Really Fun IFR Exercise...

VWGhiaBob

VWGhiaBob

Line Up and Wait
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Mar 17, 2013
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VWGhiaBob
OK...so I really have the aviation bug...today, KSEA to KBUR, I'm was a passenger on Alaska Airlines.

Sitting at the gate, I use ForeFlight to figure out the most likely Cleared Route ATC would give for flight AS578. I load it into ForeFlight...every single waypoint...on my iPad and iPhone. Both are in Airplane Mode.

I'll be darned...I was able to follow the entire flight...the DP, the route, the Arrival, and the approach. At one point, ATC issued a short-cut, and it was really easy to figure out the Waypoint they gave the pilot. I even got a "sink rate" warning as we began the arrival, with the spoilers extended.

The passenger sitting next to me was fascinated that I could tell her in advance every time the plane was about to turn...all the way to the ILS.

I have tried this before, and it didn't work due to interference. But this time it worked the whole time, right down to BUDDE on the approach (...not at or above 3000...but AT 3000 feet).

Attached is some of the detail, just after we got our one ATC shortcut. Otherwise, the entire flight was "As Filed." Fun stuff!
 

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LOL...well now I don't feel like such a total out-there nerd.
 
Van Johnston said:
You can get the actual route from FlightAware.
Click to expand...
Cool...yes I use Flightaware but just used it to verify the flight path. All makes sense. Now if someone will just hire a 63 year old IFR pilot!
 
VWGhiaBob said:
The passenger sitting next to me was fascinated that I could tell her in advance every time the plane was about to turn...all the way to the ILS.
Click to expand...

You should have tried to get a reaction from your seat-mate by bringing your headset and "controlling" the flight:

"AS578, turn right 30 degrees."
"AS578, start your descent"
 
giphy.gif
 
VWGhiaBob said:
OK...so I really have the aviation bug...today, KSEA to KBUR, I'm was a passenger on Alaska Airlines.

Sitting at the gate, I use ForeFlight to figure out the most likely Cleared Route ATC would give for flight AS578. I load it into ForeFlight...every single waypoint...on my iPad and iPhone. Both are in Airplane Mode.

I'll be darned...I was able to follow the entire flight...the DP, the route, the Arrival, and the approach. At one point, ATC issued a short-cut, and it was really easy to figure out the Waypoint they gave the pilot. I even got a "sink rate" warning as we began the arrival, with the spoilers extended.

The passenger sitting next to me was fascinated that I could tell her in advance every time the plane was about to turn...all the way to the ILS.

I have tried this before, and it didn't work due to interference. But this time it worked the whole time, right down to BUDDE on the approach (...not at or above 3000...but AT 3000 feet).

Attached is some of the detail, just after we got our one ATC shortcut. Otherwise, the entire flight was "As Filed." Fun stuff!
Click to expand...
 
Did you have a eindow seat to get gps reception, mine never works in the aisle seats
 
I’m confused about the “sink rate” call. That’s not an en route call that I’m aware of.
 
You can enter the flight number into the "Route, Waypoint, or Aircraft" search box in the upper right, e.g., SWA225 and you'll get the route instead of importing from FlightAware (which you can do too).
 
My phone never has good enough reception to follow the commercial flights. One time I opened foreflight an forgot about it, the loud audible sink rate alarm that rang throughout the cabin sure got a few gasp and funny looks...
 
gacoon said:
Did you have a eindow seat to get gps reception, mine never works in the aisle seats
Click to expand...

Yes, my experience is that you need to be in a window seat. Even then there are times when the geometry conspires against you and your device won't keep tracking. Then you pull out your E-6B.
 
Kritchlow said:
I’m confused about the “sink rate” call. That’s not an en route call that I’m aware of.
Click to expand...
Every time we descended faster than about 4K feet / minute, it came on...3 times total...during which the plane really was descending fast...probably 5K feet / minute.
 
Yep I do the same...did it on the way to and from Alaska this past week
 
VWGhiaBob said:
OK...so I really have the aviation bug...today, KSEA to KBUR, I'm was a passenger on Alaska Airlines.

Sitting at the gate, I use ForeFlight to figure out the most likely Cleared Route ATC would give for flight AS578. I load it into ForeFlight...every single waypoint...on my iPad and iPhone. Both are in Airplane Mode.

I'll be darned...I was able to follow the entire flight...the DP, the route, the Arrival, and the approach. At one point, ATC issued a short-cut, and it was really easy to figure out the Waypoint they gave the pilot. I even got a "sink rate" warning as we began the arrival, with the spoilers extended.

The passenger sitting next to me was fascinated that I could tell her in advance every time the plane was about to turn...all the way to the ILS.

I have tried this before, and it didn't work due to interference. But this time it worked the whole time, right down to BUDDE on the approach (...not at or above 3000...but AT 3000 feet).

Attached is some of the detail, just after we got our one ATC shortcut. Otherwise, the entire flight was "As Filed." Fun stuff!
Click to expand...

You was gonna fly your plane up there. What scrubbed that?
 
BigBadLou said:
That STAR has two WPs that caught my attention.
MMTLY CRUUE.
Love it! :)
Click to expand...
LOL...didn't notice. Always fun to try to figure out where WP names come from. Now I know on those two!
 
Mr.T said:
That's a warning message from Foreflight when it thinks you're dropping too fast.
Click to expand...
VWGhiaBob said:
Every time we descended faster than about 4K feet / minute, it came on...3 times total...during which the plane really was descending fast...probably 5K feet / minute.
Click to expand...
Okay, that’s part of my confusion. It’s a Forefight function, not an actual aircraft function..?

“Sink Rate” is generally reserved (as an actual airline call) as in final approach and usually bellow 1000’.
 
Kritchlow said:
Okay, that’s part of my confusion. It’s a Forefight function, not an actual aircraft function..?

“Sink Rate” is generally reserved (as an actual airline call) as in final approach and usually bellow 1000’.
Click to expand...
I have no idea, but I heard it loud and clear. Interestingly, it sounded just like the voice in my Cirrus when yes...below 1000'...the plane cautions me if my descent rate is above a certain value (not sure what it is).

The difference is this happened three times, between 7,000 and 20,000 feet.

I didn't know ForeFlight even did this. But it was unmistakable, as the passenger next to me will attest. In fact, it also printed a text warning on the screen.
 
Kritchlow said:
Okay, that’s part of my confusion. It’s a Forefight function, not an actual aircraft function..?
Click to expand...

Correct. Pretty sure @VWGhiaBob was in the back of the airplane, not the front. ;)

VWGhiaBob said:
I have no idea, but I heard it loud and clear. Interestingly, it sounded just like the voice in my Cirrus when yes...below 1000'...the plane cautions me if my descent rate is above a certain value (not sure what it is).

The difference is this happened three times, between 7,000 and 20,000 feet.
Click to expand...

From the Pilot's Guide to ForeFlight Mobile:

Pilot's Guide to ForeFlight Mobile said:
At all altitudes, the descent rate required to trigger the alert must be maintained for five seconds, and the alert will only sound once every 30 seconds. This alert is automatically disabled if your groundspeed is less than 40kts.

Above 2,500’ AGL (or when AGL is not known), the alert is triggered if your descent rate exceeds -4,000‘ per minute.

At 2,500’ AGL, the alert is triggered if your descent rate exceeds -3,000’ per minute.

Between 2,500’ AGL and 500’ AGL the descent rate required to trigger the alert decreases linearly along with altitude, down to a threshold of -1,500’ per minute.

At 500’ AGL the alert is triggered if your descent rate exceeds -1,500’ per minute.
Click to expand...
 
Or when you have ForeFlight open and are trying to follow along quietly and discreetly and on taxi out your iPad screams “Now entering runway 32, 9,700 feet remaining!!!”

Um... did you hear something?
 
rocketflyer84 said:
Or when you have ForeFlight open and are trying to follow along quietly and discreetly and on taxi out your iPad screams “Now entering runway 32, 9,700 feet remaining!!!”

Um... did you hear something?
Click to expand...
More -> Settings -> Alerts -> Runway Proximity Alerts -> OFF. Problem solved.
 
Some airlines prohibit passenger use of GPS. Some require the captain's permission. None permit its use below 10,000. Just sayin...another opportunity to have an unpleasant experience with the crew and/or the security thugs.

It's covered in most carriers terms and conditions.
 
rocketflyer84 said:
Or when you have ForeFlight open and are trying to follow along quietly and discreetly and on taxi out your iPad screams “Now entering runway 32, 9,700 feet remaining!!!”

Um... did you hear something?
Click to expand...
Just got an iPad and trial of ForeFlight yesterday and was testing it out with X-Plane after the kids were in bed. As I taxied out at OSH, the iPad bleated that notice. My wife glared at me with the implicit warning, "They wake up, they're yours!"

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 
I did that on my last flight back from Vegas. The flight attendant sitting next to looked surprised that the apps could correctly track our progress as we traveled east. It was great when I looked at the log tracking for the flight. Man, my plane is fast!!! Oh yeah, I ran out of fuel once!!!!:goofy:
 
Oblivion said:
I was confused by the Pacific being on the right. Track-up hurts my brain.
Click to expand...
North Up. North Up. Always, North Up. Only perverts and philistines use Track Up, and they should be caned and banished from civilized society. Just like the reprobates who would fold their chart or sectional to orient it track up.
 
Sundancer said:
North Up. North Up. Always, North Up. Only perverts and philistines use Track Up, and they should be caned and banished from civilized society. Just like the reprobates who would fold their chart or sectional to orient it track up.
Click to expand...
Only idiots who never learned how to read maps think everything should be north up.

Basic map reading skills teach you to first orient the map to the direction you are going to align with landmarks.

Personally. I use both. Track in cruise so I can see more of what is front of me and North up when getting close to orient the map to calc wind issues.



Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk
 
Oh goody, another "religious" war... :rolleyes:

Personally, I usually orient maps north up, but can read a map either way. For that matter, with a panel-mounted moving map such as a GPS or MFD you often don't have any choice. I haven't bothered to check whether it's possible to reorient the display on the 480 (I know you can "pan", but that doesn't involve rotation), but the default is track up. I don't think it's possible on the GMX-200 (default track up), though once again I haven't bothered to check.
 
tspear said:
Only idiots who never learned how to read maps think everything should be north up.

Basic map reading skills teach you to first orient the map to the direction you are going to align with landmarks.

Personally. I use both. Track in cruise so I can see more of what is front of me and North up when getting close to orient the map to calc wind issues.



Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Heretic. . .only morons lacking basic spatial orientation ability would resort to such a perversion, taught by older imbeciles claiming such as "basic map reading skills". Except on approaches, of course.
 
Guys, guys, we're all aviation nerds here...

Personally, I like having 1 of each. North up on my EFB, track up on my panel GPS. North up gives me much better overall situational awareness, while track up makes it easier to see exactly where I should be looking for something in relationship to the plane.
 
North up for printed charts because spinning them makes it worse not better. Track up on gps devices, because, its better for situational awareness and it doesn’t require spinning a map around physically.
 
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