Buying first plane... Any buyer's agent recommendations?

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RunnerDRB

Filing Flight Plan
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RunnerDRB
Hi All,

I'm a low time PPL (80 hours) looking to purchase my first plane. Renting is kind of a pain in the tail (mainly because of scheduling), I have the means to buy, and I think I'm ready to jump in.

I looked at a Cardinal a few days ago, but quickly encountered a couple issues that have made me think I might need some pro help.

Anyone have any good recommendations for buyer's agents or brokers? I'm looking for a 172, 177, Cherokee 180, Archer, Warrior, or maybe AA5B. Main mission will be to build time, study and pursue IFR, and some short cross country weekend trips.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Dave
 
Cardinal Flyers Online. Great group. There’s a few guys on there that will broker or do a prebuilt for you in the Cardinal world.


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RunnerDRB said:
Hi All,

I'm a low time PPL (80 hours) looking to purchase my first plane. Renting is kind of a pain in the tail (mainly because of scheduling), I have the means to buy, and I think I'm ready to jump in.

I looked at a Cardinal a few days ago, but quickly encountered a couple issues that have made me think I might need some pro help.

Anyone have any good recommendations for buyer's agents or brokers? I'm looking for a 172, 177, Cherokee 180, Archer, Warrior, or maybe AA5B. Main mission will be to build time, study and pursue IFR, and some short cross country weekend trips.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Dave
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Where do you live? I know a good guy at Spruce Creek near Daytona Beach.

A little more advice, if you hire an agent, don't limit him to the trainer planes you listed. Let him help you find a plane that he thinks you can afford and you will like for a long time. That is what I did, and I was happy about it.
 
You’re going to find with that wide a net in types that you’ll have to engage multiple experts on those types.

You might want to pare down the list a bit before paying an expert to give advice.

And while there’s lots of good pro advice out there, ultimately nobody will care as much about the outcome as you, so you want to learn as much as you can about the type yourself before plunking down cash.
 
Do the research and market analysis and due diligence yourself, if you don’t have time to do all that, or don’t think you can, ownership is probably a bad idea for you.
 
You have all the folks at PoA to give you well-reasoned, objective, factual advice. Why use a broker?

Seriously, you don't need to pay a guy to help you buy a basic single. The learning curve is not that steep. Jump on in!
 
Narrow your choices,then do your own research,also if you find a type you think you want to purchase,you might consider joining that type club.if you mention a type on this forum ,you can get plenty of feedback.
 
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James331 said:
Do the research and market analysis and due diligence yourself, if you don’t have time to do all that, or don’t think you can, ownership is probably a bad idea for you.
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When buying a house, I always get home inspections, even though I could learn what it takes to be a home inspector. Division of labor allows me to specialize, and my time is better spent performing my specialty, or learning something that would allow me to do it even better, thus get paid more. OP could be in that situation.
 
trenton said:
When buying a house, I always get home inspections, even though I could learn what it takes to be a home inspector. Division of labor allows me to specialize, and my time is better spent performing my specialty, or learning something that would allow me to do it even better, thus get paid more. OP could be in that situation.
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And on a plane you still get a prebuy

Heck speaking of homes I had to threaten to fire my realtor to get her to make the offers I wanted to make, ended up getting the house for WAAAY less than she would have, if it wasn’t for the silly system and how sheep think I’d have forgone using a realtor at all.
 
Trenton is right... I'm a busy, busy man, as I'm sure most of you can relate.

Having said that, I've done a pretty solid amount of research that has led me to the types I'm considering. The challenge really isn't figuring out which one, it's finding one that is in good condition, with complete logs, at a decent price. This doesn't seem to be a buyer's market, and a little help might go a long way, especially if there are people who specialize in finding good planes. ;)

Thanks for all the replies so far! Pretty solid community. I'm in Northern Ohio, by the way.
 
James331 said:
And on a plane you still get a prebuy
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Good point. I was equating the two, but obviously, very different things. I certainly don't rely on an agent to funnel me houses to look at.
 
Just to be clear, all I was saying is you won’t find many experts on all of those types. You’ll have to ask specifically for references for each major type.
 
denverpilot said:
Just to be clear, all I was saying is you won’t find many experts on all of those types. You’ll have to ask specifically for references for each major type.
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A buyers agent doesn't necessarily need to be an expert in all types. He needs a very good general knowledge, and he needs a good network. My broker found my plane before it went on the market, and he was able to get me a dealer's discount, which more than offset the commission. Actually, I didn't even pay a commission on the purchase because this agent sold my previous plane. And not that this will help the OP, but because I sold and bought through the same dealer, he was able to arrange an exchange so I didn't have to pay sales tax on the value of my sale (trade-in).
 
You can tell a lot from log books. Go shopping. Don't buy anything until you seen several panes and looked through several logs. You will learn volumes. Like back to back annuals from the same guy with nothing broken... screams coffee shop annual and lots of deferred maintenance.

Put the word out on your field and with local maintenance shops. Every good IA knows some client that's thinking of selling.
 
Brokers, just like real estate agents, just increase costs. Sure, I use a home inspector. But only after I've checked out the house myself in detail. Even if a broker finds a plane for you, it would still be a good idea to hire someone to inspect it. And don't trust a broker that is representing both sides...

Have I mentioned I hate real estate agents? Never understood why people use buyer's agents. Or even sellers agents.
 
JOhnH said:
A buyers agent doesn't necessarily need to be an expert in all types. He needs a very good general knowledge, and he needs a good network. My broker found my plane before it went on the market, and he was able to get me a dealer's discount, which more than offset the commission. Actually, I didn't even pay a commission on the purchase because this agent sold my previous plane. And not that this will help the OP, but because I sold and bought through the same dealer, he was able to arrange an exchange so I didn't have to pay sales tax on the value of my sale (trade-in).
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Agreed on that. I was thinking he wants an expert on the types to help decide which type he wants.

Once you know that you talk to or read up on type expert stuff.

With a long list of types you may or may not find a broker that knows jack about the type. The broker has an incentive to sell something to make their commission.

I always look at what the incentive is for the pro I’m hiring. In this case, if I wanted a type expert I would not (necessarily) want a broker doing that part.

That’s all I’ve been saying. Narrow down types, then look at type specific stuff, if that’s all good, use a broker or direct or whatever you want to use to make the purchase.

But keep the learning about type specific stuff out of the purchase unless the broker is known to only work selling that type or has some other reason they know that type really well.

Our airplane was bought through a broker. He’s good, but he’s not a type expert. In the case of the 182, the mechanical experts easiest accessible were probably CPA people back then. Now that John has passed, don’t know.

Our broker knew nothing about the typical mechanical problems for the TYPE other than biggies like bent firewalls and such from bad landings. The info gained in the CPA type course was light years ahead of where most brokers are, unless they’d also taken the course.

Type clubs usually have the deep experts.

They’re usually worth joining as a general statement and digging through their forum history and whatever documentation they have usually pays off.
 
UngaWunga said:
Brokers, just like real estate agents, just increase costs. Sure, I use a home inspector. But only after I've checked out the house myself in detail. Even if a broker finds a plane for you, it would still be a good idea to hire someone to inspect it. And don't trust a broker that is representing both sides...

Have I mentioned I hate real estate agents? Never understood why people use buyer's agents. Or even sellers agents.
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If one buys a home with a mortgage, the lender typically requires a home inspection. ;) I don't know if lenders require an annual inspection or a specific pre-buy from a certificated A&P or IA, but if a guy is looking at buying an airplane of the types listed by the OP then that guy will likely benefit more from saving that "buyer's agent" fee to spend on go-juice for said airplane.
 
Lachlan said:
If one buys a home with a mortgage, the lender typically requires a home inspection.
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They do, but I've paid for an inspection before I made an offer on my purchases.
 
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