Well here goes nothing...career change about to begin

gsengle said:
Temporarily
Click to expand...

Yes, but this requires people to understand delayed gratification and play the long game for the payoff down the line.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of Veruca Salts out there who want it now.
 
texasclouds said:
Is regional reserve guaranteed at least 75 hours per month pay regardless if you actually pilot that many hours? Or is that sonething i read about the big boys?
Click to expand...

Depends on the airline, each one has their own minimum monthly guarantee. It was 65 hours when I was at Compass.
 
Well, the guy did acknowledge his experience wasn't all-encompassing, in the video. I relate a lot to his enjoyment for both instruction and piston GA access. It really disappoints me that a comfortable living can't be readily be derived from it in the civilian world. Even in the turbine side of the house, solid paying instruction gigs are unicorns. One of the reasons I continue to enjoy my specific position in the military is that it allows me the privilege to derive a six figure income and in-kind retirement from career instructing. I feel I contribute in a capacity I genuinely enjoy, and my contributions are respected and compensated adequately. I just never felt that level of buy-in in the CFI world, which is why I don't exercise the privileges anymore and strongly considering letting it [certs] go.

At any rate, no dog in the fight, but from my vantage point, the manning/scheduling utlization seen at some of the regionals seems rather unbalanced, almost to a fault. Frankly, I'm surprised those pairings don't yield a ton of fatigue calls.

Where it gets interesting is in the perverse incentives that lead to the kind of ladder pulling where junior life rules (like narrowbody/domestic RSV for instance) get traded so the senior CA can have an extra dollar. In the pay vs time off continuum we all acknowledge is the main draw (flexibility) of the airline gig, that seems rather one-sided for a "trade". World of things are vs things should be type of thing I suppose.
 
Now why would an airline be pushing to create more captains than they need of there is no movement?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
JC150 said:
Come sit reserve at PSA. You'll see why all the forced upgrade guys are bailing for places like Kalitta, Sun Country, etc. There's no movement. Some guys will flow to American Mainline before ever holding a line again.
Click to expand...
Well... I’m sitting reserve at PSA as FO and I’m taking first available upgrade. I agree with and understand everything you are saying.
Just don’t forget it wasn’t that long ago many were having to wait 8-12 years just to upgrade to a reserve captain slot at many regional airlines and some guys were lucky enough to have their airline shut down never having held a captains seat.
There are many things that need to improve here but there are also lots of opportunities. It damn sure could be worse.
 
Don’t get paid for travel time and don’t get reimbursed for hotels???
 
FlyingTiger said:
Is hot reserve the same as short call of something different?
Click to expand...
We have ready reserve at my airline where we have to be at the gate within 15 minutes after the call from Crew Scheduling. Our short call in NYC is 2.5 hours.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I am not getting the context for this. Can you point to a post?

The airline is not on the hook for a pilot’s commuting expenses. That is just the cost of living somewhere other than a domicile.
Click to expand...

I believe he said that in the video. He commuted from FL to Charlotte and was talking about commuting expenses I believe.
 
So basically if you are a commuter and are on reserve, you need to be at your home base, spending money on a hotel and you may never get called to fly? Any idea how much of the pilot community commutes?
 
Well, most of the commuters that are on reserve have a crash pad at the domicile. Kind of like a home away from home. They share with several other pilots to help with the cost.

Not sure how many do it, but it is quite a few.
 
I guess if I ever make the move I could domicile in ORD and crash at my parents. That sounds kinda sad though.
 
Good lord, this sure took off.

So, JC150 thanks for writing such a detailed post, at least it's one I don't have to automatically discount (like so many which are less than two sentences that just say this place sucks don't come here), and it's definitely something to take into consideration, however just because that has been the case in the past or the present, doesn't mean it's going to be the case down the road. In any event, given what you've said it still doesn't mean one shouldn't go to PSA, or that it's a bad place to work. Where else would you be right now if not PSA?? What regional airline is significantly better?

This is the problem I think with any of the regional airlines. First and foremost, its a regional airline, they ALL are going to suck in one way or another, but you have to figure out what kind of suck you want to put up with. Second, it seems to be incredibly dynamic, the highest paying "best airline" today could turn around and be a total ****show in a year or two down the road. It's a roll of the dice, and while I do get some complaints people make, good god some people just need to suck it up and stop being such a baby. I was enlisted military working 12 hour shifts, in many cases stuck on nights for 6 months or longer making peanuts, especially starting out. Did it suck?? Yeah, but I got through it and eventually survived and got a much higher paying job. At the end of the day, you are paid to fly a multi-million dollar aircraft around working 14-16 days a month and getting paid a hell of a lot more than people were at the regionals only a decade earlier.

I guess I'm coming at this from a different angle than a lot of people in that 1. I know being an airline pilot isn't some glamorous job, 2. I know there are going to be tough times, and 3. I already had a successful decent paying career and I have been MISERABLE the last 4-5 years. A lot of the people that only want to complain left and right I feel like are fresh out of school types who have never had another job besides maybe flipping burgers or bar tending in college.

It's certainly not all sunshine rainbows and kittens, at the end of the day its a JOB, its a way to make money. Are there higher paying jobs out there? Absolutely. Are there more secure jobs out there? In some cases yes, but in many no. At the end of the day we get paid to do something we love to do, and if you don't love to do it you should probably find something else that makes you happier. I'd be willing to bet a loooot of money that 95% of pilots out there who complain about their job wouldn't last a year doing what I've been doing before they were begging for their old job back.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I am not getting the context for this. Can you point to a post?

The airline is not on the hook for a pilot’s commuting expenses. That is just the cost of living somewhere other than a domicile.
Click to expand...

The pilot seems to complaining about his travel costs. If he’s not commuting to somewhere other than his home base, I’m not sure what the issue is. If you’re not gonna live local, kinda have to commute out of pocket.

Either way, sounds like a PITA. Also sounds like fatigue issues rolling into his shift after spending the day commuting.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
So basically if you are a commuter and are on reserve, you need to be at your home base, spending money on a hotel and you may never get called to fly? Any idea how much of the pilot community commutes?
Click to expand...

About 70% of the crew force at my current airline are commuters.

i am a commuter. I have a crash pad at my domicile, and pay about $350 per month for a private room and a shared bathroom in a residential house owned by a Captain who runs the place.

Most months I spend about 4 or 5 nights per month there. Occasionally when I bid reserve I will spend more nights there.

When I was at the regionals just a handful of years ago, several airlines (including mine, Compass) were providing pilots with a certain number of "commuter hotel" stays per month. In other words, if you coordinated beforehand, the company would pay for the hotel stays. The number at Compass was 6, IIRC. That's not enough to cover a month of reserve by a long shot, but that's enough to cover pre-and post-trip stays connected with commutes.
 
Last edited:
gsengle said:
Now why would an airline be pushing to create more captains than they need of there is no movement?
Click to expand...

PSA has more than doubled their fleet size in the last couple years. Not sure of the specific numbers, but they are just hitting the end of a huge expansion.

New jets simply means new manning positions to be filled (something like 10 crew members per airframe, depending on how they're utilized) -- it does not mean moving up the seniority list away from the poor schedules.
 
One of the problems with the aa owned regionals is also one of the good things ... the flow.

The leadership in pilot management, union and experienced pilots at the top are being skimmed off every month from flow and outside attrition. There is also a lot of outside attrition from the right seat right around the time of forced upgrade. Lots of guys leaving for LCC’s and other regionals to avoid the forced upgrade. As the fleet size stabilizes it will get better but the real issue is retention. Will be interesting to see what happens in the next year.
 
Well, here is an update so far. The biggest takeaway? I think I made a huge mistake staying here in Baltimore to instruct. I'm currently barely able to get 15-20 hours a week billable time in, and so far this week I have 0. Really very frustrating, I'm rapidly going broke and need to put together a plan B because this just isn't going to work.

Moving somewhere is going to suck because I just moved, I'm not sure how realistic that is at this point so I guess I need to try and find another job and bump instructing back down to part time again, which sort of defeats the whole purpose. Not feeling so great about things right now, but hey I guess that's life!
 
Just remember the answer to the old question about how do you get rid of a CFI?

You pay for the pizza and give him a tip.


I've never done it, but instructing is feast or famine from what I understand. Moving might be a solution, but I wouldn't do it unless it was a solid job. Instead, I'd look at a part time job (see humor above) and keep trying to build those hours up until you get marketable for a first "real" job.
 
Anymouse said:
Just remember the answer to the old question about how do you get rid of a CFI?

You pay for the pizza and give him a tip.


I've never done it, but instructing is feast or famine from what I understand. Moving might be a solution, but I wouldn't do it unless it was a solid job. Instead, I'd look at a part time job (see humor above) and keep trying to build those hours up until you get marketable for a first "real" job.
Click to expand...
I see instructing as a possible retirement job for some (perhaps even me!) unless one hooks up with a 141 school.
 
FLYGUYRY said:
...I turn 35 at the end of next month, many would probably say I'm too old, but the way I see it I still have 30 years to do what I love. I'm single with no kids, hell if I can't make it happen who can.

Thanks for the encouragement!
Click to expand...

Dude, you're a youngin yet. When aviation went in the crapper just as I left the military, and I had 2 kids to put through college and little opportunity, I went back to school at age 43, started a new career at 46 and now at age 59, I'm getting ready to start my 3rd career.

You just do you and don't worry about the number of candles on the birthday cake!
 
wilkersk said:
Dude, you're a youngin yet. When aviation went in the crapper just as I left the military, and I had 2 kids to put through college and little opportunity, I went back to school at age 43, started a new career at 46 and now at age 59, I'm getting ready to start my 3rd career.

You just do you and don't worry about the number of candles on the birthday cake!
Click to expand...

Well said. Folks like you are a real inspiration to those who want to pursue alternative careers.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
I see instructing as a possible retirement job for some (perhaps even me!) unless one hooks up with a 141 school.
Click to expand...

My IR instructor was a retired guy who has flight instructed for many many years. If you can get the clientele, you can make a pretty good living as an independent instructor. A friend of mine did independent instruction to build his hours and I was amazed at what he said he was making a year.
 
Third post you said most instructors were getting 80 hours a month. Sounds like you were right on track up until this week. You’re always going to have weeks that are slower than others but just have to push through. I’ve forgotten your ultimate goal but with the way things are these days it shouldn’t take long to be able to move on.
 
gsengle said:
Haha not even close to too old. Life’s an adventure. I made the change an 46 and fully intend to make it to the majors... congrats, sounds like you’re making all the right moves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
That's an inspiration. About to turn 43, and fully intend to do the same,
 
FLYGUYRY said:
Well, here is an update so far. The biggest takeaway? I think I made a huge mistake staying here in Baltimore to instruct. I'm currently barely able to get 15-20 hours a week billable time in, and so far this week I have 0. Really very frustrating, I'm rapidly going broke and need to put together a plan B because this just isn't going to work.

Moving somewhere is going to suck because I just moved, I'm not sure how realistic that is at this point so I guess I need to try and find another job and bump instructing back down to part time again, which sort of defeats the whole purpose. Not feeling so great about things right now, but hey I guess that's life!
Click to expand...

No that's not life, that's just the industry you want to make a living in. Moving and being gone, and not getting paid a damn for a long time, are part of the industry. Time building will require chasing hours, which requires moving if your location is not puppy mill friendly. Otherwise you'll have to accept the fact that it's gonna take longer in your current location to make it to 1500 hours, especially when money is an object.

But the "I'm gonna go broke" bit I don't really care for. In 2018 the information is out there period dot. No quibbling. Suggest you go read post #137 you lectured us all last month with.
 
It seems to me CFI work pays a ton of money, it just never passes through your pocket. Earning 1000 hours in one year is equivalent to renting the plane and flying yourself for a total of $130 x 1000 = $130,000 plus that $20-25k salary the school is letting you have to pay for your Ramen noodles.

What I don't understand is how the old timer CFIs are making it. They don't need the hours, and surely they are getting a better salary than the ATP pass through kids.
 
texasclouds said:
It seems to me CFI work pays a ton of money, it just never passes through your pocket. Earning 1000 hours in one year is equivalent to renting the plane and flying yourself for a total of $130 x 1000 = $130,000 plus that $20-25k salary the school is letting you have to pay for your Ramen noodles.

What I don't understand is how the old timer CFIs are making it. They don't need the hours, and surely they are getting a better salary than the ATP pass through kids.
Click to expand...

They aren't working for schools...they are working for themselves. That's why. When you charge $60-$70 /hr and you have little overhead you can do just fine (a good friend of mine made 80K/yr doing that before going to the airlines).

Maybe I am spoiled here in AZ, but it isn't hard to make a livable wage out here as a CFI. If you work for a school you can make $25-$35/hr (at least here in AZ). A good school you can bill ~140/hrs a month (that is NOT all flying time of course). Those are not BS numbers btw - those are actual numbers from the CFI I am currently flying with (also happens to be the Chief Pilot and used to own his own Part 61 school). If your making 20K as a CFI your doing something wrong IMO.
 
texasclouds said:
It seems to me CFI work pays a ton of money, it just never passes through your pocket. Earning 1000 hours in one year is equivalent to renting the plane and flying yourself for a total of $130 x 1000 = $130,000 plus that $20-25k salary the school is letting you have to pay for your Ramen noodles.

What I don't understand is how the old timer CFIs are making it. They don't need the hours, and surely they are getting a better salary than the ATP pass through kids.
Click to expand...
Rule of thumb for companies is that staff salary is about one third of billing rate. The other two-thirds go toward overhead such as rent, utilities, and benefits, plus a percentage for profit. The profit percentage may be 10-20%, give or take. If you're working for yourself, then you're typically not paying for a commercial building, and salary includes profit by definition.
 
CC268 said:
They aren't working for schools...they are working for themselves. That's why. When you charge $60-$70 /hr and you have little overhead you can do just fine (a good friend of mine made 80K/yr doing that before going to the airlines).

Maybe I am spoiled here in AZ, but it isn't hard to make a livable wage out here as a CFI. If you work for a school you can make $25-$35/hr (at least here in AZ). A good school you can bill ~140/hrs a month (that is NOT all flying time of course). Those are not BS numbers btw - those are actual numbers from the CFI I am currently flying with (also happens to be the Chief Pilot and used to own his own Part 61 school). If your making 20K as a CFI your doing something wrong IMO.
Click to expand...

Our school charges $40/hr instruction using their rental plane or $50/hr using your own plane. I was told that the CFIs were only making $20-25,000 per year salary and were expected to be in the office at least 40 hrs per week. The two main young guys are there 6 days a week and will have gone from getting CFI to 1500 hours within one year.
 
texasclouds said:
Our school charges $40/hr instruction using their rental plane or $50/hr using your own plane. I was told that the CFIs were only making $20-25,000 per year salary and were expected to be in the office at least 40 hrs per week. The two main young guys are there 6 days a week and will have gone from getting CFI to 1500 hours within one year.
Click to expand...

At those rates, I believe it. My point was that you can make significantly more money by providing instruction independent of a school. That of course, comes with its own set of challenges. If they are getting their hours in one year, that is what is important IMO. I wouldn't go into CFI'ing with the expectation that I am going to make a ton of money. That said, what you make is going to be very dependent upon where your at of course. A small town in TX probably isn't going to have the demand that a huge metropolitan area may have like Phoenix, AZ.
 
hindsight2020 said:
No that's not life, that's just the industry you want to make a living in. Moving and being gone, and not getting paid a damn for a long time, are part of the industry. Time building will require chasing hours, which requires moving if your location is not puppy mill friendly. Otherwise you'll have to accept the fact that it's gonna take longer in your current location to make it to 1500 hours, especially when money is an object.

But the "I'm gonna go broke" bit I don't really care for. In 2018 the information is out there period dot. No quibbling. Suggest you go read post #137 you lectured us all last month with.
Click to expand...

Ok Mr. grumpy pants. First off, I was assured I'd get about 120 billable and 70-80 flight hours per month, so no actually the information that I got wasn't what was presented to me. There is a big difference between 60 billable and 120 billable, and I might not be the best at math but I think that's about 50% of what I was told I could expect. How would you be doing right now if you were making 50% less than what you were told to expect? Hmmm ...and no I don't need to revisit my own post with my own thoughts, but I appreciate the advice. This is still 100x better than what I was doing before, I was merely posting an update to MY thread about MY journey. If you don't like it you don't have to read it. Thank you for your concern :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top