Kind of a Sad Commentary About our Young People

The high school diploma used to be that device. But ever since the idea of "No Child Left Behind" and the such, the bar is so low everyone has one. So what is the next bar, the college degree. But not all degrees are equal, and many are as equally useless.

College has really just become High School 2.0, just another way to put off responsibility and adulthood for another four years. The bad thing is these kids are allowed to borrow to the hilt to fund the first four years of their adult life, and most are totally unprepared for it. My alma mater prided itself on being a "highly selective" school and having a high graduation rate...50% of freshman graduate.

Not really. Too many people forget how much technology and knowledge has become standard in jobs, and how dual incomes have moved a greater portion of "standard" education to schools leaving less room for actual education. Also "social" promotion was common when i was growing up in the 70s and 80s.

Tim
 
Financial independence and retired early is the greatest gift I hope to give my children, but, when I talk about it, people think I’m nuts. As they cannot understand it.

They don’t care enough.

Not really. Too many people forget how much technology and knowledge has become standard in jobs, and how dual incomes have moved a greater portion of "standard" education to schools leaving less room for actual education. Also "social" promotion was common when i was growing up in the 70s and 80s.

Care to define “standard” education?

Social promotion is still alive and kicking pretty much everywhere. What makes you think it stopped?
 
The high school diploma used to be that device. But ever since the idea of "No Child Left Behind" and the such, the bar is so low everyone has one. So what is the next bar, the college degree. But not all degrees are equal, and many are as equally useless.

This week the local news rag had two articles about high schools:
- One how 6 of the states 10 best high schools are located in our 3 county area.
- The other how the state University system finds high school graduates to lack credentials required for admission. You have to either have AP courses or a year at the community college to even get in.

The local CC has credit articulation with the state system. According to an acquaintance who is a trustee 70% of CC admissions require remedial training in something or the other . But hey, we have a 94% HS graduation rate. That's awesome, right ?
 
This week the local news rag had two articles about high schools:
- One how 6 of the states 10 best high schools are located in our 3 county area.
- The other how the state University system finds high school graduates to be lacking credentials for admission. You have to either have AP courses or a year at the community college to even get in.

The local CC has credit articulation with the state system. According to an acquaintance who is a trustee 70% of CC admissions require remedial training in something or the other . But hey, we have a 94% HS graduation rate. That's awesome, right ?

The administrator of a local high school wanted a zero dropout rate. Wouldn't let a kid fail or dropout to keep that statistic. Even my BIL that skipped school more than he ever attended, and when he did show up was usually drunk and didn't do any assignments still was allowed to graduate. But hey, they had a zero dropout percentage. :rolleyes:
 
This week the local news rag had two articles about high schools:
- One how 6 of the states 10 best high schools are located in our 3 county area.
- The other how the state University system finds high school graduates to lack credentials required for admission. You have to either have AP courses or a year at the community college to even get in.

We’re the reporters from the state University’s journalism school, perhaps? LOL.
 
The administrator of a local high school wanted a zero dropout rate. Wouldn't let a kid fail or dropout to keep that statistic. Even my BIL that skipped school more than he ever attended, and when he did show up was usually drunk and didn't do any assignments still was allowed to graduate. But hey, they had a zero dropout percentage. :rolleyes:

Otoh, last year, based on state testing, a third of Baltimore City high schools had zero students listed as proficient in math. I can't believe that 100% of the kids attending those schools are dummies. So there has to be some screwup at the level of the school that contributes to this.
 
Care to define “standard” education?

The basics: how to balance a checking account, cooking, how to vote, how to be polite.....

Social promotion is still alive and kicking pretty much everywhere. What makes you think it stopped?

Yeah, I meant it is not a recent phenomenon, as implied by the post about No Child Left Behind. It has been going on for at least forty years.

Tim
 
When hiring someone, that is extremely valuable information.

"Let's see, should I hire this guy with no credentials or evidence of ability, or should I hire this guy that has proven that he can hack it and is trainable?"


It’s true, but that’s a very expensive way of proving that you can learn. While learning about 50% of unnecessary information. Hell. It’d be cheaper for me to pay the employer a few thousand bucks to teach me what they want me to do.
 
Hmmm, interesting perspective. You might have something there. It’s undiciplined parenting. It’s not this generation, it’s the prior. And who raised the prior generation?

Sins of the father and all that.

Both parents working, not enough time in the day and no energy left to do the right things?
 
It’s true, but that’s a very expensive way of proving that you can learn. While learning about 50% of unnecessary information. Hell. It’d be cheaper for me to pay the employer a few thousand bucks to teach me what they want me to do.

Not to mention, that in the world of Google, Wiki, and Youtube you can learn nearly anything that a college can offer for free and faster
 
Otoh, last year, based on state testing, a third of Baltimore City high schools had zero students listed as proficient in math. I can't believe that 100% of the kids attending those schools are dummies. So there has to be some screwup at the level of the school that contributes to this.

My friends consider me a math whiz. I never thought I was until I got roped into administering pre-hire aptitude tests for a company I was working for about 18 years ago. The exam only tested for basic arithmetic and very basic algebra and geometry because those were the only math skills the job required. Those subjects would correspond to Freshman and Sophomore high school math in New York.

The passing grade was 65 percent. More than 80 percent of applicants failed.

I never got less than an "A" in a math course in high school in college, but I never thought I was any kind of a whiz. In retrospect, I think the reason I found math easy was that I went to a technical high school wherein it would have been impossible to pass the shop courses without a sound grasp of math. Sheet metal shop, machine shop, electrical / electronics shop, hydraulics shop, and so forth all required what in retrospect was fairly advanced math.

Also in retrospect, I think the fact that we were applying the math to actual work made it easier to grasp. The math of calculating sheet metal bend allowances, for example, makes a lot more sense when you're actually bending sheet metal. The math of calculating resistances in a circuit makes more sense when you can measure the results with a multimeter. The math of sine waves makes more sense when you can manipulate them and see the results on an oscilloscope. Etcetera.

A lot of people also think I'm a mechanical whiz. I think that's probably more true than my being a math whiz, but the standards people use in bestowing that honor are ridiculously low. When I mention to some people (mainly younger ones) that I do my own oil changes, they think I'm a mechanical genius. When I mentioned that I changed the motor mounts on an old Saturn with nothing except a scissor jack, a piece of 2x4, and some wrenches to my teen-aged niece, she thought I was a mechanical god.

To me, that's silly. I was overhauling engines when I was 14 or 15. Changing motor mounts in a Saturn is a yawner. But young people today, unless they go to vocational high schools, don't have that experience.

Now if you want to talk to a math whiz, that would be my dad, who dropped out of high school and joined the Army as soon as he was old enough. But when he got out, he became a carpenter, and that's when he became a math whiz. Bad things happen when carpenters don't know their math. Eventually dad earned a GED and a college degree. Like me, he never got less than an "A" on a math course; and like me, he attributes that to having had to actually use math all his life, not just learn it to put a course behind him.

I'd hazard a guess that if you tested the graduates of decent vocational high schools against graduates of "academic" high schools, the vocational school kids would come out ahead in math -- assuming that the tests were result-oriented rather than process-oriented. I took math through Calculus with straight A's, but I doubt I could pass an elementary school Common-Core math competency exam. I'd get all the results right, but I'd fail on the process parts. It's all bass-ackwards and convoluted, as far as I can tell. But I'd get the results right, and I'd do it without a calculator.

Rich
 
Both parents working, not enough time in the day and no energy left to do the right things?

Maybe so.

Also, the smartphone phenomenon started 10 years ago or so, will be interesting to see the adults that will generate (parents glued to their devices, children that can’t tolerate being away from devices).
 
Both parents working, not enough time in the day and no energy left to do the right things?


I can certainly see that. Society doesn't seem to find a lot of value in staying-at-home anymore. Maybe that's because the majority are all loaded up with debt before they even considered doing it and can't afford it.
 
Otoh, last year, based on state testing, a third of Baltimore City high schools had zero students listed as proficient in math. I can't believe that 100% of the kids attending those schools are dummies. So there has to be some screwup at the level of the school that contributes to this.

Oh, I can believe it. Baltimore Public schools? Parts of Baltimore are really bad, both economically and education-wise. While it does have some excellent schools, it also has some near the bottom of the barrel.

https://www.wbaltv.com/article/8-baltimore-schools-labeled-persistently-dangerous-1/7075670

https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/the-20-worst-public-schools-in-america.html/

Here's a report on the middle school ranked 4th worst in the nation:
https://www.greatschools.org/maryland/baltimore/161-Booker-T.-Washington-Middle-School/
 
Also, the smartphone phenomenon started 10 years ago or so, will be interesting to see the adults that will generate (parents glued to their devices, children that can’t tolerate being away from devices).

XKCD's "The Pace of Modern Life"

the_pace_of_modern_life.png

(It's a huge image so click the spoiler)
 
I have seen a few studies that breaks longer than three weeks cause students to start forgetting material and increasing review time. The optimum is closer to two weeks.
The year around schooling for kids in NC from k-8 is based on this. You get X weeks of schooling then Y weeks off. If done right, can also reduce the capital costs for buildings, since in their case 1/4 of the students are always on break.

Tim

DCPS offers an extended school year schedule at certain schools for a couple of yars now. It turns out that this is easier said than done:

- first, the teachers union filed a grievance because working in the summer isn't their thing
- it costs about 500k per school to keep the HVAC going through the summer
- once the school year for other schools in the system ends, truancy rates at the extended schools went through the roof
- in the end, standardized testing of the 'extended' students vs. the standard school year didn't show any benefit to taking away summers.

Now there are a couple of explanations why this doesnt seem to work in DC, and maybe in a less effed up environment this can be more beneficial, but so far I'll keep in on the list of 'things we thought was a good idea and that should have worked but didn't'.
 
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