KPSP Cathedral One Departure - Climb via SID or Maintain Phraseology

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jeff0000

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The Cathedral One Departure out of KPSP has a crossing altitude restriction at the Palm Springs Vortac. If the clearance controller assigns you the Cathedral One Departure, will they use the "Climb via SID" phraseology, or will they simply say "Maintain XXXX"? I don't know if Vortac crossing restrictions are included in altitude restrictions used for "Climb via SID" phraseology.
 
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jeff0000 said:
The Cathedral One Departure out of KPSP has a crossing altitude restriction at the Palm Springs Vortac. If the clearance controller assigns you the Cathedral One Departure, will they use the "Climb via SID" phraseology, or will they simply say "Maintain XXXX"? I don't know if Vortac crossing restrictions are included in altitude restrictions used for "Climb via SID" phraseology.
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There's no Top Altitude so they can't just say "Climb via SID" and let it go at that. They have to give you an Altitude. I don't think the VORTAC crossing restrictions on that SID falls within the intent of speed/crossing restrictions that are in the 'climb via' rules. But I suppose the rules could be dissected and a case made that because it has a crossing restriction it 'qualifies,' so to speak, for Climb Via. But there is still no Top Altitude so they still have to say Climb and Maintain. So I say the answer is they will not use Climb Via.
 
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So here is the quick and dirty. Yes if no too altitude than one must be assigned. Buuuutttt if they use the words climb via, than you must meet every posted restriction on the SID. Including VOR. And definitely speeds too!!! Now if you cannot meet climb gradients than you must reject the SID. Or if your just unable to climb while doing it notify the controller immediately.

Clear as mud?
 
If they issue a climb via they will issue an altitude (top alt as mentioned here) or an intermediate altitude to maintain until ATC can get you higher. You would have to cross the VOR at the minimum altitudes specified for the V airway you are cleared for (assigned route of flight).
 
First time I ever heard “I have a phone number for you to copy”, I was flying out on one of the few days you need IFR in PSP and a beech zigged when he should have zagged on the departure.
 
James331 said:
First time I ever heard “I have a phone number for you to copy”, I was flying out on one of the few days you need IFR in PSP and a beech zigged when he should have zagged on the departure.
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Ain't much room for bad zigzaggin there.
 
The only time I wanted to wring a controller's neck was on the Cathedral One departure. I was on my long IFR cross country and we took off in my Cherokee with the wind turbines off in the distance. Then I realized why they put them there. It was so bumpy I had a hard time changing frequencies on the radio and the controller said "climb and maintain niner thousand" my reply as I bounced around climbing at 150-200 fpm was, "we're trying." (yes, not the right answer I know) but when the controller came back with a snarky, "Cherokee six zero uniform, read back altitude assignment." that's when I would have liked to trade places with the guy. You are supposed to climb out, intercept a radial, turn towards the vortac and if not at altitude turn back again until you are. Then the next controller had mercy on me and let me continue East at 7,000' which was below the assigned altitude of 9,000'.

Someone I helped train now works at KPSP. If you hear a sexy female voice, ask if her initials are AT. If so, that's her and yes, the voice matches the person. ;)
 
Timbeck2 said:
The only time I wanted to wring a controller's neck was on the Cathedral One departure. I was on my long IFR cross country and we took off in my Cherokee with the wind turbines off in the distance. Then I realized why they put them there. It was so bumpy I had a hard time changing frequencies on the radio and the controller said "climb and maintain niner thousand" my reply as I bounced around climbing at 150-200 fpm was, "we're trying." (yes, not the right answer I know) but when the controller came back with a snarky, "Cherokee six zero uniform, read back altitude assignment." that's when I would have liked to trade places with the guy. You are supposed to climb out, intercept a radial, turn towards the vortac and if not at altitude turn back again until you are. Then the next controller had mercy on me and let me continue East at 7,000' which was below the assigned altitude of 9,000'.

Someone I helped train now works at KPSP. If you hear a sexy female voice, ask if her initials are AT. If so, that's her and yes, the voice matches the person. ;)
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AH HA!!! You are an imposter!!! No controller can say the only time he wanted to wring another controllers neck is when he was flying a plane.
 
luvflyin said:
AH HA!!! You are an imposter!!! No controller can say the only time he wanted to wring another controllers neck is when he was flying a plane.
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Good point. There have been hundreds that have tried to take my ticket while I was monitoring them. I'll rephrase to say: the only controller, while I was flying, that I wanted to wring their neck.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Good point. There have been hundreds that have tried to take my ticket while I was monitoring them. I'll rephrase to say: the only controller, while I was flying, that I wanted to wring their neck.
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Charges of impersonation have been dropped:)
 
Thanks for the replies guys. What makes it more confusing is that most (or all) of the times that a controller has used a "Climb via" instruction has been on a SID that has the text "TOP ALTITUDE:" in a black box on the chart - like the PADRZ two and PEBLE six departures out of KSAN.

The Cathedral one departure doesn't have this text on the chart. This makes me think that a VOR MCA is not a "published altitude restriction" in the sense that it qualifies it for a "Climb via" instruction.

This also makes me wonder if a controller were to use a "maintain XXXX" instruction with the departure, if I would still need to adhere to the published VOR MCA for the PSP VOR.
 
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