Horizon Employee Who Stole A Bombardier Q400 - Another Side Of The Story

easik

easik

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easik

As some of you have already seen or heard, 4 days ago a guy named Richard Russell stole and later crashed a commercial airplane from Seattle Int Airport. This guy clearly needed some help but already too late. I made a video to share my thoughts on mental heath, an Issue I feel no one talks about.

And weird enough I just read another story of a pilot crashing an airplane into his own home after a domestic dispute with his wife. https://abcnews.go.com/US/pilot-dies-plane-crashes-utah-home-couple-inside/story

WTF is going on in the world of aviation this month? Curious if the FAA decide to take any action on this. Possibly more health screening on the horizon?
 
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easik said:
WTF is going on in the world of aviation this month? Curious what type of action the FAA takes on this, if any. Possibly more health screening on the horizon?
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As far as the correlation between the two: airplanes were used and both were suicidal. One is a suicide by a guy that is NOT a pilot and said he didn't want to hurt anyone else. One is an attempted murder by a guy that IS a pilot.

Maybe one is a security issue, but the other?

I do appreciate your concern mental health issues and treatments. I've seen some bad things over the years, and lost some friends to suicide. It's way bigger than FAA.

Hopefully, FAA will move slowly on any new requirements since only one of these incidents involved a pilot. There have been suicide-by-pilots before, and there will be more. But one a year or one every couple years is a pretty small number and might never reach zero.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Dare we add the Austin IRS Office in 2010?
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I say we dare not. Three incidents over 9+ years? I didn't get the best grades in statistics, but I would classify these observations as not statistically significant. I think the media will do a good enough job overblowing this. We don't need to help here.
 
The B of A where the student pilot crashed in the building had another theory, big helicopters were hovering above the C 152 and the downwash pushed the airplane into the building,
 
My solo flight was delayed because a guy got shot by the cops trying to hijack a plane. I finally got my flights in as soon as the airport re-opened. The local news guys were set up for their remotes, the head-shots with the airport in the background. That was me doing pattern work over their shoulders.
 
Just what is expected from the more invasive mental health examinations for pilots being mooted? Is there an expectation a certain percentage of the group going to volunteer that they are thinking about flying an aircraft into a stadium? It'll save lives?

Surprisingly, I don't think that's going to happen.

But for the sake of the children, we must do something.
 
Things can change for people very, very quickly, too. Things like when a spouse leaves or does something awful it can change how a person feels overnight. All the mental health screening in the world two weeks ago might not adequately compensate for a huge negative life situation. Some people have the stability to handle it, others may not.
 
Mental health screenings is not going to help because it’s not possible to know what someone’s mental health really is unless they are 100 percent honest.

I’m deeply concerned about the lack of access and the stigma associated with seeking out mental health treatment. Lots of people still believe seeking help means you are too weak to handle thing on your own. That’s the major issue we have in America. It’s such a warped perspective. A doctor once said to me, “ not getting help for a mental state you are in and trying to tough it out is like someone with cancer saying I’ll just brave it out. In one instance no one would encourage a person to brave it out while the other instance lots of people would.” When viewed that way, it’s pretty obvious what the issue is.

I won’t go off on a tangent about the FAA’s disgusting, antiquated and barbaric stance on mental health related issues and how they impact a pilots medical. The FAA should be ashamed of their lack of support for medications designed to help pilots who struggle with mental health and should seriously move their stance beyond the current position they have taken on this issue which is basically “ we don’t want any pilot who struggles with any aspect of the mental aspects of life even at all to seek help, take medication, or see a professional— we would rather they do nothing to help themselves.”
 
Tarheelpilot said:
If we really started screening pilots for mental problems it would ground at least half of us. Most likely that half that are actually good pilots.
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Yep. Case in point albeit a fictional one was this guy.

upload_2018-8-15_7-18-51.jpeg

He was the good kind of crazy as are many others.
 
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Don't forget the guy who flew into a tree on the White House lawn.
 
easik said:

As some of you have already seen or heard, 4 days ago a guy named Richard Russell stole and later crashed a commercial airplane from Seattle Int Airport. This guy clearly needed some help but already too late. I made a video to share my thoughts on mental heath, an Issue I feel no one talks about.

And weird enough I just read another story of a pilot crashing an airplane into his own home after a domestic dispute with his wife. https://abcnews.go.com/US/pilot-dies-plane-crashes-utah-home-couple-inside/story

WTF is going on in the world of aviation this month? Curious if the FAA decide to take any action on this. Possibly more health screening on the horizon?
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That isn't another side of the story. That is a whole new story.
 
Brad Z said:
Problem with the medical certification process is it provides a huge disincentive to seek mental health services. As a result pilots tend to go without, and self medicate through alcohol, which is an FAA approved drug.
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It's the same way with firearms licenses and some jobs. If you seek help for something like depression then you may be putting things like a firearm owner's license (we have that in IL...), a CDL, or your job at risk. I think part of it is the stigma that "oh well this is an ongoing thing and you're not going to cure it," so consequently if you have a rough patch in your life and you seek help for it, organizations like the FAA, DOT, ATF, etc don't view it as "oh good they are being proactive and managing this," they view it as "this person is damaged goods." We ought to change that.
 
So let’s say a pilot is going through divorce and having a rough time, like any other normal human being. If that pilot seemed out a counselor he could lose his medical over it? Is that correct?
 
CC268 said:
So let’s say a pilot is going through divorce and having a rough time, like any other normal human being. If that pilot seemed out a counselor he could lose his medical over it? Is that correct?
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I think it depends entirely on the details. Seeing a counselor after going through divorce, probably not a showstopper - though would still require a note and documentation sent to the FAA, possibly neurocognitive testing. If the counselor was a psychiatrist and medication was prescribed... that's where things get really dicey. What was the diagnosis? How long were the meds prescribed for?

This is, for the most part, not an issue with BasicMed... unless, of course, you develop one of the conditions requiring a one-time SI. Then you are applying for a 3rd class so it all comes out, and all has to meet FAA's approval.

This is why some people recommend that you pay the counselor out of pocket so as not to create an insurance trail... and never accept a script for psychoactive meds unless you really do need them.
 
azure said:
I think it depends entirely on the details. Seeing a counselor after going through divorce, probably not a showstopper - though would still require a note and documentation sent to the FAA, possibly neurocognitive testing. If the counselor was a psychiatrist and medication was prescribed... that's where things get really dicey. What was the diagnosis? How long were the meds prescribed for?

This is, for the most part, not an issue with BasicMed... unless, of course, you develop one of the conditions requiring a one-time SI. Then you are applying for a 3rd class so it all comes out, and all has to meet FAA's approval.

This is why some people recommend that you pay the counselor out of pocket so as not to create an insurance trail... and never accept a script for psychoactive meds unless you really do need them.
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That’s nuts...yea I was more wondering about an airline pilot with a first class medical.
 
LoLPilot said:
It's the same way with firearms licenses and some jobs. If you seek help for something like depression then you may be putting things like a firearm owner's license (we have that in IL...), a CDL, or your job at risk. I think part of it is the stigma that "oh well this is an ongoing thing and you're not going to cure it," so consequently if you have a rough patch in your life and you seek help for it, organizations like the FAA, DOT, ATF, etc don't view it as "oh good they are being proactive and managing this," they view it as "this person is damaged goods." We ought to change that.
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This is exactly how I feel. I wait for the day when the FAA gets taken to court on this because their position is abusive towards pilots who have a medical and want to seek help for any mental condition even if short lived. It’s a Supreme Court case waiting to happen!
 
Having a passion for flying machines for as long as I can remember, nothing saddens me more than seeing an airplane used to commit murder/suicide!
On the other hand, nothing gives me greater relief when it does occur than knowing that the ******* only took out himself, without wounding or killing others.

Yeah I know, mental illness and all :rolleyes:
 
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CC268 said:
So let’s say a pilot is going through divorce and having a rough time, like any other normal human being. If that pilot seemed out a counselor he could lose his medical over it? Is that correct?
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One of the issues comes down to the written diagnosis.

A lot of times counselors will label something as depression because then the insurance will cover it 100%. They think they're doing the person a favor. And, in many cases, that may be the case. However I suspect that those counselors also don't realize the potential implications of what that can do for the person's ability to get or maintain certain licenses or other certifications.

Society has a stigma against seeking therapy. It's getting better, but it's been around a long time. When I was in 3rd grade my school suggested (and my mom complied) that I go to a therapist for a while. Mostly I was having issues with my father not being around. It did absolutely no good, but that's another story. Anyway I mentioned it in passing once in front of my grandmother and a family friend, and my mom vehemently scolded me for saying anything about it. I wasn't supposed to let anyone, especially family, know. And they did look down on me (and my mom) for it.

It's not just the FAA - as a society we should be encouraging people to get help.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
One of the issues comes down to the written diagnosis.

A lot of times counselors will label something as depression because then the insurance will cover it 100%. They think they're doing the person a favor. And, in many cases, that may be the case. However I suspect that those counselors also don't realize the potential implications of what that can do for the person's ability to get or maintain certain licenses or other certifications.

Society has a stigma against seeking therapy. It's getting better, but it's been around a long time. When I was in 3rd grade my school suggested (and my mom complied) that I go to a therapist for a while. Mostly I was having issues with my father not being around. It did absolutely no good, but that's another story. Anyway I mentioned it in passing once in front of my grandmother and a family friend, and my mom vehemently scolded me for saying anything about it. I wasn't supposed to let anyone, especially family, know. And they did look down on me (and my mom) for it.

It's not just the FAA - as a society we should be encouraging people to get help.
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I completely agree.
 
jspilot said:
This is exactly how I feel. I wait for the day when the FAA gets taken to court on this because their position is abusive towards pilots who have a medical and want to seek help for any mental condition even if short lived. It’s a Supreme Court case waiting to happen!
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Unfortunately that court stuff costs a lot of money. More than most have to spend
 
jspilot said:
This is exactly how I feel. I wait for the day when the FAA gets taken to court on this because their position is abusive towards pilots who have a medical and want to seek help for any mental condition even if short lived. It’s a Supreme Court case waiting to happen!
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I doubt if such a case would ever see a courtroom let alone SCOTUS. So somebody is going to tell the judge “I didn’t get the psych help I needed because I’d rather fly”? That’s just crazy. Pun only partially intended.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I doubt if such a case would ever see a courtroom let alone SCOTUS. So somebody is going to tell the judge “I didn’t get the psych help I needed because I’d rather fly”? That’s just crazy. Pun only partially intended.
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No you could not be more wrong. I guarantee their are many pilots who fly professionally who can’t get the help they want because as soon as they do their career is over! The issue is if you do seek help for a mental condition and take medication for such a condition the FAA can/will go after your medical for such a thing. It’s abusive, criminal and should be changed. Imagine if such a stance was taken when someone had a physical issue?!? Often times mental issues can be helped a great deal through simple medications or therapy but the FAA would rather punish you for these actions rather than encourage them.

The FAA’s entire position on medical related issues is so archaic and antiquated that it’s appals me they fail to revisit many issues. BasicMed was a great step forward and shows progression in the right direction.
 
Anymouse said:
So, did the plane get forfeited?
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Not sure. All of the criminal stuff in Florida was dropped due to various technicalities. It took a number of years for the FAA to yank his certificate as they appealed through all the layers...probably a good five years..can't remember.

A year after this incident - my dad flew his A9 Callair back down to Florida. He had to swing by the FSDO to get an authorization to pull banners there with it...and they were actively working to take his certificates over the drunken thing the year before...but they still had to issue the authorization. He ended up pulling banners with the Callair for the same company that owned the Cub in that incident. The owner, being a drinking man himself, was understanding and had no hard feelings.

All happened because of a girl...a bet...and tequila. Didn't help that the airport was across the street from the bar...Also didn't help that the girl called the cops as soon as she realized that he was actually going to do what they bet on.
 
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