What do you learn on X-Country?

TimRF79

TimRF79

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Tim
Often I have read that "you learn a lot" on a x-country flight.
Could someone please elaborate what you learn on those trips?
 
Without writing a book.....

How to navigate, get into different airports, get flight following, lost procedures, situational awareness, ADM, and the list goes on and on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Pilotage, Dead Reckoning, putting a sectional to a practical use, engine performance (leaning, fuel flow, fuel burn etc.) learning and understanding the concepts needed to plan a cross-country flight, ADM, gaining experience talking to ATC (flight following etc)... the list goes on.

Haven’t you been through the paces before?
 
a whole lotta things that either was never taught during primary or only the basics were touched on. and oh yeah, the magenta line.
 
Ryanb said:
Pilotage, Dead Reckoning, putting a sectional to a practical use, engine performance (leaning, fuel flow, fuel burn etc.) learning and understanding the concepts needed to plan a cross-country flight, ADM, gaining experience talking to ATC (flight following etc)... the list goes on.

Haven’t you been through the paces before?
Click to expand...
Hmm... maybe I am doing it wrong..

I plan my flight, load the plan into the 430, climb to altitude and turn AP on.
From there on out it is monitoring of the plane.
Engine performance matches the POH.
ATC doesn't talk much to me other than to change frequencies and confirm altitude.

What is ADM?
 
Even during those ded reckoning days, I learned to bring some music....
 
yes, I think you learn a ton and have to "put it all together" in a CC. it makes everything real. airspaces, TFRs, winds aloft, frequencies, terrain, weather changing in time and location, choosing airports and how to approach them based on your route and their patterns, thinking through ground facilities and what ifs (do they have fuel, will it be open, can i walk to town for lunch or is it too far, etc)
 
TimRF79 said:
Hmm... maybe I am doing it wrong..

I plan my flight, load the plan into the 430, climb to altitude and turn AP on.
From there on out it is monitoring of the plane.
Engine performance matches the POH.
ATC doesn't talk much to me other than to change frequencies and confirm altitude.

What is ADM?
Click to expand...

sounds like you know it all. well, except what ADM is.
 
One of the big ones is weather and when to dodge and when to divert and when to land

It’s one thing keeping an eye on the weather right around your home drome but it’s another when you’re going distances, especially when it’s starting off in the flat lands and cross mountains.
 
TimRF79 said:
Hmm... maybe I am doing it wrong..

I plan my flight, load the plan into the 430, climb to altitude and turn AP on.
From there on out it is monitoring of the plane.
Engine performance matches the POH.
ATC doesn't talk much to me other than to change frequencies and confirm altitude.

What is ADM?
Click to expand...
Yep, you're doing it wrong...lol.

Seriously, I can't believe I'm saying this (because I'm a big supporter of moving on along with technology), but shut the AP off, turn the 430 off (or, if its your only radio, don't load the route), and hand-fly with a map on your lap, if for no other reason just to prove to yourself how easy it is to do it...

Now that I re-read your messages, I'm thinking I was just "fished in" by a troll...
 
TimRF79 said:
Hmm... maybe I am doing it wrong..

I plan my flight, load the plan into the 430, climb to altitude and turn AP on.
From there on out it is monitoring of the plane.
Engine performance matches the POH.
ATC doesn't talk much to me other than to change frequencies and confirm altitude.

What is ADM?
Click to expand...
I think you’re doing it well.. the basic fundamentals are for the greenhorns who don’t know how to fly from A to B. Since I’ve been a pilot card holder aka chick magnet, I don’t think I’ve flown solely by a sectional or used a flight log for more than a single time, maybe two at most.
 
tawood said:
Yep, you're doing it wrong...lol.

Seriously, I can't believe I'm saying this (because I'm a big supporter of moving on along with technology), but shut the AP off, turn the 430 off (or, if its your only radio, don't load the route), and hand-fly with a map on your lap, if for no other reason just to prove to yourself how easy it is to do it...

Now that I re-read your messages, I'm thinking I was just "fished in" by a troll...
Click to expand...

Hmm.. that makes sense.
Not sure if I would want to hand fly a 4 hour trip, but that makes more sense in terms of learning.
(I assume no usage of tablet was well)
 
TimRF79 said:
Hmm.. that makes sense.
Not sure if I would want to hand fly a 4 hour trip, but that makes more sense in terms of learning.
(I assume no usage of tablet was well)
Click to expand...
Ah no.

And please don't post that you drive a motorcycle 1000's of miles, and you see no difference in that compared to cross country flight.
 
tawood said:
Ah no.

And please don't post that you drive a motorcycle 1000's of miles, and you see no difference in that compared to cross country flight.
Click to expand...
OK, now i am confused...

I think the longest ride I had on a motorcycle was 200 miles, riding more than 4 hours is just not comfy
 
TimRF79 said:
Hmm... maybe I am doing it wrong..

I plan my flight, load the plan into the 430, climb to altitude and turn AP on.
From there on out it is monitoring of the plane.
Engine performance matches the POH.
ATC doesn't talk much to me other than to change frequencies and confirm altitude.

What is ADM?
Click to expand...

Yeah, see when I learned to fly I wanted to be a bit more than a button pusher. Push the buttons on the 430, push the buttons on the AP, nap till I get there. Theres a bit more to flying than that. Maybe hand fly an entire X/C. You might learn something

Edit: I see Tawood beat me to it
 
JCranford said:
Yeah, see when I learned to fly I wanted to be a bit more than a button pusher. Push the buttons on the 430, push the buttons on the AP, nap till I get there. Theres a bit more to flying than that. Maybe hand fly an entire X/C. You might learn something
Click to expand...

Isn't the point of flying to get from point A to point B as fast as possible (while being safe)?
 
TimRF79 said:
Isn't the point of flying to get from point A to point B as fast as possible (while being safe)?
Click to expand...
With your description of a flight there's no taking into account weather along the way, weather changes from the forecast, or other unexpected events, which leaves a fairly gigantic gap in the "safe" part of your plan.
 
There will come a time when the autopilot goes all TangoUniform, or the 430, or all is not right in your EGT/CHTs, etc. Whatcha gonna do then?
 
wrbix said:
There will come a time when the autopilot goes all TangoUniform, or the 430, or all is not right in your EGT/CHTs, etc. Whatcha gonna do then?
Click to expand...
Good point, if my AP goes out, I would hand-fly the course.
If the 430 goes out, I would go with the tablet, if that also quits, the phone... Now if all 3 quit... then I probably be in trouble as I may not have a paper sectional.

How would you know if your EGT/CHT is not right? If ti goes out, trust that the POH settings are correct for prop,MP,fuel flow and go a little richer from there

Do I see the answers that long x-country are great to learn from, cause you gotta figure stuff out, when something doesn't go according to plan
With the note that I have been lucky that all my x-countries went according to plan?
 
TimRF79 said:
Good point, if my AP goes out, I would hand-fly the course.
If the 430 goes out, I would go with the tablet, if that also quits, the phone... Now if all 3 quit... then I probably be in trouble as I may not have a paper sectional.

How would you know if your EGT/CHT is not right? If ti goes out, trust that the POH settings are correct for prop,MP,fuel flow and go a little richer from there

Do I see the answers that long x-country are great to learn from, cause you gotta figure stuff out, when something doesn't go according to plan
With the note that I have been lucky that all my x-countries went according to plan?
Click to expand...
keep an out of date paper sectional in you plane within reach. stuff doesn't change so often that it wouldn't be useful to have a slightly dated one to help you locate a path to your final destination or to a safe diversion
 
TimRF79 said:
Often I have read that "you learn a lot" on a x-country flight.
Could someone please elaborate what you learn on those trips?
Click to expand...
At my first attempt at a cross-country, I navigated a mountain pass under a low overcast. I learned never do that again.
 
TimRF79 said:
Isn't the point of flying to get from point A to point B as fast as possible (while being safe)?
Click to expand...

That depends. For some folks (you, perhaps) that is the point. For others it's the joy of soaring around, low slow. For others sight-seeing. Aerobatics, etc.

If your primary purpose is getting from A to B in the shortest time, then your approach is fine until (as others have said) something goes wrong.

John
 
On my first solo X/C I learned that you can get a serious updraft or downdraft miles away from a storm. I learned tower guys sometimes have a sense of humor. I learned about changing routes and plans due to unanticipated weather. I learned that you can hit a really surprising thermal from a river a couple miles off when you're flying along in perfectly calm air, fat dumb and happy, and it can scare the bejeezus out of you. It was a real learning experience.

On the first long one after getting my ticket (headed to Gaston's) I learned that the Garmin 496 will happily NOT show you airspace rings if you push the wrong button, and you should really follow along on your paper chart (or the tablet for me now). Almost busted the Springfield Charlie before I figured that out.

Later on I learned that climbing to altitude, punching the AP button and just looking out the canopy for a couple of hours is really a pretty boring way to fly.

The list goes on and on.
 
Brad Z said:
Confidence.
Click to expand...
This... in spades....

My first solo cross country, I was thinking "Holy crap! I'm really flying a plane... by myself... and going places.... and not getting lost and actually finding the airport.... AND LANDING!!!"
 
TimRF79 said:
Isn't the point of flying to get from point A to point B as fast as possible (while being safe)?
Click to expand...
No. Sometimes is for the experience and enjoyment.... and no need to go fast.
 
jsstevens said:
That depends. For some folks (you, perhaps) that is the point. For others it's the joy of soaring around, low slow. For others sight-seeing. Aerobatics, etc.

If your primary purpose is getting from A to B in the shortest time, then your approach is fine until (as others have said) something goes wrong.

John
Click to expand...
Hmm... starting to makes sense.
I enjoy hanging under a parachute and enjoy the quite-ness fresh air and view.
Aerobatics, is something that sounds appealing, but financially prohibitive.
 
Student pilot here...recently did some xc:

I learned the planes I rent don't have AP (well, I knew that already, but I learned it some more).

I learned that it's nice to follow roads when you're in the middle of nowhere. It might be longer, but when the direct route is over desolate areas, it's nice to think there might be people near those roads occasionally.

I learned that sometimes you wake up ATC when making a call approaching delta airspace at quiet airports.

I learned that a sloping runway can mess with your roundout/flare (well, I knew that already, but I learned it some more).

I learned that carrying more than one credit card can be a good idea when a card reader for self-serve gas doesn't cooperate.

I learned that just because the weather forecast is 100% clear doesn't mean it'll be clear (well, I knew that already, but I learned it some more).

I learned that sometimes the closest airport that doesn't involve risking flying into a storm might be 30 minutes behind you (well, I knew that already, but I learned it some more).

I learned that sometimes an FBO at an airport in the middle of nowhere won't let you use the courtesy car unless you gave them your driver's license and proof of car insurance 24 hours in advance.

I learned that having shoes you're comfortable walking a few miles in is handy when you're waiting out the weather and you'd like a snack.

I learned that I still like flying even with weather delays meaning you get to explore a middle-of-nowhere airport you never thought you'd be at.

I learned I really like ForeFlight even more than I originally thought.

------------------

I'd say that was worth it...
 
TimRF79 said:
Good point, if my AP goes out, I would hand-fly the course.
If the 430 goes out, I would go with the tablet, if that also quits, the phone... Now if all 3 quit... then I probably be in trouble as I may not have a paper sectional.

How would you know if your EGT/CHT is not right? If ti goes out, trust that the POH settings are correct for prop,MP,fuel flow and go a little richer from there

Do I see the answers that long x-country are great to learn from, cause you gotta figure stuff out, when something doesn't go according to plan
With the note that I have been lucky that all my x-countries went according to plan?
Click to expand...

Yep, dealing with "stuff". Weather is a biggie. The farther you go the more likely it is to not match the forecast. This can be a huge problem for VFR flight and a concern for IFR flight as well.

Then there is breakage; alternator, battery, flat tire, whatever. Stopping for fuel and finding they are out of fuel, or the pump broke, or the credit card reader died, whatever, but you're not getting fuel there today.

Or you get nearby your destination and find that someone had a gear collapse on the runway. How are you fuel reserves? This happened to me several weeks ago, but the airport has three runways, so not a big deal; plus I had plenty of fuel. But, if it had one runway then do you hold somewhere or land, and how far is the nearest airport to land and wait for clean-up?

MIFlyer said:
keep an out of date paper sectional in you plane within reach. stuff doesn't change so often that it wouldn't be useful to have a slightly dated one to help you locate a path to your final destination or to a safe diversion
Click to expand...

Works fine when flying VFR. Not so much for flying in IMC. You could dial-up some VOR's and validate your location. But if you lost your 430 you most likely are missing at least one of your Nav radios too, unless you just lost GPS and not the 430/power.
 
Nochmal said:
I learned that having shoes you're comfortable walking a few miles in is handy when you're waiting out the weather and you'd like a snack.
Click to expand...
I learned one that's even better than this one, after I used this one several times....

There's almost always a pizza place that will deliver to the airport so you don't have to walk a few miles (and get wet or struck by lightening) to get a snack while waiting out the weather. I don't know why it took so many times for me to learn this, but maybe sharing will save someone else some hassle.
 
Salty said:
I learned one that's even better than this one, after I used this one several times....

There's almost always a pizza place that will deliver to the airport so you don't have to walk a few miles (and get wet or struck by lightening) to get a snack while waiting out the weather. I don't know why it took so many times for me to learn this, but maybe sharing will save someone else some hassle.
Click to expand...

Great idea (one I didn't think of)...I just checked though and the only pizza place nearby had closed 2 hours before I landed. :)

Whew! I guess I don't have to feel quite as stupid. lol
 
To channel the Rolling Stones, on a XC flight "you can't always get what you want, but you will find sometimes you might just get what you need."

Let's see:
  • On my first solo XC, my instructor "forgot" to tell me that the crappy Cessna radio didn't work on the Ithaca tower frequency. So I got to remember and use light signals. No harm done, and a valuable lesson in many ways.
  • On my long XC, the winds aloft were so strong that fuel was becoming an issue. So I learned to make an unscheduled fuel stop. That was a good lesson day that you can use over and over. A lot of things can happen in an airplane, but one thing I'm NEVER going to do is run out of fuel.
Hopefully, the learning never stops. There's always SOMETHING on every trip that is unexpected: weather, routing, equipment malfunctions, etc. The physical task of flying an airplane is not that difficult. Making good decisions is more challenging and is what makes for an experienced pilot.

Cheers.
 
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