood said:
By the way @Stingray Don , if my girlfriend is up for it, I think I'll be flying her and I down to your neck of the woods on Saturday, to Ricks/Eagle Creek. The AOPA had a nice write up on it.
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Yes, highly recommend Rick's. It is better during nice weather as it sits on Eagle Creek reservoir and you can sit outside and watch the boats. Ricks is just across the street from the airport, so no need for a courtesy car. Might want to check with the FBO, but I think they might have some landing/parking fees that can be waived with fuel purchase. Have fun!
 
I work for AT&T... 20 years now. Been surplused 3 times... the latest was this passed June... the irony is I started my career in the Charlotte Data Center and this last surplus put me, you guessed it, back in the same Data Center... so three years before retirement, I’m back where it all started. Knock on wood, I’ve never collected an unemployment check that whole time...
 
Congrats on the new position! I had a similar ownership crisis 4 years ago when my position at a state university in Michigan (no, not that one) was axed due to budget cuts. Worse, I was not informed until nearly all positions for the next year were already filled. After a bit of scrambling I managed to land another position, but had to pull up stakes and move, and lost the luxury of a private hangar. The crisis isn't completely over either because the cost of living in Vermont is a lot higher than in Michigan. But at least it pushed the decision to sell back a few years... and hopefully, a few more still.
 
FlySince9 said:
I work for AT&T... 20 years now. Been surplused 3 times... the latest was this passed June... the irony is I started my career in the Charlotte Data Center and this last surplus put me, you guessed it, back in the same Data Center... so three years before retirement, I’m back where it all started. Knock on wood, I’ve never collected an unemployment check that whole time...
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Yeah, I had been surplused several times over the years but always landed a new role. This time they just eliminated are whole office. I was just a few weeks shy of retirement benefits. Still a sore spot for me.
 
Stingray Don said:
Yeah, I had been surplused several times over the years but always landed a new role. This time they just eliminated are whole office. I was just a few weeks shy of retirement benefits. Still a sore spot for me.
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Yea if I hadn’t landed on my feet this time I would have missed the “modified 75 rule” by 3 weeks...
 
Stingray Don said:
Yeah, I had been surplused several times over the years but always landed a new role. This time they just eliminated are whole office. I was just a few weeks shy of retirement benefits. Still a sore spot for me.
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Ouch. That stinks. Lockheed Martin (and Martin Marietta before they were acquired) had a bad reputation for forcing people out shortly before retirement. Not sure if it's any better these days.
 
Stingray Don said:
This time they just eliminated are whole office. I was just a few weeks shy of retirement benefits. Still a sore spot for me.
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I'm sure it was just a coincidence, and you were the only one.

:rolleyes:
 
DaleB said:
I'm sure it was just a coincidence, and you were the only one.

:rolleyes:
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I use to wonder why they reorganized so often with only slightly different job titles/roles. I had several different titles the last few years and kept doing basically the same job. Then I realized that the poor performers and those close to retirement eligibility were always the ones left without a seat. AT&T use to be a great place to retire from. Not so much anymore, unless you are a senior executive.
 
Stingray Don said:
Yesterday I was offered a job with BC Forward (PMO for Eli Lilly) as a project manager.

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My very good friend formerly worked there as their general counsel. Good luck!

edit: I don't mean that sarcastically, and I don't mean to suggest that he left there because it was a bad company to work for. I just mean this in the positive light of starting a new job at a new company.
 
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Always good to have a healthy savings and minimal debt. We keep our debt to the truck payment and the mortgage. The truck is the first time I've had a vehicle payment, but it made sense and has actually decreased the monthly expenditure on vehicles since now we have 3 vehicles that pretty much just work. The nice thing is that if either of us lose our jobs, we won't lose our house or any vehicles. Reduces a huge amount of stress in life.
 
jsstevens said:
Ouch. That stinks. Lockheed Martin (and Martin Marietta before they were acquired) had a bad reputation for forcing people out shortly before retirement. Not sure if it's any better these days.
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That seems to be very common amongst large corporations, unfortunately. My current employer does this all the time (another large aerospace corporation). When I first graduated I interviewed at a small company. The owner knew I was also interviewing at the current large corporation I am at now. He warned me about that exact thing. Thought he might just be blowing smoke, but he was right on.
 
Ken Ibold said:
This is true of all stages of life.

I have laid it on my young adult kids that debt is the source of many of the pains of modern society. Credit cards must be paid off monthly. Don't borrow money for toys. Pay car payments to a dedicated savings account while the paid-for car you have is good, and then when it's time to replace the car you'll have the cash to buy it outright. Save 10% of gross through automatic transfer at your bank, and each year when you get a raise increase that by 1 percentage point. It's OK to borrow for a house, but pay additional principal every month. So far the oldest two have adopted that, with the third still in college. How many 22 year olds have FICO scores in the 800s?
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I want to like this and much of this is absolutely true(credit cards, borrowing for toys, saving, etc.). However, car payments and paying down the house faster is "depends". Depends on inflation, interest rates, and current tax policies. Also depends on how disciplined you are with the money.

First, you can get better deals on cars if you do NOT pay cash(dealers get some money from the lenders). Nothing stops you from paying off that loan in a month or two. However, in many cases(although that is changing now with rates climbing), the interest is lower than inflation and way lower than you could otherwise make with disciplined investment of that cash. Even if just using that cash for paying down mortgage faster. This is even more true for longer loans such as house purchase.

Paying down 3% cheap mortgage with today's more valuable dollars(rather than 20-year-from now 50% less valuable dollar) while missing out on potential 6-10% investment return is not the best financial strategy. Easiest and maybe safest, but not best.

Edit: Also, if you are using all available cash reserve to pay off/down a cheap loan or avoid taking the loan, you are setting yourself up for a potential disaster if you lose your income. Converting a car or a house equity into cash is a lot more difficult and expensive than having cash ready in an easy to liquidate brokerage account.

What's important is to be disciplined and not buy stuff you cannot afford(house, cars or anything else).

Having said all that, i am paying down my mortgage faster than i have to :).

https://financialmentor.com/investment-advice/pay-off-mortgage-early-or-invest/7478
 
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genna said:
I want to like this and much of this is absolutely true(credit cards, borrowing for toys, saving, etc.). However, car payments and paying down the house faster is "depends". Depends on inflation, interest rates, and current tax policies. Also depends on how disciplined you are with the money.

First, you can get better deals on cars if you do NOT pay cash(dealers get some money from the lenders). Nothing stops you from paying down that loan in a month or two. However, in many cases(although that is changing now with rates climbing), the interest is lower than inflation and way lower than you could otherwise make with disciplined investment of that cash. Even if just using that cash for paying down mortgage faster. This is even more true for longer loans such as house purchase.

Paying down 3% cheap mortgage with today's more valuable dollars(rather than 20-year-from now 50% less valuable dollar) while missing out on potential 6-10% investment return is not the best financial strategy. Easiest and maybe safest, but not best.
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I agree with you regarding the time value of money and all that, but that's a bit more sophistication than I'd expect from a young adult just starting out. Because while you CAN make more money investing the capital, you can also lose money investing the capital. The devil is in the details, and I'll get to that with the kids after they've come to terms with running their financial lives a little more. The gist of the message I've tried to get across to them is that "how much are the payments" is not a financial strategy.
 
Ken Ibold said:
I agree with you regarding the time value of money and all that, but that's a bit more sophistication than I'd expect from a young adult just starting out. Because while you CAN make more money investing the capital, you can also lose money investing the capital. The devil is in the details, and I'll get to that with the kids after they've come to terms with running their financial lives a little more. The gist of the message I've tried to get across to them is that "how much are the payments" is not a financial strategy.
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I agree with that too. I was going to add that this may be way too much for kids to comprehend, but forgot :)
 
genna said:
I want to like this and much of this is absolutely true(credit cards, borrowing for toys, saving, etc.). However, car payments and paying down the house faster is "depends". Depends on inflation, interest rates, and current tax policies. Also depends on how disciplined you are with the money.

First, you can get better deals on cars if you do NOT pay cash(dealers get some money from the lenders). Nothing stops you from paying off that loan in a month or two. However, in many cases(although that is changing now with rates climbing), the interest is lower than inflation and way lower than you could otherwise make with disciplined investment of that cash. Even if just using that cash for paying down mortgage faster. This is even more true for longer loans such as house purchase.

Paying down 3% cheap mortgage with today's more valuable dollars(rather than 20-year-from now 50% less valuable dollar) while missing out on potential 6-10% investment return is not the best financial strategy. Easiest and maybe safest, but not best.

Edit: Also, if you are using all available cash reserve to pay off/down a cheap loan or avoid taking the loan, you are setting yourself up for a potential disaster if you lose your income. Converting a car or a house equity into cash is a lot more difficult and expensive than having cash ready in an easy to liquidate brokerage account.

What's important is to be disciplined and not buy stuff you cannot afford(house, cars or anything else).

Having said all that, i am paying down my mortgage faster than i have to :).

https://financialmentor.com/investment-advice/pay-off-mortgage-early-or-invest/7478
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While all of this is true, there's a lot to be said for simplification of life. If I won the lotto, first thing I'd do is pay off the house and the truck.

Then I'd call up some contractors to build my hangar. :)
 
Stingray Don said:
Yeah, I had been surplused several times over the years but always landed a new role. This time they just eliminated are whole office. I was just a few weeks shy of retirement benefits. Still a sore spot for me.
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Lockheed did that back in the late 80s...got taken to court and lost (age discrimination). Did it again a few years ago, nobody blinked but many of us remembered and wondered why no repercussions.
 
jsstevens said:
Ouch. That stinks. Lockheed Martin (and Martin Marietta before they were acquired) had a bad reputation for forcing people out shortly before retirement. Not sure if it's any better these days.
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We're trying to convince people to stay. The "gray tsunami" of retirements is well under way, and we have lots of new contracts, so we're hiring like crazy. Send me a resume!
 
Stingray Don said:
This time they just eliminated are whole office. I was just a few weeks shy of retirement benefits. Still a sore spot for me.
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I bet it is a sore spot.

Do good for the company and then they kick yer butt out with nothing.

The main reason I quit making others rich.
 
Good that it worked out for you. . .hope you don't have to go through it again.

I was private industry IT for a long time and I adopted a mercenary attitude early on - whoever you work for, you are selling a service; I know the difference between a contractor and an employee, in the legal sense, but in the practical sense, I learned to behave with a contractor's mindset. I gave my best effort, but walked away without a second thought, for better situations, when the opportunities arose.

Easy to say, of course - job changes are stressful as heck, and I wasn't cavalier about bolting. But when it made sense, I did it.
 
Glad you were able to find something and didn't have to resort to selling the plane or one of the Stingrays. And darned glad to read that you had a good amount of savings put away for this "rainy day" event.
 
jsstevens said:
Ouch. That stinks. Lockheed Martin (and Martin Marietta before they were acquired) had a bad reputation for forcing people out shortly before retirement. Not sure if it's any better these days.
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It's not. It just happened to my husband. He was "reorganized" out earlier this year. He turns 64 in December. Age discrimination pure and simple. Big severance package in exchange for not suing for age discrimination. *******s actually bolded that paragraph indicating that that's exactly what it was. We knew it and they knew it and their lawyers bolded it so everyone would clearly know that's exactly what they were doing.
 
jsstevens said:
Ouch. That stinks. Lockheed Martin (and Martin Marietta before they were acquired) had a bad reputation for forcing people out shortly before retirement. Not sure if it's any better these days.
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I left Martin Marietta Denver Aerospace 35 years ago, so I can't really say.

genna said:
First, you can get better deals on cars if you do NOT pay cash(dealers get some money from the lenders). Nothing stops you from paying off that loan in a month or two. However, in many cases(although that is changing now with rates climbing), the interest is lower than inflation and way lower than you could otherwise make with disciplined investment of that cash. Even if just using that cash for paying down mortgage faster. This is even more true for longer loans such as house purchase.
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Can't do any better than we did in 2013 when Ford was offering 0% interest for 5 years. Sure, I'll play with your money!

Half Fast said:
We're trying to convince people to stay. The "gray tsunami" of retirements is well under way, and we have lots of new contracts, so we're hiring like crazy. Send me a resume!
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I retired a bit over 3 years ago. Early, but it was that or move about 2 1/2 years before I planned on retiring. Intel also had the "do not sue us" clause in the separation package. If they hadn't sold DuPont I'd be retired now anyway. The window I had started when the house was paid off (15 year mortgage) and ended the day I turned 66. That was last spring, so regardless of the early retirement or not, I'd be free now.

Retire! It's wonderful. I'm still active in a few standards committees and consult a bit, but primarily I'm retired. It's very nice not having to get up at 6:30 in the morning to drive into the office. I can't find a single negative thing to say about being retired.
 
Rushie said:
It's not. It just happened to my husband. He was "reorganized" out earlier this year. He turns 64 in December. Age discrimination pure and simple. Big severance package in exchange for not suing for age discrimination. *******s actually bolded that paragraph indicating that that's exactly what it was. We knew it and they knew it and their lawyers bolded it so everyone would clearly know that's exactly what they were doing.
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Wow. But I guess they know the numbers and have it worked out pretty well. They know how much to offer in a severance that will result in acceptance of the deal versus suing while still saving money over what they’d pay over the term of one’s retirement. For the poor employee it’s certain money in hand versus maybe no money from a lawsuit. For the company it’s money saved over the long run. Cha Ching.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Wow. But I guess they know the numbers and have it worked out pretty well. They know how much to offer in a severance that will result in acceptance of the deal versus suing while still saving money over what they’d pay over the term of one’s retirement. For the poor employee it’s certain money in hand versus maybe no money from a lawsuit. For the company it’s money saved over the long run. Cha Ching.
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And, those who get severances should count themselves lucky. Many companies just cut you, period. And, when they also get rid of some young deadwood in the same round of cutbacks, it's much harder to make the age discrimination dog hunt.
 
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