SR22 Down in Parker, CO

My GNS430W used to give me terrain warnings flying the pattern at KHTW in WV, base leg to 26 is directly toward a parallel ridge inside the downwind leg to 8. Can't speak to the TVs in Cirri . . . .

My GTN will have a hissy fit with any terrain, as will ForeFlight. Can’t speak for the Cirrus panel, but assume it’s similar.

One caveat. You have to PAY for that feature. The CAP aircraft never were outfitted with the “optional” stuff like Terrain updates back when I was in, so the G1000 just didn’t do it.

Garmin has a lot of features but some of them are clearly rental software. Even safety of life ones like terrain. They don’t do it for free.

Same with ForeFlight.
 
Mine gives terrain warnings as described with destination set to the airport. Sometimes I get one on final, too, but I'm way to busy to take a picture then . . . . Although I just did a software update to run with the orange label cards, I'll have to recheck it. Losing my old one when I brought it home to update was an expensive mistake: new card, new reader, software update on computer to download, software update on G430W to use new card, visit to avionics shop for the update . . .
Terrain warning on final when there was no problem would be an unwanted distraction fer sure. I’m thinkin I don’t want to update the 430w software. Last update was years ago when the 330ES was installed.
 
Here's an interesting thought I had tonight....if set incorrectly, could the SR22 autopilot fly someone full speed into the ground without any warning in 0/0 vis?

Another question, if he had a problem with AI(vacuum), would not only affect the AI but also the autopilot?
 
Terrain warning on final when there was no problem would be an unwanted distraction fer sure.
Not only a distraction, but if you get accustomed to ignoring terrain warnings, thinking they are false, you might ignore a real one.

That said, when they built a the new runway at an airport we flew to frequently, we would get terrain warnings in the flare... for as long as I was still going there, at least 2 years. The terrain database hadn't been updated yet, at least that was the excuse I heard. The airport database that was updated frequently apparently included information about the runway but not the terrain.
 
The third garage 90 degrees to the front of the house is becoming very popular with new construction. Much of the newer construction out here in AZ has those. I think they are actually a really nice addition. What many home builders are doing is offering it either as a garage or as a small casita (if you didn't want the 3rd garage). Although they are certainly big enough to fit a normal car in. Maybe those ones are extra small?
I really don't like the 'garage with attached house' look. Our last house had the garage under the kitchen and family room nothing showed from the street.
 
I really don't like the 'garage with attached house' look. Our last house had the garage under the kitchen and family room nothing showed from the street.

This isn't the best example as this is a digital render, but this style is very common in new construction here in AZ. I definitely know what you mean by a garage with attached house look...although most that I have seen are quite nice.
photo_1.jpg
 
This isn't the best example as this is a digital render, but this style is very common in new construction here in AZ. I definitely know what you mean by a garage with attached house look...although most that I have seen are quite nice.
View attachment 62997

I love it! Room for a couple cars and a workshop.
 
Such a waste of tax dollars that close to DEN. Adams county taxpayers must be complete idiots or not paying any attention at all.
It's the same kind of mentality that locals are putting up Billions in incentives to get Amazon to come to town.
 
The AP is electric, but where does it get it’s attitude information from, most get from the vacuum driven AI, STEC gets it from turn coordinator.
2005 Cirrus could be either steam or glass. I think the only autopilot option then was from King. The Garmin autopilot was added in 2008 or so.
 
Normally the instruction is “remain West of I-25” which is quite visible day or night, and the modification is likely because the tower knew practice approaches were breaking out around 6800’ from the Army aircraft and other Cirrus shooting multiple approaches. So they watched some guy take off VFR and climb into an increasingly foggy mess and modified the instruction.

There’s no indication he picked up an IFR clearance (yet), but APA does have a CD frequency and he may have done it there. But it sounded like Tower/Ground/CD were combined which is pretty common late in the evening and overnight and whenever weather goes down, because the number of operations falls dramatically.

Another hint number of ops was low and weather was going to crap was the Tower instruction to make a LEFT downwind departing 35R. That puts you over 35L and even in Marginal VFR there’s usually someone doing T&G work on the short runway. At 8:15 in spring twilight the T&G pattern is usually three to four students and instructors going round and round waiting for it to get to one hour after sunset for night work and seeing the transition hour.

Official sunset tonight was 20:05. It’s not dark at 20:15 right now by a long shot. It’s not truly dark until about 20:50 right now and only because the mountains to the west mess with the sun angle. It’d be closer to 21:05 for full dark if it was a flat horizon to the west.

I think what you’re hearing there in the change in instruction from the controller is he wanted him to stay west of I-25 and then he went a-wandering across the final while the other Cirrus was on a five mile final (that high low tone in the background of his exasperated “you need to follow my instructions” transmission is the traffic collision warning, and he’s only working three aircraft and obviously annoyed at the now deceased pilot). He completely cut off the other instrument approach which were breaking out in the beginnings of fog that eventually went to 300 OVC in fog/mist not long after the accident. (You can see the fog in the background in the street lights in the neighborhood shots of the house that got hit by the engine.)

I think if a) the pilot would have ‘fessed up that he was disoriented and asked for a specific vector he MIGHT have gotten it, but remember he never left the Delta. He’s not talking to Denver Approach in the recording. So technically the tower usually won’t give you a vector that takes you out of the Delta if you’re saying you’re not leaving.

(Approach is in that recording because that’s a LiveATC scanner that’s got all the APA frequencies in it. When I lived close enough to APA I fed a Tower/Ground only feed as a secondary feed because on a busy day that other guy’s feed jumps to Approach and gets a bunch of non-APA radio traffic so I wanted a way to listen only to APA and Dave Pascoe approved a second feed for APA from my old house...)

Or b) The controller realized the pilot wasn’t responding well and prompted him asking if he was having a situational awareness or control issue instead of scolding... might have jolted that pilot into realizing he was in more trouble than he thought he was.

This thing may have worked out better.

Obviously b) is not truly the controller’s job when he has an aircraft crossing the ILS and someone cleared for the approach.

Terrain climbs to the south of the airport. If that pilot was scud running trying to stay below a lowering fog/cloud bank after his announcement he was returning, and looking for landmarks in twilight, he was likely just horribly disoriented.

We almost never see fog like that here. And he was from Grand Junction which also rarely sees it. That was also likely a factor.

He needed to climb, confess, and comply... really that’s it. If it was a typical SR22 and everything was working, the autopilot could have taken him up and brought him back down if he knew how to use it.

I think he launched looking for a VFR hole to climb on top and go west with the turbo to home. And then temp/dew point merged 15 minutes after sunset.

There was also something wrong on the ground. The ATIS says you notify ground if you need a run up and he gave that information late to ground. They never taxied him to a run up area. Normally that would have made APA mad to allow him to “do a run up right here” but with only three aircraft moving on a spring night anywhere on the airport, that’s a huge sign the WX had already gone to crap.

Friday night is usually multiple inbound bizjets and three to five in the pattern minimum. Folks knew the weather was closing down and the place was empty.

Bunch of hints in that recording to an APA pilot that may not be obvious to someone listening from elsewhere. Omitting I-25. Not caring where he did the run up. (Took him ten minutes, did anyone notice that? What was he doing??) Asking the other aircraft for bases. Asking the accident aircraft essentially “now what do you want to do?” and him never leaving the Delta... unless I’m mis-hearing that... it all sounds to me like an ill-advised launch into weather that hit temp/dewpoint spread of zero at around the time he launched.
 
To whom it may concern:
The pilot killed on May 11,2018 in Parker,Colorado is my husband. I would ask that you all think twice about posting off the cuff comments. He had a long run up because it was the first flight after the plane's annual. My husband flew commercial that evening, picked the plane up from Arapahoe Aero and planned to fly back home to Grand Junction. He was a very accomplished pilot with extensive ifr flying time. It was vfr conditions when he took off. This crash is still under investigation.
 
You have my deepest sympathy, it’s unfortunate that it will be a year or more before you will have answers and hopefully closure.
There is alot of people like to critique from the comfort of their couch, I would try to ignore them.
 
To whom it may concern:
The pilot killed on May 11,2018 in Parker,Colorado is my husband. I would ask that you all think twice about posting off the cuff comments. He had a long run up because it was the first flight after the plane's annual. My husband flew commercial that evening, picked the plane up from Arapahoe Aero and planned to fly back home to Grand Junction. He was a very accomplished pilot with extensive ifr flying time. It was vfr conditions when he took off. This crash is still under investigation.

Birdie, we are all very sorry for your loss. Every accident is a shock to all of us and most of us feel the loss personally even though we never met the pilot, in this case your husband. Most of these posts are attempts to understand what happened because we all know as pilots it could have very easily been one of us sitting in that cockpit that day instead of your husband. The posts are all speculation at this point and we all read them with that in mind, no one has the answer yet, hopefully the NTSB can shed some light on what happened and we can all learn from this and be a little safer in what we learn from this tragedy. Once again, I am very sorry for your loss and sorry if our posts increased your pain in any way, that is not our intent posting here.
 
8 people died on an Oregon highway when two 4Runners collided head-on, be safe out there guys.

PS, very sorry to hear about this woman's husband in the SR22. I have family in that area and one is an rotarywing mechanic.
 
2005 Cirrus could be either steam or glass. I think the only autopilot option then was from King. The Garmin autopilot was added in 2008 or so.

2005 Cirrus would be all glass primary instruments (specifically avidyne PFD and MFD plus a pair of G430s and an STEC55X autopilot). Backup gauges include an electric driven mechanical AI. No vacuum system anywhere on a 2005 SR22. The STEC55X gets its heading information from a hidden mechanical (electric) turn coordinator and GPSS info from the G430s.
 
To whom it may concern:
The pilot killed on May 11,2018 in Parker,Colorado is my husband. I would ask that you all think twice about posting off the cuff comments. He had a long run up because it was the first flight after the plane's annual. My husband flew commercial that evening, picked the plane up from Arapahoe Aero and planned to fly back home to Grand Junction. He was a very accomplished pilot with extensive ifr flying time. It was vfr conditions when he took off. This crash is still under investigation.

Hello Birdie. My deepest condolences on your loss.

Apologies if my analysis seemed “off the cuff”, I assure you, having flown at Centennial for two decades, they were not.

That was one of the fastest weather changes in daylight from VFR to Low IFR I’ve seen in all of that time, and my questions about the weather change, the long run up, and other items, I assure you, were genuine, and not intended an insinuation of anything improper. I appreciate your information about the maintenance.

As you know, as pilots we have to have the ability to self-criticize and analyze each flight for what we could have done better. We do it to accidents, too.

This accident gave me enough questions as to what really happened that I drove over to Parker two days later and walked the field behind the house myself, trying to imagine the radar flight path overlaid on the terrain there to see if I could glean any insights as to what the pilot, your late husband, may have been seeing, thinking, or attempting, in those final moments.

Much of the post here was to share what “normal” procedures are at Centennial with those who don’t live and fly here.

Above all, may I please say that I would rather your husband were still with us. All we may hope for at this point is to learn from whatever the investigators find, and in my case, to hopefully teach the next generation of pilots as well as I possibly can, so a similar fate will not befall them.

Please let us know if there’s anything we can do for you. I can stand at the front door of my hangar and see the front hangar door at Arapahoe Aero and they’ve worked on my airplane. The aircraft went down just a few miles from my home.

This accident was, as they say, “too close to home”. The (over) analysis is simply me trying to figure out the same questions we all always have. “Why?”

Again, my deepest condolences and apologies if anything in the discussion trying to explain the usual procedures at Centennial, was misinterpreted as critical. The tone was intended as informative about local procedures and honestly questioning about the questions contained therein.
 
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Hello Birdie. My deepest condolences on your loss.

Apologies if my analysis seemed “off the cuff”, I assure you, having flown at Centennial for two decades, they were not.

That was one of the fastest weather changes in daylight from VFR to Low IFR I’ve seen in all of that time, and my questions about the weather change, the long run up, and other items, I assure you, were genuine, and not intended an insinuation of anything improper. I appreciate your information about the maintenance.

As you know, as pilots we have to have the ability to self-criticize and analyze each flight for what we could have done better. We do it to accidents, too.

This accident gave me enough questions as to what really happened that I drove over to Parker two days later and walked the field behind the house myself, trying to imagine the radar flight path overlaid on the terrain there to see if I could glean any insights as to what the pilot, your late husband, may have been seeing, thinking, or attempting, in those final moments.

Much of the post here was to share what “normal” procedures are at Centennial with those who don’t live and fly here.

Above all, may I please say that I would rather your husband were still with us. All we may hope for at this point is to learn from whatever the investigators find, and in my case, to hopefully teach the next generation of pilots as well as I possibly can, so a similar fate will not befall them.

Please let us know if there’s anything we can do for you. I can stand at the front door of my hangar and see the front hangar door at Arapahoe Aero and they’ve worked on my airplane. The aircraft went down just a few miles from my home.

This accident was, as they say, “too close to home”. The (over) analysis is simply me trying to figure out the same questions we all always have. “Why?”

Again, my deepest condolences and apologies if anything in the discussion trying to explain the usual procedures at Centennial, was misinterpreted as critical. The tone was intended as informative about local procedures and honestly questioning about the questions contained therein.
Hello Birdie. My deepest condolences on your loss.

Apologies if my analysis seemed “off the cuff”, I assure you, having flown at Centennial for two decades, they were not.

That was one of the fastest weather changes in daylight from VFR to Low IFR I’ve seen in all of that time, and my questions about the weather change, the long run up, and other items, I assure you, were genuine, and not intended an insinuation of anything improper. I appreciate your information about the maintenance.

As you know, as pilots we have to have the ability to self-criticize and analyze each flight for what we could have done better. We do it to accidents, too.

This accident gave me enough questions as to what really happened that I drove over to Parker two days later and walked the field behind the house myself, trying to imagine the radar flight path overlaid on the terrain there to see if I could glean any insights as to what the pilot, your late husband, may have been seeing, thinking, or attempting, in those final moments.

Much of the post here was to share what “normal” procedures are at Centennial with those who don’t live and fly here.

Above all, may I please say that I would rather your husband were still with us. All we may hope for at this point is to learn from whatever the investigators find, and in my case, to hopefully teach the next generation of pilots as well as I possibly can, so a similar fate will not befall them.

Please let us know if there’s anything we can do for you. I can stand at the front door of my hangar and see the front hangar door at Arapahoe Aero and they’ve worked on my airplane. The aircraft went down just a few miles from my home.

This accident was, as they say, “too close to home”. The (over) analysis is simply me trying to figure out the same questions we all always have. “Why?”

Again, my deepest condolences and apologies if anything in the discussion trying to explain the usual procedures at Centennial, was misinterpreted as critical. The tone was intended as informative about local procedures and honestly questioning about the questions contained therein.
 
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. I am still trying to come to terms with what happened in the short time my husband was in the air. I am trying to gather the courage to actually drive to the crash site and see it in relation to Centennial airport. I cannot reconcile that he crashed due to spatial disorientation. He always flew with autopilot on. My understanding from initial NTSB report is he was still in vfr conditions when he crashed. I am so broken hearted. It is difficult to put it all together.
 
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