Midair over Everglades

Sundancer said:
Our eyes/brains are built to detect relative motion, especially in peripheral vision. We tend to miss targets without relative motion.

I'm not "shocked" there aren't more mid-airs, there or anywhere else. Our planes are pretty small, and it's a rare event in any case. Two miles is a real long miss. Not at all convinced ADS-B will move the needle much at all, at least fir GA.
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Sunday evening I was watching Flightradar24 and listening to ATC for the arrivals into Oshkosh and could not believe how many planes were jammed into a relatively small airspace at the same altitude. Multiple times the controller turned everyone around because there was insufficient spacing; looked like a hornets nest that got kicked over. Sure seemed like a mid-air waiting to happen, especially when I would see someone turn around and start flying into the line between Fisk and Pickett. It was pretty crazy to watch but in the end no NTSB accident reports.
 
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benyflyguy said:
ACFI on one plane. FAA examiner on another. Can’t imagine they didn’t have adsb. How does this happen??? Very sad. I’ll never forget when I was training out of Daytona. We would fly back and forth to Flagler. That was where it was dangerous. Not a lot of great English. Someone heading back from Flagler and we were heading into area. Heard guy on radio but hard to understand. Looking looking looking. Calling callin g calling. Can’t understand a word this guy is saying. Finally we break right And see he was headed right for us!! Probably less then 2 miles. Scary. He was right on that horizon line just couldnt pick up. This was pre ADSB days
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You seem to be under the impression that ADSB will be a cure all for anything mid-air related. Sadly, that’s incorrect.
 
Ryanb said:
You seem to be under the impression that ADSB will be a cure all for anything mid-air related. Sadly, that’s incorrect.
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No I’m not under that impression but I would think when used properly by all it should give a lot more situational awareness in a practice area.
 
tawood said:
If true, I can only say from my experience that head-on is tough for see-and-avoid...I've several times had aircraft that came head-on, that I only saw AFTER they went by.
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I always had students run the landing light in the practice area AND whenever in the airport traffic area. Don't see that much anymore. Wonder why? Have bulbs become that expensive!!o_O
 
old cfi said:
I always had students run the landing light in the practice area AND whenever in the airport traffic area. Don't see that much anymore. Wonder why? Have bulbs become that expensive!!o_O
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Our club has pulse lights for this reason
 
Shepherd said:
Just asking. No one goes off shore to practice?
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When I instructed at Eglin AFB Aero Club I'd get cleared into a Restricted area not in use, had a lot of airspace to myself. Didn't have to worry about other traffic either.
 
benyflyguy said:
No I’m not under that impression but I would think when used properly by all it should give a lot more situational awareness in a practice area.
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You can use it properly and a ground failure can break the link between UAT and 1090, and there’s no outage or NOTAM system on that.

Someone can be killed who was “using it properly” and never have seen a single warning right up until the NTSB report pins it on them for “failure to see and avoid”.

It’s not a properly engineered safety system.
 
denverpilot said:
You can use it properly and a ground failure can break the link between UAT and 1090, and there’s no outage or NOTAM system on that.

Someone can be killed who was “using it properly” and never have seen a single warning right up until the NTSB report pins it on them for “failure to see and avoid”.

It’s not a properly engineered safety system.
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Yet we are almost being forced to install it . . . . While the airlines can ask for extensions . . . .
 
old cfi said:
I always had students run the landing light in the practice area AND whenever in the airport traffic area. Don't see that much anymore. Wonder why? Have bulbs become that expensive!!o_O
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My landing light and wingtip wig-wag lights are on from the moment I take the runway until I pull off the runway after landing.
 
DesertNomad said:
My landing light and wingtip wig-wag lights are on from the moment I take the runway until I pull off the runway after landing.
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The beauty of LEDs! My landing light goes on and off with the Master switch. We did turn it off a little over an hour into my IFR recert when the A&P noticed it shining on the hangar door. Other than that, it's pretty much been on with the Master the last four years.
 
Hank S said:
Not many landmarks for ground reference maneuvers, those blasted waves just keep moving . . .
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There is a lot more stuff out there to fly around than you think.
One of the great advantages of doing turns around a point off shore is you can actually see what things look like at 600 feet. ;)
You also learn quickly that the engine runs just fine over water.

umm , until it doesn't. No matter. It's all good.
 
Shepherd said:
There is a lot more stuff out there to fly around than you think.
One of the great advantages of doing turns around a point off shore is you can actually see what things look like at 600 feet. ;)
You also learn quickly that the engine runs just fine over water.

umm , until it doesn't. No matter. It's all good.
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Students doing maneuvers over the water isn’t a great idea:
1) The horizon is often lost in haze along the coast in Florida. It can be very disorienting especially for new pilots.
2) Calm water can act like mirror (Remember the tragic loss of a Mustang over a lake? It was in Texas I believe.)
3) Below 3,000 feet with winds coming from the ocean the plane is going to get a lot of salt and related corrosion.
4) Ditch & Flip: 600’ or so isn’t a lot of gliding distance to get to shore.
5) Popular beach areas like Miami are often packed with people.
 
3393RP said:
Why would the FAA pull their certificate because two aircraft collided?I fail to see how a midair collision reflects on the maintenance operation of a flight school.
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when you have incident after incident and it is their instructors and students causing these problems eventually you have to blame the school. They are overly represented in NTSB investigations in South Florida.
 
Trevor3431 said:
when you have incident after incident and it is their instructors and students causing these problems eventually you have to blame the school. They are overly represented in NTSB investigations in South Florida.
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While it may or may not be true there, that’s horrid statistical manipulation.

I’m sure ERAU is “over-represented” compared to “Bob’s Flying School” who hasn’t taught more than one student per year.

Have to be very careful with exactly how you came to the “over-represented” number and show a relationship to flight hours.
 
It has been really quiet here at KIMM, most traffic was dean students. Dean has shut down.
I have personally witnessed dean students sitting in airplanes with engines running for a hour. They are running up the Hobbs without actually flying. I have never seen a dean student that was a US citizen, they are a rating mill for mostly Indian/ pakistani students.
One day we had to educate one of dean’s instructors that a right pattern at KIMM was a bad idea. This guy saw a example of a right pattern in a book and took it that all airports had right patterns. Amazing.
 
denverpilot said:
While it may or may not be true there, that’s horrid statistical manipulation.

I’m sure ERAU is “over-represented” compared to “Bob’s Flying School” who hasn’t taught more than one student per year.

Have to be very careful with exactly how you came to the “over-represented” number and show a relationship to flight hours.
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I agree the "over-represented" doesn't mean a whole lot until you take into account they are a part 141 operator, and if you look at the massive number of Part 61 and Part 141 flight schools in South Florida combined they have nowhere near the problems Dean International had. Just their 8 FAA enforcement actions alone over the past 10 years should have raised red flags. I just think some of the issues they have been involved in are not your normal fight school problems and should not have happened but this is only my personal opinion.
 
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