Researching Auto-pilot options for Cherokee 180?

Cherokee Lover

Cherokee Lover

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Jimbo
I am soliciting experienced recommendations for purchasing a 2-axis auto-pilot system for a 1968 Cherokee 180? Have no idea what to buy or what to budget for?

Help!!!
 
I was planning on somewhere in the neighborhood $5k to $8k...but not hard over on that. Would I be able to get a decent system for that range?
 
This airplane is gorgeous and fulfills my mission. I searched high and low to find this unique one. Just need the AP.
 
Cherokee Lover said:
I was planning on somewhere in the neighborhood $5k to $8k...but not hard over on that. Would I be able to get a decent system for that range?
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Frankly, no. You'd be lucky to get one installed for 2x that.
 
The best options are the most recent. It used to be that the S-TEC 30 was the best deal you could get on 2-axis, and that was altitude hold only and cost well into the 5 figure range.

These days, the new hotness is the Garmin GFC 500, which is sub-$10K (but probably over with installation) and works with a G5. If you have a Garmin 430/530/650/750, a pair of G5s and a GFC 500 will give you a much more capable setup than you could even buy a couple years ago, for a lower price to boot.

There are other new autopilots in the last couple of years as well.
 
The TruTrak or Trio STCs are your best option for that price range but will likely cost a few AMU more unless you can do the installation.
 
Cherokee Lover said:
I was planning on somewhere in the neighborhood $5k to $8k...but not hard over on that. Would I be able to get a decent system for that range?
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Purchase/Install budget needs to double in order to get a capable AP that will be of decent utility in IFR flight.
 
The S-TEC 30 is a nice unit (I have an S-TEC 20, which is similar without altitude hold), but will be $10K or more to install. You might want to take a look at the new Trio autopilot, which retails for around $3000 or less, and is 2-axis. There is an STC for Piper installations. You should be able to install that for $6K or so I would think. If I were installing one today, that is what I would strongly consider.
 
As mentioned by Kent.... A good AP is just one part of a valuable equation. The other part is a good Navigator like the Garmin GNS x30's, Garmin GTN x50, the CNX80/Garmin480, Avidyne 440/540/550.

Do you already have one of these?

A final part of the equation is the ability to do GPSS steering.
 
Trutrak..$5100 plus Install. And if you are handy and have the access to an IA install yourself. I did mine in about 26ish hours. So I have less than 6k invested in mine. I love mine..like love it. And my GX60 provides gpss comands so life is easy.

Getting a faster plane isn't worth it unless you need that speed and fly it often. Trust me I got the quotes for insurance, maintenance cost, and acquisition cost to get you 30 minutes faster. No thanks...but this thread isn't about that. Haha I really believe the buy your last plane first is because upgrading isn't worth it.. UNLESS you fly ALOT!
 
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bradg33 said:
Frankly, no. You'd be lucky to get one installed for 2x that.
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Someone posted here that their first crack at installing one was 55 hours, while others said 35 hours is about right (probably not on your first try) so about $4K-$5K for the install. The GFC 500 with G5 instrument, pitch, roll, and pitch trim servos is $9K, so in the neighborhood of $13K-$14K installed for the complete system including the G5.
 
A caution with either TruTrak or Trio; neither can fly a heading, just a GPS magenta line. If you're flying IFR, flying a heading is important in following radar vectors.

Even VFR, I had a flight last month VFR w/flight following where I was vectored several times in 45 minutes. It was great to just twist the heading indicator bug and leave the GPS alone so my flight plan remained undisturbed.
 
True..they fly the magenta line. But you can go into track mode and turn to a heading and it will follow that track. There are ways around. Also with the Aspen E5 and the G5 once it's approved they will follow a heading from my understanding.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Someone posted here that their first crack at installing one was 55 hours, while others said 35 hours is about right (probably not on your first try) so about $4K-$5K for the install. The GFC 500 with G5 instrument, pitch, roll, and pitch trim servos is $9K, so in the neighborhood of $13K-$14K installed for the complete system including the G5.
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just the GFC 500 with electric pitch trim is about 15k installed, does NOT include the G5
 
WannFly said:
just the GFC 500 with electric pitch trim is about 15k installed, does NOT include the G5
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The G5 is included in the price of the GFC 500, as it is an integral part of the system (and it says so on Garmin's site). You can't install a GFC 500 without installing a G5 - The G5 is actually the brains of the autopilot, the piece with all the buttons is just a mode controller (ie a thing with buttons ;) ).
 
NordicDave said:
A caution with either TruTrak or Trio; neither can fly a heading, just a GPS magenta line. If you're flying IFR, flying a heading is important in following radar vectors.
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This is not accurate. I have personally flown a TruTrak in a 177B and the GPS didn't even have a database in it and it could not even generate a magenta line.

  • It will fly any GPS track you want which can be selected two different ways.
    • One way is by using the knob on the autopilot to select a desired GPS track (so basically identical to using a heading bug)
    • Pressing holding the CWS button then turning to desired heading/track and releasing the CWS button.
It also flies fine as a wing lever without any GPS.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
The G5 is included in the price of the GFC 500, as it is an integral part of the system (and it says so on Garmin's site). You can't install a GFC 500 without installing a G5 - The G5 is actually the brains of the autopilot, the piece with all the buttons is just a mode controller (ie a thing with buttons ;) ).
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the G5 price is not included with GFC 500
 
flyingcheesehead said:
The G5 is included in the price of the GFC 500, as it is an integral part of the system (and it says so on Garmin's site). You can't install a GFC 500 without installing a G5 - The G5 is actually the brains of the autopilot, the piece with all the buttons is just a mode controller (ie a thing with buttons ;) ).
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G5 pricing is separate from this

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flyingcheesehead said:
The G5 is included in the price of the GFC 500, as it is an integral part of the system (and it says so on Garmin's site).
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From Garmin Website "Leverages certificated G5 electronic flight instrument1, G500 or G500 TXi2 for input and display of altitude preselect, heading, vertical speed, airspeed target and flight director cues" then in the fine print below "¹Required. G5 sold separately."

If the G5 were included, I'd be thinking about how to replace my current AP.
 
Trutrak is the only option at that budget. A basic GFC500 installed (with no existing G5s) is going to be over $9k just for the equipment.
 
just an FYI, i installed dual G5 last spring, it was about 8k installed and the quote for the GFC 500 with electric pitch trim servo is 15k (installed)
 
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For your budget the tru track or trio are your realistic choices.
 
WannFly said:
just an FYI, i installed dual G5 last spring, it was about 8k installed and the quote for the GFC 500 with electric pitch trim servo is 15k (installed)
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so $23k total installed for dual G5's and the GFC500??

(@texasag93)
 
best economical option.....sell it. Reason #1 I sold my Cherokee Six and bought my Bonanza....I wanted a full blown autopilot with altitude hold and GPSS tracking.

If you are that emotionally attached to it.....wait and go for the Dynon Skyview package that includes the autopilot for $2K.
 
WannFly said:
just an FYI, i installed dual G5 last spring, it was about 8k installed and the quote for the GFC 500 with electric pitch trim servo is 15k (installed)
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Yep that is basically spot on with my neighbor who just put dual G5’s in and the GFC500 into his 182...it was like ~23k. He said it’s unbelievable though...he’s a retired United pilot and he made the comment that it was more capable than a lot of the autopilots he ever flew lol
 
Man these things are expensive. I’m glad our club plane already has one.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
best economical option.....sell it. Reason #1 I sold my Cherokee Six and bought my Bonanza....I wanted a full blown autopilot with altitude hold and GPSS tracking.

If you are that emotionally attached to it.....wait and go for the Dynon Skyview package that includes the autopilot for $2K.
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Makes sense if you don’t have anything and want to get a glass panel with AP and engine monitor. I haven’t seen the actual install price on that though and their marketing statement of install it in 40 hrs or less is something I just don’t believe
 
WannFly said:
Makes sense if you don’t have anything and want to get a glass panel with AP and engine monitor. I haven’t seen the actual install price on that though and their marketing statement of install it in 40 hrs or less is something I just don’t believe
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I’m waiting. I’m hoping to save and install that setup in the Bonanza. It will get better with time and more install stories with real costs will come out.
 
WannFly said:
Yupp, I haven’t found a better quote yet
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Thanks... there is some discussion about doing this route for a club airplane. Having this real world cost estimate is helpful.
 
Really wanted to thank everybody for all the valuable information you all have provided!!! Forums like these are invaluable to me!

Like I said...looking at $5k to $8k because I had no idea of ball park costs and capabilities. Now...I can plan accordingly. From what I have read looks like the Garmin GFC 500 would be what I would lean towards? I also researched and validated that the G5 is a separate $2195.

As far as recommendations for buying a pre-equipped plane with the AP...probably good advice for folks with a different mission. Basically, I fly me and my wife from Central GA to areas all over FL. I love the PA-28 because of the useful load. As far as speed...chose the Cherokee because it's fast enough for my <2 hour flights, carries a horse, very stable for a relatively new pilot (Me...:), and getting to Destin, FL from Bonaire, GA is a little over an hour at 120 kts.

Also...I plan on finishing my IFR training next year and need this AP...especially in my area where morning IFR is constant!

Why I am hard over on keeping this plane? Bought in CA about 9 months ago, less than 3k airframe hours on a '68 Cherokee (Sat preserved for 18 years) , only Cherokee I ever heard of with a CSP (STC), engine overhauled by Corona Engines in CA with <70 hours SMOH when i bought her, brand new paint job (2-tone), new leather interior with all Piper logos, all new glass, G430W, G496 also, 4 Cyl engine analyzer, every Knots 2U speed mod heard of (Even wing cuffs and stab gap seals). Yeah...I was on a plane out to CA the day after I saw her on Controller...and fell in love on the spot.
 
well then....you're smitten. You've obviously got the money and not worried about recouping an investment.
 
Agreed!!! I guess it all comes down to what you want? My friend took me up this weekend in his twin Baron. Would I love to have a 185kt twin? Absolutely!

Do I want the $$$ of having the extra 65 kts? No! Will I eat about $8-10k of the $15k if I sold after the AP install? Probably.

Will I get 10+ years outta this girl before my medical is declined...geez i hope so...:(
 
I would not buy a legacy autopilot equipped airplane right now, unless the autopilot is depreciated to near zero $ in the price. Just one servo repair will make you cry and want a GFC500/Trutrak. Both of those, you can buy a brand new servo for under $2k, not the case for the competition. A brand new gyro for the GFC500 is under $2k.
 
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Cherokee Lover said:
Really wanted to thank everybody for all the valuable information you all have provided!!! Forums like these are invaluable to me!

Like I said...looking at $5k to $8k because I had no idea of ball park costs and capabilities. Now...I can plan accordingly. From what I have read looks like the Garmin GFC 500 would be what I would lean towards? I also researched and validated that the G5 is a separate $2195.

As far as recommendations for buying a pre-equipped plane with the AP...probably good advice for folks with a different mission. Basically, I fly me and my wife from Central GA to areas all over FL. I love the PA-28 because of the useful load. As far as speed...chose the Cherokee because it's fast enough for my <2 hour flights, carries a horse, very stable for a relatively new pilot (Me...:), and getting to Destin, FL from Bonaire, GA is a little over an hour at 120 kts.

Also...I plan on finishing my IFR training next year and need this AP...especially in my area where morning IFR is constant!

Why I am hard over on keeping this plane? Bought in CA about 9 months ago, less than 3k airframe hours on a '68 Cherokee (Sat preserved for 18 years) , only Cherokee I ever heard of with a CSP (STC), engine overhauled by Corona Engines in CA with <70 hours SMOH when i bought her, brand new paint job (2-tone), new leather interior with all Piper logos, all new glass, G430W, G496 also, 4 Cyl engine analyzer, every Knots 2U speed mod heard of (Even wing cuffs and stab gap seals). Yeah...I was on a plane out to CA the day after I saw her on Controller...and fell in love on the spot.
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WOW that sounds like a sweet bird. pic pls.
mine is not in her best shape when it comes to interior and exterior but she is very capable and I am probably just going to upgrade her than by something else. something I am thinking about , but that's for a diff thread
 
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