Should I go to College?

[PaulS]

Forseth11, two things, the first I've said many times before, but here you go, talk is cheap, action speaks volumes. You sound like an action guy and that is good, although we only know you through talk (what you write) if you are an action guy you will do well. Second, work smart. You are young, learn, listen to advice, but think for yourself.

I would advise getting the 4 year degree right away. You are young, get the degree, then work toward your goal, you will have plenty of time to work ahead of you. Unless of course you have the next google, twitter, facebook idea, then go for it, what do I know?

 

[asicer]

Keep in mind that you will very likely build some interesting/important business contacts getting your bachelors/masters that you wouldn't otherwise if you quit college.

 

[kath]

What do you teach by the way? Does it have to do with 19th Century French Literature?

No, the only thing worse: Physics.
So, "this class is just pointless torment!" is something I hear a lot, from the biologists and engineers.

I started out college trying to decide between CS and physics as a major; took courses in both. An inspirational professor swayed me to the dark side. <Follow your inspiration!>
I have no regrets about my excessively-overcredentialed education, except that I never learned a foreign language.
Even now that I'm older and entrenched in a career, I feel like I could (if I really wanted to) bag it all and go use my good ol' physics degree to do just about anything. <Whatever gives you that feeling!>

Oh, to be young again... <sigh>

 

[Ben2k9]

Although a pretty competitive space, seems like software offers more future opportunity than an “aviation business”.

Anything I can think of in aviation is somewhat capital intensive, which it doesn’t sound like you are flush with.

Get the bachelors and focus on technology if you want to make money. Nobody is going to want to go to flight school with a 20 year old guy running an old C150.

 

[forseth11]

I will share some of my experience with you...

I was, probably like you, someone who was good with computers in high school. I enjoyed working with technology so it just made sense to get a computer science degree. So I went to college and got my BS in computer science. Your school may vary from mine but most of the classes were heavily geared towards coding. We had data structures, database courses, a Unix course, and a few courses on basic hardware level stuff that didn't really leave you knowing how to be an assembly programmer but at least gave you a background so you understood how it worked.

In short, if you already know how to code you can probably skip 2/3 of it. Do you know your way around linux? Can you write shell scripts? Do you understand enough about programming to pick up an unfamiliar language? If you can say yes to all of these things then what are you going to college for? To say you have the degree? The college experience? Might as well major in something else you have interest in and maybe minor in CS just to cover your bases. If you really have paid coding experience that may well be worth more than a degree- a lot of my classmates barely could code. Good employers know that, they want people who know what they're doing more than people with a degree. A lot of them require at least an associates to get in the door, I assume because HR insists but once you get in the door it may not matter. Computer skills are actually pretty universal btw, the specific applications and programming languages change but the basic concepts don't, your education isn't that perishable. At most you'll need to take a couple weeks to a month to learn the new language/app.

I went the traditional route, I got my degree and I took a job in my field that payed the best in an area I was willing to live. Coding. I was one of the better programmers in my college classes... professors even told me as much. I actually really was/am good it. I don't say this to brag but to illustrate a point. One, while I was good at it I really didn't like it that much. I got into computers because I like building stuff- putting systems together and seeing what I can make them do/tinkering/etc. What you're probably going to do for real is some kind of data processing- moving data between a database and some entry/lookup screen. Interesting for a bit but... do it every day from your cubicle without really interacting with anyone for a few years and it becomes torture. Ahh but I'm a good coder so I'll get promoted out right? Nahh, doesn't work that way. If you're a good coder they want to keep your right in that cubicle because you're the only one who can knock out their quick changes in a short period. People who are good communicators get promoted, being skilled at your job just means they want to keep you in that job.

Anyway after about 5 years of stoically sitting in the chair in my cubicle rearranging the fields in the payroll manager's lookup screens, reformatting automated reports, and making the yearly changes in file formats that every state tax agency seemed to rotate constantly I couldn't stand it. Work was a matter of walking in the door when I had to be there and counting the seconds until I could leave. Honestly I'd probably have been fired if I hadn't become so efficient at doing my job... I'd spend hours dicking around because my brain was so tired of doing this I couldn't force myself to pay attention to it until the last minute. Fortunately I could bash out a program change at lighting speed by that point and management never paid attention so it didn't matter.

I got lucky and basically inherited a rental business around that time. Couldn't bail out fast enough. Right now I'm just getting back into IT, basically as an all purpose computer guy for small organizations that need someone but can't afford to hire a full time IT guy. Turns out I didn't hate computers, I just hated working for someone else doing the same exact thing every day. Working for yourself as you own boss is far more rewarding and far more pleasant than working for someone else will ever be, I will never go back. Could I have ever lived on this without my good fortune at the right time? IDK, probably not... at least not as well but I'm just getting rolling here so who knows. Health insurance is also god awfully expensive now if you have to buy it on your own... unless your income is really low and you qualify for subsidies.

I guess the final word is you're going to have to do something to support yourself and you're going to spend most of your waking hours doing it so figure out what you really want not what is safe and seems to pay well and pursue it. Oh and don't go into debt chasing a degree just to have the degree.

My answers to those questions: yes, limited yes, very yes

I am doing it because I love it, and I am hoping it will come easier because I know a lot already.

It makes perfect sense about the good person staying in the job they need them at, and I am sorry to hear that.

I understand the pay attention part. That sounds awful, and I know I would be there if I had to work all the time everyday.

The healthcare is another reason to start building now. I get to be on my parents until I am 26, so if I can get off the ground by then, that would be fantastic.

I will not go into debt for a degree. I just won't.

Thank you so much for the store and helpful advice!

 

[forseth11]

Forseth11, two things, the first I've said many times before, but here you go, talk is cheap, action speaks volumes. You sound like an action guy and that is good, although we only know you through talk (what you write) if you are an action guy you will do well. Second, work smart. You are young, learn, listen to advice, but think for yourself.

I would advise getting the 4 year degree right away. You are young, get the degree, then work toward your goal, you will have plenty of time to work ahead of you. Unless of course you have the next google, twitter, facebook idea, then go for it, what do I know?

I like to do both. I like to talk stuff over before taking actions blindly. Action wise, I've become a CFI, working on CFII, and I registered an LLC.

I will always think for myself, and I got into coding because I want to work smart. If I can, I will write a small program to save time. As for thinking for myself, I kind of already made a decision or am close to making a decision based nothing but on my own opinions, position, and choices. I made this to see if someone could prove me otherwise.

As of now, I am thinking of drawing it out just because it makes everything easier, I can go for my goals, and I know much of it already.

Also, I want to get something off the ground before I am 26 because health insurance.

 

[forseth11]

Keep in mind that you will very likely build some interesting/important business contacts getting your bachelors/masters that you wouldn't otherwise if you quit college.

This is true, but as an instructor and living on an airport, I find that I meet so many more interesting people in aviation than I do at college.

No, the only thing worse: Physics.
So, "this class is just pointless torment!" is something I hear a lot, from the biologists and engineers.

I started out college trying to decide between CS and physics as a major; took courses in both. An inspirational professor swayed me to the dark side. <Follow your inspiration!>
I have no regrets about my excessively-overcredentialed education, except that I never learned a foreign language.
Even now that I'm older and entrenched in a career, I feel like I could (if I really wanted to) bag it all and go use my good ol' physics degree to do just about anything. <Whatever gives you that feeling!>

Oh, to be young again... <sigh>

Wow! That is awesome! I have to take University Physics 1 next semester, so this is going to be fun.

Although a pretty competitive space, seems like software offers more future opportunity than an “aviation business”.

Anything I can think of in aviation is somewhat capital intensive, which it doesn’t sound like you are flush with.

Get the bachelors and focus on technology if you want to make money. Nobody is going to want to go to flight school with a 20 year old guy running an old C150.

Haha yep. I have stuff I would love to say to this, but I do have to protect my business ideas for the time being. Lets just say I have an aviation business plan (2 of them) which require less than $1000 to begin and do not need any assets.

 

[weilke]

Yes. Bachelors.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

The fact that you’re asking and thinking is a good thing.

If there is a decision point that involves an opportunity that may not come along all that often vs something you can always do, the decision should be easy - take the more rare opportunity. You can always fall back to the more common opportunity.

Now make your decision and go out and execute.

Lastly, make sure to enjoy what you decided to do.

 

[Brad Smith]

A very successful businessman that is also the president of a non-profit that my wife works at was asked to give a talk to students at a local college. The talk was rather short as he told the students that if they had an entrepreneurial spirit they would be out there right now making it happen rather than sitting in classrooms learning from people that have probably never even ran a successful business. He was serious. He told them that 6 mos. running your own business would teach you more than 5 years worth of “business” classes.
The school staff wasn’t too happy with him as they thought he was going to give the students a pep talk about staying in school and getting good grades. He was not asked to speak at that school again.
No school can give you the drive, skill or business acumen that it takes to be a successful entrepreneur. That comes from the inside and is not acquired at even the most illustrious/expensive business schools. If you’re of the entrepreneurial spirit you’ll have a burning desire to be out there giving it your best shot and not giving up when things get tough.
For everyone else there’s college.

 

[forseth11]

The fact that you’re asking and thinking is a good thing.

If there is a decision point that involves an opportunity that may not come along all that often vs something you can always do, the decision should be easy - take the more rare opportunity. You can always fall back to the more common opportunity.

Now make your decision and go out and execute.

Lastly, make sure to enjoy what you decided to do.

I agree. Thank you for your input. I wouldn't do something unless I loved it.

A very successful businessman that is also the president of a non-profit that my wife works at was asked to give a talk to students at a local college. The talk was rather short as he told the students that if they had an entrepreneurial spirit they would be out there right now making it happen rather than sitting in classrooms learning from people that have probably never even ran a successful business. He was serious. He told them that 6 mos. running your own business would teach you more than 5 years worth of “business” classes.
The school staff wasn’t too happy with him as they thought he was going to give the students a pep talk about staying in school and getting good grades. He was not asked to speak at that school again.
No school can give you the drive, skill or business acumen that it takes to be a successful entrepreneur. That comes from the inside and is not acquired at even the most illustrious/expensive business schools. If you’re of the entrepreneurial spirit you’ll have a burning desire to be out there giving it your best shot and not giving up when things get tough.
For everyone else there’s college.

I constantly wake up and I know I can succeed in college somewhat easily, but I don't want to be here. I don't want to be here not because I am lazy, but because I would rather be building a business and exploring entrepreneurship. However, my parents and family do not advise it, and one of the only reasons I am staying in is because my dad is giving me $700 per month directly as child support for airplane gas and other stuff as long as I remain in college. This is my first semester. I am taking Calc 2, Majors Biology 1 (UNT requires it), Ethics, and US History. I am strongly considering ending it to let my spirit free. People tell me it is impossible or "too risky", and all I say is it would be for you.

I am going to treat college like a job similar to flight instructing. According to Rich Dad Poor Dad (book), it is best to run a business if you have the drive for it, but he says to stay working a job and owning a business part time. That is the step I want to take.

Thank you so much for your input!

 

[asicer]

This is true, but as an instructor and living on an airport, I find that I meet so many more interesting people in aviation than I do at college.

However, you're more likely to build relationships with like-minded entrepreneurial people your age wanting to build a computer/Internet business studying for a CS degree than you would at the airport.

 

[James331]

Keep in mind that you will very likely build some interesting/important business contacts getting your bachelors/masters that you wouldn't otherwise if you quit college.

You’ll make more joining a golf course, yacht club, or SCCA

 

[asicer]

You’ll make more joining a golf course, yacht club, or SCCA

Golfers I know are already doing their own thing. Sailors I've met have already taken the risks and are reaping the rewards. SCCA racers I've met are more nerdy than entrepreneurial.

 

[James331]

Golfers I know are already doing their own thing. Sailors I've met have already taken the risks and are reaping the rewards. SCCA racers I've met are more nerdy than entrepreneurial.

I live in a college town (actually few universities and a college or two) and shy of Harvard or Yale, if you want to network into getting a job as a bartender college is great, the networking marketing line is almost as sad as the how much more you’ll make with the average useless degree highschool guidance line, yeah passing the bar or getting a MD, RN, MBA or Engneering will make you some cash, but for the 95% of other degrees it’ll just make you further in debt. Most of my favorite bartenders around here have bachelors and masters degrees, however I still tip them a buck a drink.

 

[PNWPilot]

More advice from another from the peanut gallery: I've primarily worked for risky internet startups for the past 28 years, mainly because I enjoy the culture and the risk/reward. Individual contributor for 14 of those years and management for the rest.

I have never hired a software engineer just because they have a Bachelor's in CS. I only look for candidates that have the skill sets and project experience that fits my needs.

That said, the safer route is the degree. Recruiters/head hunters/placement agencies that are not technically savvy use the degree as a filter for candidates. Spending four years getting a balanced education with a major in CS is a good path. However, given your goals, this is not likely the path you'll take.

If I were you, I'd skip the degree and take online courses that focus in software engineering areas that you're interested in from institutions such as Stanford Online, some of which are free. If you are not sure what areas to focus in from a coder perspective, machine learning, information extraction, and computer vision are hot and esoteric areas at the moment. You can also make a very nice living with expertise in full-stack development. However, must-haves IMO are data structures and algorithms, networking, virtualization/VMs, and some variant of Unix (Linux/BSD). Know these well and read the RFCs. Languages and frameworks du jour come and go, but the must-haves will keep you marketable. These, along with your growing experience, builds a solid foundation that will make you an attractive candidate to a wide variety of companies/industries.

This should get you a fairly lucrative job, especially if you relocate to a locale that is tech-rich (eg: Seattle). A good alternative is if you can score a remote engineering job from a company operating in a tech hub and live in an area with a lower cost of living.

This path, along with a bit of luck that you make, should fund the rest of your dreams.

 

[arnoha]

Get the college degree. Four years is not a lot of time, especially now. I'm biased toward CS, as that's what I have and it's done very well for me. That said, a few things:

* The degree is not obsolete. Computer programming changes constantly. Computer science does not. They are not the same thing. You will learn that in college if the degree program is any good. Pascal is gone but Knuth is still very valid.
* If you have an entrepreneurial spirit now, you will also have one in four years. It doesn't go away and the opportunities will still be there. You'll just be smarter and mature about it.
* If you win as an entrepreneur, the little amount you spent on your college will be noise.
* If you don't win and have to use the degree, it's what's paying your bills and you'll be glad to have it.

College is less about shoving facts in your head as it is about constructing a framework for learning. Just like your CFI told you that the PPL was a license to learn about flying, your degree is a license to learn about life. That degree constructs a cohesive scaffold of knowledge, connections, and experiences that let you absorb the rest of what you get through life more quickly and more effectively. If the program is any good, anyway. There's some definite crap out there. I would also avoid online courses. The people you meet are an important part of the equation, your professors a little, but mostly the other students.

Lastly...it's an experience. A real, once-in-a-lifetime experience that you can only have at this stage of your life. The businesses...they'll still feel the same in ten or twenty years. Success and failure there is a constant. The full college experience is only doable in a brief window. And it will be your experience to carry with you for life, something no one can take from you. I don't regret my degree in the least. I regret not having immersed myself even more into it.

In the end, only you can make the choice. If what I'm saying doesn't resonate, it could be wrong advice for you, sure. But before you do, start asking folks who are advising you to stay in college about their college experience and see what that does for you. See if that's something that you're OK with giving up.

 

[weilke]

I know lots of folks who have done well with a bachelor's in CS. I also know some non-degreed 'certification hoes' who jump from consulting contract to consulting contract where they are managed by folks with a chemistry degree and an MBA.
Most of the 'serial enterpreneurs' I know can either do so because they married rich and their wife gives them enough pocket money to stay entertained or because they have the gift of the 'golden tongue' and are able to find new 'partners' for each of their ill fated ventures.
I have never heard those who succeeded at building more than one company talk about it. They just do things.

Maybe CS is not the right degree for you. For what you have in mind, you probably want to get a firm grasp of finance and accounting.

 

[CC268]

Look man if your anything like me...you’ve got this life thing figured out. No need to ask the older fellas on PoA about it



Jk

 

[randy m]

Why not take a gap year and get one of your businesses off the ground - then make the call. Or do a combination of the gap plus slowed completion pace.

 

[jaymark6655]

Go for the BS, even if you don't work in the field most science based degrees help get jobs in other areas and you will need a back up. The one option is 30K and it might sound like a lot now, but I made twice that starting with a degree and almost zero experience right out of school. My plan was to work for a couple years and then get a masters, its been six because life happens. You have to make plans that give you the largest amount of flexibility to adapt. I had an AS, but it was just a back up plan while I was getting my BS I never stopped going to school. It was in case something happened and I had to stop during my junior or senior year.

I know two people that have started businesses or have been part of start ups, both have seen multiple failures. One has no degree and probably one of the hardest working guys that I know. He is still struggling. Last month he asked me for money to help pay his mortgage because he had a foreclosure court date the following week. The other has a degree (math) and has a stable job that he first starting working at out of college. He probably has loss more money than the first on businesses and investments, but he doesn't have to worry about feeding his family or keeping a roof over his head because he has that stable job to fall on every time something he decides to invest his money in fails. He showed me that you can do everything right in starting a business and have it go under through absolutely no fault of yours.

 

[flyingron]

Get the Bachelors degree in Computer Science (Business Science at most places is a joke).

Keep doing research or relevant jobs. Hiring you as a programmer, your CFI status means squat. I hired a couple of pilots over my 23 years running a software company, but that was purely an incidental thing.

You're going to need an income while pursuing the other pipe dreams.

 

[JOhnH]

Unless you want to be a tradesman (plumber, electrician, carpenter) I think you should at least get your bachelors.
There is nothing wrong with the trades, but without a quality general education, your options will be somewhat limited in the future.
There are always exceptions, but an education is valuable in so many ways, and if you don't get it when you are young, it is much harder to get it later.

Just don't go into huge debt for it.
I agree with trying to build a business while you are in college.

 

[GeorgeC]

I kind of feel like $30,000 is not worth having a little more credibility.

$30k is nothing. Get the CS degree and maybe an MBA too.

 

[James331]

Unless you want to be a tradesman (plumber, electrician, carpenter) I think you should at least get your bachelors.
There is nothing wrong with the trades, but without a quality general education, your options will be somewhat limited in the future.
There are always exceptions, but an education is valuable in so many ways, and if you don't get it when you are young, it is much harder to get it later.

Just don't go into huge debt for it.
I agree with trying to build a business while you are in college.

Yup, one poor “uneducated” fool I know took a welding class at a community college, worked as a welder, bought a work truck off Craig’s list, put up some adds on all the free sites, got lots of work, got more work than he could handle, bought another work truck off Craig’s list, hired a few guys, think he’s got like 5 trucks now and is well into the six figures.

If only he had a degree

 

[JOhnH]

Yup, one poor “uneducated” fool I know took a welding class at a community college, worked as a welder, bought a work truck off Craig’s list, put up some adds on all the free sites, got lots of work, got more work than he could handle, bought another work truck off Craig’s list, hired a few guys, think he’s got like 5 trucks now and is well into the six figures.

If only he had a degree

As I said, there are always exceptions.
Nowhere did I say that not going to college implies "uneducated fool".
He asked for other's opinions. I gave him mine.
It is a well accepted fact that people with a college education make MUCH more money over their lifetimes.

I fully support the idea that not everyone NEEDS a college education. I even pointed out that tradesmen are a prime example, and even though I didn't list welders, that is the type of trade I was referring to.

Not knowing the skills, intelligence, abilities or motivations of the OP, and all other things being equal, a college education is better than no college education.

 

[jsstevens]

If you're looking at a technical degree (CS as you mentioned) I'd lean strongly toward getting the degree. But find a way to do it without debt. I did it by finding companies that would pay me to do real programming work while I went to school part time (and stye paid for most of the schooling). Those companies still exist (thought they're harder to find).

I had programming skills (and professional experience) before I started, but 35 years into my career I do still use the _concepts_ I learned in CS. The tech, of course, is many generations old now.

As for the entrepreneurial part, I have two pieces of advice:
1) Focus on something and drive it hard. There was a joke in the Reader's Digest that my dad often quoted "The secret to success in working for yourself is to work half days: whichever 12 hours you want to work." There' more truth to that in the beginning and even middle than most folks would like to admit. I'm a co-founder of a very successful company. We are 14 years old now and have taken our segment by storm that last few years. I tell people (because it feels true) that we worked our tails off for 10 years and then we were an overnight sensation.
2) The interesting opportunities are at the intersection of disciplines. Apply CS to aviation. Or combine cloud technology to retail (Amazon?). Or something. So get an education (not necessarily in school) in two or more things until you see a need and an application (not talking just software here) that has legs, then work your tail off to make it bring more value to more people. That's how you build a successful business.

Do this before you're responsible for a family (or marry someone who shares your passion!) or the salary trap is tough to break out of.

John

 

[cgrab]

I would say that if you are business minded then you know how to create a business plan and that is what you need for this decision. Decide on a goal and develop a plan to get there. You may even want to work backwards to see what you need to get to your goal.

Here's an example: I wanted to retire when I turned 60. To do this I needed a steady income and low bills. I know the US Government and the Military pay pensions. I set out at age 15 to attend the Naval Academy (no student debt) to join the Marines and transfer into the Reserves and serve 20 years (eligible for pension at age 60). While in the Reserves, I planned to work and save and live frugally (401K money and low bills). I then got a civil service job which allowed me to count my USMCR time towards retirement and worked until I had 20 years at age 60. Yes, I planned all this as I was entering high school and it worked except a) I actually spent 30 years in the Reserves and b) one of the companies I worked for also pays a pension-both positives.

 

[asicer]

I live in a college town (actually few universities and a college or two) and shy of Harvard or Yale, if you want to network into getting a job as a bartender college is great, the networking marketing line is almost as sad as the how much more you’ll make with the average useless degree highschool guidance line, yeah passing the bar or getting a MD, RN, MBA or Engneering will make you some cash, but for the 95% of other degrees it’ll just make you further in debt. Most of my favorite bartenders around here have bachelors and masters degrees, however I still tip them a buck a drink.

Zuckerberg met Savarin and the gang while attending college. Started Facebook.
Larry Page met Sergey Brin while attending college. Started Google.
Jerry Yang met David Filo while attending college. Started Yahoo.

The OP is thinking about a CS degree, remember?

 

[James331]

As I said, there are always exceptions.
Nowhere did I say that not going to college implies "uneducated fool".
He asked for other's opinions. I gave him mine.
It is a well accepted fact that people with a college education make MUCH more money over their lifetimes.

I fully support the idea that not everyone NEEDS a college education. I even pointed out that tradesmen are a prime example, and even though I didn't list welders, that is the type of trade I was referring to.

Not knowing the skills, intelligence, abilities or motivations of the OP, and all other things being equal, a college education is better than no college education.

I’d say money wise learning a trade is a better ROI than many degrees, I mean you don’t need a masters to sling bud light at a bar
The exception goes the other way, most of the degrees are near useless and bring a ton of debt.

Zuckerberg met Savarin and the gang while attending college. Started Facebook.
Larry Page met Sergey Brin while attending college. Started Google.
Jerry Yang met David Filo while attending college. Started Yahoo.

The OP is thinking about a CS degree, remember?

And many didn’t meet anyone who lead to anything.

What about joining a out side of school tech group/club/etc?

 

[weilke]

I’d say money wise learning a trade is a better ROI than many degrees, I mean you don’t need a masters to sling bud light at a bar
The exception goes the other way, most of the degrees are near useless and bring a ton of debt.

If 'many degrees' includes sociology with a minor in women's studies then yes.
CS vs. a construction trade where you draw UI 5 months out of the year, not so much.

 

[idahoflier]

I didn't see anyone else mention this so I'll throw it out there. The economy is great now and jobs are plentiful. Go back a decade and that wasn't the case. When the country goes through another recession, and it will, if you find yourself displaced from employment, the degree will help with finding another job. Also, as others have mentioned, the older you get, the more life gets in the way of going back to school. If you think you're busy now, reflect on this time in 10 years and see how busy you really were...

Good Luck!

 

[Ken Ibold]

This is true if you are going to be an employee. Both mean nothing in the business sector. It will shutout many fallback right... well... in the computer science field, they will hire based on experience without a bachelors degree (have had it). The information age is focused on skills rather than degree in regards to the tech industry. The only case I can see this being useful is to make a little bit extra, but there are 6 month courses which guarantee a job at bachelors pay for computer science which cost $3000 - $5000 to complete. It makes college obsolete for this field. For others, I would definitely need a degree, but I will be spreading myself too thin. I have a love for CS and it can be applied in business startups for efficiency and avoiding using many employees.


Yes, I know. I developed freelance for 3 years, and this experience landed me a job this spring, but after the four interviews, I turned it down because I would rather flight instruct. Most places "require" a degree, but they really value experience and skills more. I also don't ever want to have to work a 40 hour a week job unless it is for my own business to build it.


It is not. That is why I am doing computer science as a fall back. I have 6 fallback plans, college does not play a roll until plan 3.


I considered that, but after further review, it does not teach anything on starting a business. It deals more with managing or corporate positions rather than fundamental business stuff. Besides, I can learn much more WAYYYYYYY faster via reading, my contacts, my mentors, and practice. I like your idea though. I think computer science will be more fun for me, and more valuable. When it comes down to it, both amounts of knowledge can be learned faster when teaching yourself. This is why the education system is so obsolete. It hasn't changed in 150 years, but technology has.

I have two very focused business plans, and I have written both business plans, and I just have to complete market research to make it complete. What I really want to do for a living is build businesses, make them passive, then continue to the next. Then use profits to invest in assets and growing. I do not care about the field in most cases, but I want to start with something I am very knowledgeable on. My focus is business and investing its self.

To me it sounds like you already know which direction you want to take and are looking for validation of that decision. To what end? It's your life. Live it as you see fit.

 

[Ken Ibold]

I didn't see anyone else mention this so I'll throw it out there. The economy is great now and jobs are plentiful. Go back a decade and that wasn't the case. When the country goes through another recession, and it will, if you find yourself displaced from employment, the degree will help with finding another job. Also, as others have mentioned, the older you get, the more life gets in the way of going back to school. If you think you're busy now, reflect on this time in 10 years and see how busy you really were...

Good Luck!

I got my masters at age 53. That was when I no longer had to help the kids with their homework. I figured I'd just do my own homework.

 

[CC268]

To me it sounds like you already know which direction you want to take and are looking for validation of that decision. To what end? It's your life. Live it as you see fit.

Yea I was thinking exactly the same thing. I think he has his mind set already

 

[chemgeek]

The only reason why I was going to college was for the connections. However, I have been making so many more in the aviation world which are much more valuable. I don't think I will do college at all if I have to go into debt. However, I will continue at a very slow rate to avoid debt.

One goes to college to get educated. Not to get a job (many other paths for that), or just to make connections (apprenticeships can do that). Part of being educated is learning to work with others, learning to communicate effectively in writing and speaking, working with outstanding mentors who can help develop your skills, and most importantly, face and overcome challenges. You will also become associated with folks with a lot of credibility who can vouch for your integrity and competence. Oh, yes, you will learn some skills, too. You will get out of your education what you put into it. If you just go to classes and take tests, well...that may not take you far. If you get involved in research or an honors project, or an entrepreneurial institute at your institution (we have such an institute at our college), or take on leadership positions, you may get a lot from your educational experience. I know. I was in the academy for over 3 decades, and mentored hundreds of research and honors students in STEM at the bachelor's level. Almost every one of the first-year students that entered my institution were sure they were the smartest in the world, and knew everything coming in. After all, they were very successful in high school to gain admittance. In college they learned there were challenges and wonders and levels of personal accomplishment they had never imagined. Those that met those challenges emerged changed, more confident, and capable of pursuing a variety of post-graduate goals, from public service, business or obtaining additional, advanced education to open additional career doors.

A college degree, if you make the most of it, will pay back in spades, preparing you with not only knowledge, but professional and leadership skills required to work with others and convince them to work with you to help you achieve your goals. The debt you accumulate, within reason, will be paid back many times over. Be realistic if about what a college education will do for you. And be realistic that without appropriate credentials, you may encounter barriers that those with credentials will not encounter. Investors and partners will definitely consider credentials when making bjusiness decisions.

Cheers, and good luck in your career path.

 

[forseth11]

However, you're more likely to build relationships with like-minded entrepreneurial people your age wanting to build a computer/Internet business studying for a CS degree than you would at the airport.

This is true. The time used to do so will hopefully be worth it. I seemed to have made more connections working freelance development.

More advice from another from the peanut gallery: I've primarily worked for risky internet startups for the past 28 years, mainly because I enjoy the culture and the risk/reward. Individual contributor for 14 of those years and management for the rest.

I have never hired a software engineer just because they have a Bachelor's in CS. I only look for candidates that have the skill sets and project experience that fits my needs.

That said, the safer route is the degree. Recruiters/head hunters/placement agencies that are not technically savvy use the degree as a filter for candidates. Spending four years getting a balanced education with a major in CS is a good path. However, given your goals, this is not likely the path you'll take.

If I were you, I'd skip the degree and take online courses that focus in software engineering areas that you're interested in from institutions such as Stanford Online, some of which are free. If you are not sure what areas to focus in from a coder perspective, machine learning, information extraction, and computer vision are hot and esoteric areas at the moment. You can also make a very nice living with expertise in full-stack development. However, must-haves IMO are data structures and algorithms, networking, virtualization/VMs, and some variant of Unix (Linux/BSD). Know these well and read the RFCs. Languages and frameworks du jour come and go, but the must-haves will keep you marketable. These, along with your growing experience, builds a solid foundation that will make you an attractive candidate to a wide variety of companies/industries.

This should get you a fairly lucrative job, especially if you relocate to a locale that is tech-rich (eg: Seattle). A good alternative is if you can score a remote engineering job from a company operating in a tech hub and live in an area with a lower cost of living.

This path, along with a bit of luck that you make, should fund the rest of your dreams.

I do not want to ever work as a software developer for a living unless I have to. That is my final fallback plan. I would much rather do the following first:

1. DPE and Business
2. Corporate and Business
3. Instruct and Business
4. Airlines and Business
5. Airlines
6. Software development and business
7. Software development

Thank you for your input by the way!

Get the college degree. Four years is not a lot of time, especially now. I'm biased toward CS, as that's what I have and it's done very well for me. That said, a few things:

* The degree is not obsolete. Computer programming changes constantly. Computer science does not. They are not the same thing. You will learn that in college if the degree program is any good. Pascal is gone but Knuth is still very valid.
* If you have an entrepreneurial spirit now, you will also have one in four years. It doesn't go away and the opportunities will still be there. You'll just be smarter and mature about it.
* If you win as an entrepreneur, the little amount you spent on your college will be noise.
* If you don't win and have to use the degree, it's what's paying your bills and you'll be glad to have it.

College is less about shoving facts in your head as it is about constructing a framework for learning. Just like your CFI told you that the PPL was a license to learn about flying, your degree is a license to learn about life. That degree constructs a cohesive scaffold of knowledge, connections, and experiences that let you absorb the rest of what you get through life more quickly and more effectively. If the program is any good, anyway. There's some definite crap out there. I would also avoid online courses. The people you meet are an important part of the equation, your professors a little, but mostly the other students.

Lastly...it's an experience. A real, once-in-a-lifetime experience that you can only have at this stage of your life. The businesses...they'll still feel the same in ten or twenty years. Success and failure there is a constant. The full college experience is only doable in a brief window. And it will be your experience to carry with you for life, something no one can take from you. I don't regret my degree in the least. I regret not having immersed myself even more into it.

In the end, only you can make the choice. If what I'm saying doesn't resonate, it could be wrong advice for you, sure. But before you do, start asking folks who are advising you to stay in college about their college experience and see what that does for you. See if that's something that you're OK with giving up.

It will take at least 5 years of the best ages of my life! I like your reasons.

It may be an experience, but I have many other things I would much rather experience.

Why not take a gap year and get one of your businesses off the ground - then make the call. Or do a combination of the gap plus slowed completion pace.

I absolutely love this idea! I think this was exactly what I was looking for. I am strongly considering this.

Go for the BS, even if you don't work in the field most science based degrees help get jobs in other areas and you will need a back up. The one option is 30K and it might sound like a lot now, but I made twice that starting with a degree and almost zero experience right out of school. My plan was to work for a couple years and then get a masters, its been six because life happens. You have to make plans that give you the largest amount of flexibility to adapt. I had an AS, but it was just a back up plan while I was getting my BS I never stopped going to school. It was in case something happened and I had to stop during my junior or senior year.

I know two people that have started businesses or have been part of start ups, both have seen multiple failures. One has no degree and probably one of the hardest working guys that I know. He is still struggling. Last month he asked me for money to help pay his mortgage because he had a foreclosure court date the following week. The other has a degree (math) and has a stable job that he first starting working at out of college. He probably has loss more money than the first on businesses and investments, but he doesn't have to worry about feeding his family or keeping a roof over his head because he has that stable job to fall on every time something he decides to invest his money in fails. He showed me that you can do everything right in starting a business and have it go under through absolutely no fault of yours.

That is true. I want to have a stable position to enable my ventures, and I was going to do this via flight instruction or corporate since both allow a lot of free time and flexibility.

I think I am going to go for it, but very slowly to give me free time while still working and building.

Unless you want to be a tradesman (plumber, electrician, carpenter) I think you should at least get your bachelors.
There is nothing wrong with the trades, but without a quality general education, your options will be somewhat limited in the future.
There are always exceptions, but an education is valuable in so many ways, and if you don't get it when you are young, it is much harder to get it later.

Just don't go into huge debt for it.
I agree with trying to build a business while you are in college.

The debt is where I stop or at least slow down education. I will not go into debt. Period.

Like you said, it will get harder later. I know the computer science stuff already, but I want to learn business and to do that I need to start. I want to learn that stuff while I can learn quickly.

$30k is nothing. Get the CS degree and maybe an MBA too.

Haha. Definitely a no on master. It is a lot right now. I will not go into debt.

 

[forseth11]

If you're looking at a technical degree (CS as you mentioned) I'd lean strongly toward getting the degree. But find a way to do it without debt. I did it by finding companies that would pay me to do real programming work while I went to school part time (and stye paid for most of the schooling). Those companies still exist (thought they're harder to find).

I had programming skills (and professional experience) before I started, but 35 years into my career I do still use the _concepts_ I learned in CS. The tech, of course, is many generations old now.

As for the entrepreneurial part, I have two pieces of advice:
1) Focus on something and drive it hard. There was a joke in the Reader's Digest that my dad often quoted "The secret to success in working for yourself is to work half days: whichever 12 hours you want to work." There' more truth to that in the beginning and even middle than most folks would like to admit. I'm a co-founder of a very successful company. We are 14 years old now and have taken our segment by storm that last few years. I tell people (because it feels true) that we worked our tails off for 10 years and then we were an overnight sensation.
2) The interesting opportunities are at the intersection of disciplines. Apply CS to aviation. Or combine cloud technology to retail (Amazon?). Or something. So get an education (not necessarily in school) in two or more things until you see a need and an application (not talking just software here) that has legs, then work your tail off to make it bring more value to more people. That's how you build a successful business.

Do this before you're responsible for a family (or marry someone who shares your passion!) or the salary trap is tough to break out of.

John

The only way I can do that is to do it slowly (my current plan). The concepts don't change for sure, but do you have to learn that in college, or can you learn it via books, practice, other classes, etc.

I absolutely agree with both of your pieces of advice.

I would say that if you are business minded then you know how to create a business plan and that is what you need for this decision. Decide on a goal and develop a plan to get there. You may even want to work backwards to see what you need to get to your goal.

Here's an example: I wanted to retire when I turned 60. To do this I needed a steady income and low bills. I know the US Government and the Military pay pensions. I set out at age 15 to attend the Naval Academy (no student debt) to join the Marines and transfer into the Reserves and serve 20 years (eligible for pension at age 60). While in the Reserves, I planned to work and save and live frugally (401K money and low bills). I then got a civil service job which allowed me to count my USMCR time towards retirement and worked until I had 20 years at age 60. Yes, I planned all this as I was entering high school and it worked except a) I actually spent 30 years in the Reserves and b) one of the companies I worked for also pays a pension-both positives.

Wow very nice plan!

I definitely plan everything out, and I know how to make a good business plan. My goal is to retire by age 40, and I have made a plan to get there.

I didn't see anyone else mention this so I'll throw it out there. The economy is great now and jobs are plentiful. Go back a decade and that wasn't the case. When the country goes through another recession, and it will, if you find yourself displaced from employment, the degree will help with finding another job. Also, as others have mentioned, the older you get, the more life gets in the way of going back to school. If you think you're busy now, reflect on this time in 10 years and see how busy you really were...

Good Luck!

I am busy by choice. I am busy now because I am trying to learn as much as I can as quickly as I can because I can learn quickly as I am young. If I continued as a regular college student with a part time job and just did school, I would have a fair amount of excess free time. I lack this free time because I choose to instruct more, training more, study stocks, have a social life and build connections, enjoy life, work on business learning and ideas, and read self improvement or business books.

 

[GeorgeC]

Definitely a no on master. It is a lot right now. I will not go into debt.

No need for debt, a good job will pay for your masters.
You're already on your way to your ratings, maybe get your A&P while you're at it.

 

[forseth11]

To me it sounds like you already know which direction you want to take and are looking for validation of that decision. To what end? It's your life. Live it as you see fit.

You are mostly right. I am 75% sure I will complete college (25% if something takes off), but I plan on doing it slowly or taking a gap year or both. I am here to get people's points of views and learn from that.

One goes to college to get educated. Not to get a job (many other paths for that), or just to make connections (apprenticeships can do that). Part of being educated is learning to work with others, learning to communicate effectively in writing and speaking, working with outstanding mentors who can help develop your skills, and most importantly, face and overcome challenges. You will also become associated with folks with a lot of credibility who can vouch for your integrity and competence. Oh, yes, you will learn some skills, too. You will get out of your education what you put into it. If you just go to classes and take tests, well...that may not take you far. If you get involved in research or an honors project, or an entrepreneurial institute at your institution (we have such an institute at our college), or take on leadership positions, you may get a lot from your educational experience. I know. I was in the academy for over 3 decades, and mentored hundreds of research and honors students in STEM at the bachelor's level. Almost every one of the first-year students that entered my institution were sure they were the smartest in the world, and knew everything coming in. After all, they were very successful in high school to gain admittance. In college they learned there were challenges and wonders and levels of personal accomplishment they had never imagined. Those that met those challenges emerged changed, more confident, and capable of pursuing a variety of post-graduate goals, from public service, business or obtaining additional, advanced education to open additional career doors.

A college degree, if you make the most of it, will pay back in spades, preparing you with not only knowledge, but professional and leadership skills required to work with others and convince them to work with you to help you achieve your goals. The debt you accumulate, within reason, will be paid back many times over. Be realistic if about what a college education will do for you. And be realistic that without appropriate credentials, you may encounter barriers that those with credentials will not encounter. Investors and partners will definitely consider credentials when making bjusiness decisions.

Cheers, and good luck in your career path.

I am only looking at college for the connections to be honest. Not really any other purpose. I get at least 4 contacts per class with 1 person per class to get closer to.

I almost think spreading college out over years will let me get far more contacts and connections in the end.

This is true regarding investors and partners. From what I have learned, they look most often at how many businesses you started and/or how successful you did it and who you did it with.

Thank you!