Passengers Report Stolen SeaTac Plane, Grounded Flights

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slacktide said:
I was handed the FCOM and told to have at it. Capt. was on the flight deck the whole time.

Guidance and instruction are available on YouTube accessed via your smartphone.
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That might have something to do with it. My ramp days predated youtube. Boy I feel old now.
 
ok, who left the key in the ignition?

Seriously, it seems that Flight Sim geeks think that they can fly an actual plane. The takeoff is fairly easy. But then you hve to land it and there's no reest button. Oh oh.
 
orange said:
ok, who left the key in the ignition?

Seriously, it seems that Flight Sim geeks think that they can fly an actual plane. The takeoff is fairly easy. But then you hve to land it and there's no reest button. Oh oh.
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He wasn’t planning to land.

Edit: Just like the last time.
 
Could a novice at our airline get an Airbus from a dark airplane to airborn??
Possibly, but not by any checklist in the cockpit. The checklist does not include flows that are needed to achieve a start.
Can they learn it from an internet simulator? Very likely the answer is yes.
Now, make no mistake, they would not be flying the airplane correctly and may be all over the place during taxi. But *could* they get it airborne from a well done flight simulator? I think so. Could they land the aircraft? I doubt it withought serious damage.
 
denverpilot said:
Not even going to bother to click. Knew that was coming. Maybe someone at a security lobby will give her a nice cheese basket.
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As always, she has a ready analysis of all facets of the incident. I doubt she has any current and factual information about how overnight maintenance shifts operate or what security measures are in place. That doesn't keep her from disgorging commentary like a nickel-in-the-slot amusement game.

"Though aircraft mechanics have broad access and routinely taxi planes along the tarmac, Schiavo said, ground crew members are not supposed to be allowed inside cockpits, which have locking doors.

But she said those security procedures are not always observed, especially for smaller commuter aircraft such as the Bombardier Q400. “It can be a little more casual and a little loosey-goosey, especially if they are doing overnight maintenance,” she said."
 
Dav8or said:
Instead of worrying about background checks, psych evaluations and personal protocol, why not just consider locks on cabin doors and ignition keys? You know, kind of like every other vehicle on the planet.

If someone left a car in an open parking lot with the keys in the ignition and the doors unlocked and a messed up kid got in, went tearing around the town and ended up crashing into a tree after the cops chased him a bit, do think people's first reaction would be- "We really need to think about security and background checks and psych evaluations and new protocols where somebody is always watching somebody else." ? Most would say- "Lock your damn cars people!"
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Causes more problems than it fixes. Sometimes **** happens.
 
I guess we will see. I don't think things are gonna get significantly worse for recreational pistons. Part 121 hosting airports? Yup, those guys will see more kabuki.
 
Hell, let's go real old school. No self start capability in airplanes, for the sake of the children. Huffer carts for all my friends. Oh and no more TRs either. If your airplane doesn't drag chute or aerobrake for landing, you're nobody.

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ARFlyer said:
Only way to really fix this is better employee preemployment screening and two deep access. Basically, make it illegal to have solo ground access to any 121 commercial aircraft by non pilot personnel.

The dude had access rights to the aircraft. So by the nature of his job anything you add to the aircraft to lock it out he would have access to.

The whole ban flight sims nonsense is stupid. I've met a lot of ground guys who were aviation geeks that, for various reasons, couldn't be pilots.
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I believe he said he had fooled around with flying "video games". There are a number of those that are not realistic as sims. He may not have used flight sims. But also are they going to ban books on learning to fly, etc, etc? It's one incident, and there really is no way to do that in a free country is there?
 
He'd been despondent ever since it was announced last month that turboprop passenger service is coming to an end and he just wanted to prove to everyone that they are still quite capable aircraft.
 
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3393RP said:
Congress is going to do one of its occasional stirrings to life, hold some hearings, and enact more ineffective laws. More legislation by knee jerk, just what we need.
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Yep.

That’s exactly how we got most of our gun control legislation. Standard practice for congress.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Causes more problems than it fixes. Sometimes **** happens.
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Oh yeah, you're right. My car, my truck, my boat, my motorcycle and even my Mooney are absolute problematic nightmares because they all have ignition switches on them. Then there are those with the locking doors. My god, it's a miracle I can get anywhere in these things!

Yes, sometimes **** happens. Sometimes really big **** happens and then there is fall out and consequences that could have been prevented by simple things.
 
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Dav8or said:
Oh yeah, you're right. My car, my truck, my boat, my motorcycle and even my Mooney are absolute problematic nightmares because they all have ignition switches on them. Then there are those with the locking doors. My god, it's a miracle I can get anywhere in these things!

Yes, sometimes **** happens. Sometimes really big **** happens and then there is fall out and consequences that could have been prevented by simple things.
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Those are all your private property. It does not correlate to this situation.
 
Dav8or said:
Oh yeah, you're right. My car, my truck, my boat, my motorcycle and even my Mooney are absolute problematic nightmares because they all have ignition switches on them. Then there are those with the locking doors. My god, it's a miracle I can get anywhere in these things!

Yes, sometimes **** happens. Sometimes really big **** happens and then there is fall out and consequences that could have been prevented by simple things.
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Those are all meant for your use and your use only. Take the FBO situation, where a plane is back, its next renter is waiting, but the previous renter still has the key in their pocket and they're standing out on the ramp talking to their buddy, or they dropped it somewhere out on the ramp and now everyone has to go look for it. Apply that to common carriers.

Other vehicles that don't have keys - tanks, Humvees, and most other military vehicles. And they have been stolen! Nobody started making outcry about lapses in our tank security.
 
The only solution is to replace all ground support staff with robots. Which will at least work until the maintenance engineers for those robots tinker with their code so they steal airplanes. Then we will need virtual locks and keys on the robots to prevent them from being tinkered with...
 
LongRoadBob said:
I believe he said he had fooled around with flying "video games". There are a number of those that are not realistic as sims. He may not have used flight sims. But also are they going to ban books on learning to fly, etc, etc? It's one incident, and there really is no way to do that in a free country is there?
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I don’t think he was a flight sim geek because he did not know much about the systems in the Q400 and there is a highly detailed addon for the Q available for P3D and FSX. Even has working circuit breakers and it’s supposedly a “study level” sim as far as flight modeling and system modeling goes. I have this addon but I am not qualified to say how accurate it is since the biggest thing I have flown for real is a PA28 lol
 
flyingron said:
As I stated, I bet there's a book in the cockpit with the procedure.
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Can't speak for Horizon, but most airlines these days have gone to EFBs, and the paper is gone from the cockpit. That said, none of this stuff is a secret - between YouTube, flight sims, or even just asking a pilot for information - it'd be trivial to get what you need.
 
Half Fast said:
Yep.

That’s exactly how we got most of our gun control legislation. Standard practice for congress.
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Sure, that's the same thing as a one time incident....

Average of eight kids shot by unsecured firearms daily...
Tons (like 40 per two weeks, reported) gun fails where idiots that don't have gun "control" shoot themselves and others by accident, and then you have the cyclic mass shootings.

So which of the "gun control laws" do you feel was enacted in one isolated incident, and what effect? It's not as if it is hard for either a responsible gun owner OR a moron that doesn't even have basic safety consciousness to buy a gun.

It would be like advocating everyone has a right (with no hinder, no exceptions) to buy and fly an airplane. No need to take lessons, prove you can fly, pass a test. Just any Clem that wants to can go out and fly.

Making laws after one incident is a bad thing in general. Gun incidents are daily occurrences.
 
If you build a better mousetrap, the mice will just get smarter.

Exhibit A: Viruses that are resistant to new vaccines.

Exhibit B: Bugs and weeds that survive application of insecticides and pesticides.

Exhibit C: Computer hackers who beat firewalls.

The list goes on . . .
 
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