When Will I Solo (asked many times I'm sure)

Did you chose this CFI? I'm a student pilot as well and have crossed the half a century mark age wise. I am quite confident that if a 19 year old CFI strolled up for my first flight I would have politely asked for a more seasoned "old school" instructor. Nothing against the kid; I'm sure he's quite talented and qualified. I just think there is too great of a generation gap.
 
Cptwing said:
Pardon me James33 we are not all born Chuck Yeager's like yourself. If he had a confidence problem in my flying why does he spend time on his phone texting his girlfriend while I am flying the plane? I have done full stalls and recovered from them within the required ACS requirements? I have done go around which I initiated on my own as I felt the approach was unstable. I have done steep turns, slow fly, etc all within the ACS not always but that's what solo practice is for is it not?

I do not believe I came off as arrogant in my post, maybe you have these attitudes toward students because you suck as an instructor? And as far as IACRA why should I drive to the FSDO when I am paying him for it and it is his responsibility to initiate it! You have no idea of my flying ability or lack of. Do I feel I am ready for solo cross country no, by three laps around the track with two touch and gos and a full stop, I know very well I can handle that even in xc as almost all my landings are xc anyway.

As far as 25 hrs, seriously I should spend another 3k to find out if its me or him? Were you or are you a milkman CFI? Also I should just walk off the tarmac every lesson without any after lesson briefings, without any information to prep for the next lesson? It almost sounds as though you taught the same way.
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I said what I said because hardly any students pressure instructors to solo them, like hardly ANY, and as a instructor that's a red flag.

You also likely would never get to know what type of instructor I am, I probably wouldn't fly with you past a flight or two before giving you to someone who NEEDS the hours, as I have zero tolerance to have some PPL student try to pressure me to solo them, and I instruct because I enjoy it, not because I need to, which could be why they stuck you with Jr.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Question for the CFI's of our group.... What are you looking for in your students that says they are ready for solo flight?

For me (when I one day earn my CFI creds) I'm thinking if the student can run a series of takeoffs, pattern flights, and landing, without me being anymore than a learned observer (I don't say anything, I don't do any inputs), and he does it to the appropriate standards, then that student is just about ready for solo flight.
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I’m not a cfi. But I could tell I was getting close when my instructor started sliding his seat back unable to reach the controls. A few flights like that and he told me drop him off. I thought that was really cool. He put his life in my hands before he let me out my own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Peter Anderson said:
I’m not a cfi. But I could tell I was getting close when my instructor started sliding his seat back unable to reach the controls. A few flights like that and he told me drop him off. I thought that was really cool. He put his life in my hands before he let me out my own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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As a sign of faith I leave my trusty headset in the plane and always tell them "be careful, I'm leaving my favorite headset in here"
 
He may not be milking, he may be anxious about endorsing a solo. I can imagine how hard it is for a New CFI. They have to judge not only your capabilities but their own capability to accurately judge you.

That said, I’d still find another instructor. Let him figure it out with someone else. More importantly, if you're doubting him, the system is already broken.
 
Cptwing said:
I am seriously considering asking to switch instructors or even switching schools. I am hesitant as I know that this will set me back abit. Also I currently train on a P-28 and all the other schools around are C-172 and C-152.

Any advice or am I just overthinking this
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As others have suggested, I would ask to move to a different instructor if I was you. Considering how things are moving for you, I don't think it will set you back. When I instructed, it was common to move students around for different reasons and it usually only took one flight/ground lesson to assess where the student is to start moving forward. Either you will start moving forward at a more comfortable rate or you will determine you weren't as far along as you thought.

When/if my son's want to start flying, they won't be flying with a 19 year old flight instructor.

Signed,
A former 19 year old CFI/MEI
 
Wow, I have a couple of students that I have to hound to get their medical and do the initial registration on IACRA. Funny how that works.

Ok, about the hood time. I teach fron Gleim's syllabus, and I think lesson 3 we integrate hood work with the four fundamentals. It works well as I will have them perform a turn for example visually, then perform it under the hood.

I also won't solo anyone until I am satisfied with slow flight, basic emergencies/simulated forced landings, stall recognition and recovery, and go arounds. A few other things also.

After that, when I don't have to suggest or correct something while they're landing, they make good decisions, and become consistent with their flying and landings, then it's solo time. I want them to solo probably as badly as they want to, but no short cuts.
 
James331 said:
I said what I said because hardly any students pressure instructors to solo them, like hardly ANY, and as a instructor that's a red flag.

You also likely would never get to know what type of instructor I am, I probably wouldn't fly with you past a flight or two before giving you to someone who NEEDS the hours, as I have zero tolerance to have some PPL student try to pressure me to solo them, and I instruct because I enjoy it, not because I need to, which could be why they stuck you with Jr.
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Its a Red Flag for a student to want to Solo? Really so IYO a good student is supposed to just blindly follow their instructor, pay for countless hours of lessons, not take an active roll in their training. You are right I definitely would never get to know what kind of instructor you are not. Any idiot can get a CFI if they want it bad enough, and many (not all) seem to care less about their students than building time. You seem far to full of yourself for me, you probably have zero tolerance for anything, except taking students money. WHAT I REALLY DO WONDER IS; DID YOU GET YOUR PSYCHOLOGY DEGREE OFF THE SAME CERIAL BOX AS YOUR CFI CERTIFICATE?
 
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Cptwing said:
Its a Red Flag for a student to want to Solo? Really so IYO a good student is supposed to just blindly follow their instructor, pay for countless hours of lessons, not take an active roll in their training. You are right I definitely would never get to know what kind of instructor you are not. Any idiot can get a CFI if they want it bad enough, and many (not all) seem to care less about their students than building time. You seem far to full of yourself for me, you probably have zero tolerance for anything, except taking students money. WHAT I REALLY DO WONDER IS; DID YOU GET YOUR PSYCHOLOGY DEGREE OFF THE SAME CERIAL BOX AS YOUR CFI CERTIFICATE?
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The worst student is the one who already knows it all.
 
Salty said:
The worst student is the one who already knows it all.
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Thank so much for your insight Aristotle.I do not believe I ever claimed to be all knowing. But I do know BS when I see it. I did not initiate the insults, nor did I ever state that I am ready for anything more than my first solo. I never expected to listen to a bunch of crap from members on here, just for seeking advise. I guess maybe I should have looked into 141 vrs 61, at least 141 schools have to follow the FAA and have some structure to them.

On the plus side I did get what I consider some very good advice from several members, who told me not just what I wanted to hear. I think it is in my best interest to seek out a different instructor. It may set me back abit but it should be worth it. So thank guys for the good advice. As for you two bit psychiatrist who think they can judge someone's abilities and character by reading a few lines of text. You certainly should have no place in education be it aviation or otherwise. Oh and call Cherios and ask for a refund on all of your credentials.
 
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You do not sound like a 15 hour student to me. You also don’t act like a person actually looking for advice.
 
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So have you scheduled a flight with a different CFI as suggested?
 
When I go for my next lesson I am going to talk to the school owner and tell him, I want another instructor. I also want much clearer defined objectives, not just when I solo but for other milestones (xc, xc solo, night flying etc). I guess my biggest complaint is that there is no structure or clear path to reaching these milestones and ultimately to PPL. I personally do not think I am expecting too much when I think the instructor should have my flight lessons planned out at least several lesson in advance, ( I fly a regular schedule every week). That I should be assigned reading/study & practice assignments for future lessons, that and after action critique should take place after every lesson. The bottom line is as students we pay a great deal of money for these lessons and we are the customers. I want to get my license in a safe, timely and cost effective manner. So yes I am requesting a new instructor and if that gets me any negativity from the flight school owner I shall seek out a different school.
 
Cptwing said:
When I go for my next lesson I am going to talk to the school owner and tell him, I want another instructor. I also want much clearer defined objectives, not just when I solo but for other milestones (xc, xc solo, night flying etc). I guess my biggest complaint is that there is no structure or clear path to reaching these milestones and ultimately to PPL. I personally do not think I am expecting too much when I think the instructor should have my flight lessons planned out at least several lesson in advance, ( I fly a regular schedule every week). That I should be assigned reading/study & practice assignments for future lessons, that and after action critique should take place after every lesson. The bottom line is as students we pay a great deal of money for these lessons and we are the customers. I want to get my license in a safe, timely and cost effective manner. So yes I am requesting a new instructor and if that gets me any negativity from the flight school owner I shall seek out a different school.
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Just ask for the course syllabus. Your CFI should be using something and should have gone over it with you on day one.
 
Cptwing said:
. I guess maybe I should have looked into 141 vrs 61, at least 141 schools have to follow the FAA and have some structure to them.
.
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FYI a 141 school could have the same scenario you're writing about. I've taught, learned as a student, at 141 and 61 flight schools. As far as learning they are the same for the most part. 61 has to follow the FAA as much as 141 does, and does have structure. You seem to have a CFI who isn't organized possibly and apparently ignores your wants and questions. Sounds inexperienced to me. If you change CFIs, make sure you discuss what you're writing here with the new CFI, but don't be demanding or you may find no CFI at that school will fly with you.
 
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mscard88 said:
FYI a 141 school could have the same scenario you're writing about. I've taught, and as a student, at 141 and 61 flight schools. As far as learning they are the same for the most part. 61 has to follow the FAA as much as 141 does, and does have structure. You seem to have a CFI who isn't organized possibly and apparently ignores your wants and questions. Sounds inexperienced to me. If you change CFIs, make sure you discuss what you're writing here with the new CFI, but don't be demanding or you may find no CFI at that school will fly with you.
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Now that is exactly my issue and very sound advice, thanks.
 
Cptwing said:
Now that is exactly my issue and very sound advice, thanks.
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As you can see, this place isn’t much different from everyday life. We have all kinds here. I would encourage you to try to glean some nuggets from our resident....uh...contrarians. I have heard a couple of pieces of advice through the years that I try to filter things through, one is. Truth is truth no matter who says it, the second is, you can eat the fish and throw away the bones. Kinda the same thing, but you get my point. I am going to go against the grain here and say that I would encourage you to talk to the instructor first. A very frank conversation. One thing I have learned is that no instructor wants to talk about time to solo. However, you can talk about your expectations, like debriefing after the flight. I would go so far as to ask for a good belriefing before the flight, actually, you should know after a lesson what you will do next time. It’s also fair to ask where you may not be progressing as fast as you need to. So I’ve said a lot to say. Have an honest talk with your instructor first. If that doesn’t work, look elsewhere. I’ll say this, for me, the solo was sort of anti climactic. Yes it was an accomplishment, but he got back in next lesson and we went back to work. Good luck.
 
Mike Smith said:
As you can see, this place isn’t much different from everyday life. We have all kinds here. I would encourage you to try to glean some nuggets from our resident....uh...contrarians. I have heard a couple of pieces of advice through the years that I try to filter things through, one is. Truth is truth no matter who says it, the second is, you can eat the fish and throw away the bones. Kinda the same thing, but you get my point. I am going to go against the grain here and say that I would encourage you to talk to the instructor first. A very frank conversation. One thing I have learned is that no instructor wants to talk about time to solo. However, you can talk about your expectations, like debriefing after the flight. I would go so far as to ask for a good belriefing before the flight, actually, you should know after a lesson what you will do next time. It’s also fair to ask where you may not be progressing as fast as you need to. So I’ve said a lot to say. Have an honest talk with your instructor first. If that doesn’t work, look elsewhere. I’ll say this, for me, the solo was sort of anti climactic. Yes it was an accomplishment, but he got back in next lesson and we went back to work. Good luck.
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Good point. For someone that thinks their past ready to solo, the solo doesn't have as much meaning. It's more important as a psychological step for those that aren't as sure of themselves to realize they are flying the plane.
 
I don’t really remember how many hours I had at solo, I do remember that my instructor asked me when “I” thought I’d be ready. I told him about 4 more hours. He said no, you’re ready now, but I’ll fly with you one more time, then you go by yourself. It was a non event.
 
Mike Smith said:
I don’t really remember how many hours I had at solo, I do remember that my instructor asked me when “I” thought I’d be ready. I told him about 4 more hours. He said no, you’re ready now, but I’ll fly with you one more time, then you go by yourself. It was a non event.
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I was the same way as you, then I was "what, you're getting out?" He said yes, don't screw up, we're 75 miles from the home field, lol.

I do distinctly remember this though, I didn't believe everything he told me in the beginning, this is my issue, especially as a young engineer at the time. I realized quickly at the time that attitude was going to slow me down, so decided I would just do what the guy said, life became a lot easier in the cockpit after that decision.
 
Cptwing said:
Its a Red Flag for a student to want to Solo? Really so IYO a good student is supposed to just blindly follow their instructor, pay for countless hours of lessons, not take an active roll in their training. You are right I definitely would never get to know what kind of instructor you are not. Any idiot can get a CFI if they want it bad enough, and many (not all) seem to care less about their students than building time. You seem far to full of yourself for me, you probably have zero tolerance for anything, except taking students money. WHAT I REALLY DO WONDER IS; DID YOU GET YOUR PSYCHOLOGY DEGREE OFF THE SAME CERIAL BOX AS YOUR CFI CERTIFICATE?
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Cereal.

Really now. Screaming?

Altho James often annoys some of us with non-aviation opinions, he is a highly experienced CFI and professional pilot. I for one, respect his knowledge and experience and sometimes, even learn something from his postings.

In your original posting and lengthy followup, you did not mention being comfortable with emergency procedures, or short & soft field landings. Are you? These are traditionally expected before solo.

You've been offered excellent advice such as having a heart to heart with your CFI, talking with the chief pilot or a more experienced CFI. Yet you continue to harp about your current CFI and demonstrate a fair amount of hostility. Perhaps your CFI is right. Flying is not merely controlling the aircraft but demonstrating good judgement, even a bit of humility that you don't know everything, that you're not Chuck Yeager.
 
murphey said:
Cereal.

Really now. Screaming?

Altho James often annoys some of us with non-aviation opinions, he is a highly experienced CFI and professional pilot. I for one, respect his knowledge and experience and sometimes, even learn something from his postings.

In your original posting and lengthy followup, you did not mention being comfortable with emergency procedures, or short & soft field landings. Are you? These are traditionally expected before solo.

You've been offered excellent advice such as having a heart to heart with your CFI, talking with the chief pilot or a more experienced CFI. Yet you continue to harp about your current CFI and demonstrate a fair amount of hostility. Perhaps your CFI is right. Flying is not merely controlling the aircraft but demonstrating good judgement, even a bit of humility that you don't know everything, that you're not Chuck Yeager.
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Well, he has a right to respond to ignorant posts too. Plus he's taking the advice and going to talk to the Flight school owner. If you had read the entire thread you'd have seen where he said that. (post 53)
 
As far as when the OP will solo goes, that I’m staying out of.

As far as whether to fire the CFI, I’d have fired him over the lack of getting paperwork done in two months and not working from a syllabus or at least a proper brief and debrief, long before the solo thing became an issue.

Not trying to be ageist but at 19 I probably would have been sloppy about that stuff too, and needed the lesson of losing a customer to it.
 
mscard88 said:
Well, he has a right to respond to ignorant posts too. Plus he's taking the advice and going to talk to the Flight school owner. If you had read the entire thread you'd have seen where he said that. (post 53)
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That's all fine, but he's completely out of the line online. If it translates into his RL personality at all, the school might get off easy by losing a customer like that.
 
zaitcev said:
That's all fine, but he's completely out of the line online. If it translates into his RL personality at all, the school might get off easy by losing a customer like that.
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Out of line on POA? You're taking the OP too seriously.

image.gif
 
AggieMike88 said:
Question for the CFI's of our group.... What are you looking for in your students that says they are ready for solo flight?

For me (when I one day earn my CFI creds) I'm thinking if the student can run a series of takeoffs, pattern flights, and landing, without me being anymore than a learned observer (I don't say anything, I don't do any inputs), and he does it to the appropriate standards, then that student is just about ready for solo flight.
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c) Pre-solo flight training. Prior to conducting a solo flight, a student pilot must have:

(1) Received and logged flight training for the maneuvers and procedures of this section that are appropriate to the make and model of aircraft to be flown; and

(2) Demonstrated satisfactory proficiency and safety, as judged by an authorized instructor, on the maneuvers and procedures required by this section in the make and model of aircraft or similar make and model of aircraft to be flown.



d) Maneuvers and procedures for pre-solo flight training in a single-engine airplane. A student pilot who is receiving training for a single-engine airplane rating or privileges must receive and log flight training for the following maneuvers and procedures:

(1) Proper flight preparation procedures, including preflight planning and preparation, powerplant operation, and aircraft systems;
E
(2) Taxiing or surface operations, including runups;

(3) Takeoffs and landings, including normal and crosswind;

(4) Straight and level flight, and turns in both directions;

(5) Climbs and climbing turns;

(6) Airport traffic patterns, including entry and departure procedures;

(7) Collision avoidance, windshear avoidance, and wake turbulence avoidance;

(8) Descents, with and without turns, using high and low drag configurations;

(9) Flight at various airspeeds from cruise to slow flight;

(10) Stall entries from various flight attitudes and power combinations with recovery initiated at the first indication of a stall, and recovery from a full stall;

(11) Emergency procedures and equipment malfunctions;

(12) Ground reference maneuvers;

(13) Approaches to a landing area with simulated engine malfunctions;

(14) Slips to a landing; and

(15) Go-arounds.

In my view that is all the emergency procedures in the AFM for the training aircraft.
 
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Lol.. I had the complete opposite problem... when CFI says its time to solo and I think oh no, I am totally not ready... :D
 
My 'rule' for my students on when they solo is when I think they are ready and won't wreck the plane. We meet the requirements (and usually a little more) in 61.87 and then when they can land the plane 10 times in a row (not all on one lesson) without me lifting my hands off my lap, I sign them off. My last student I signed off would not have soloed had I done the normal, "drop me off at the FBO, and go solo." He would have shut the plane down and parked it. He wanted to solo, but also didn't want to solo. So during the pattern after his 8th no hands off my lap landing, I asked what the plane was going to behave like on t/o and landing if we were full gross and a hot day, and what it would behave like if it was him and 16 gallons of fuel. At the same time I'm making the endorsements in his logbook and he has no clue that I'm doing that because he's pretty locked in on flying the plane. A couple other review questions to make sure he wasn't going to brain fart and when taxiing to the numbers I said, "OK we are going to do something just a little bit different this time, so I want to you line up on the numbers and hold the brakes." So he rolls onto the numbers, hold the brakes, and I unplug my headset and open the door. He yells out "this isn't happening!" I yell back, "Oh, it's happening," shut the door and walked down the taxiway without looking back. I'm probably 30 steps away from the plane, and I hear him go full throttle.

His wife and kids had also shown up prior to me getting out and I pointed it out as we were taxiing by. So his option was to either taxi back to the hangar with his tail between his legs, or solo. I knew he was ready, and he needed to be pushed out of the nest, not coaxed. Probably made his best 3 landings ever. He taxis back, and says, "I can't believe you did that to me!" I asked if he would have gone solo if I had him drop me off on the ramp and he said no, "I would have shut down and put the plane away." "I know, and now you know why I got how where I got out." Said it was the best day of his life after marriage and kids being born.
 
He's got 15.2 hours and he's already a captain! Imagine that.

Look, instructor aside, the OP is clearly in a hurry and thinks quite highly of himself as a pilot. That worries me more at his experience level than the instructor. Maybe the instructor sees Mr. "I can land in a 15-knot crosswind" and has a different opinion? Maybe the instructor is trying to keep this guy from making a lawn dart out of himself using any excuse he can come up with? To the OP, by all means, book your next two lessons with another instructor, and see what he says. But if he tells you to slow it down, be open to the fact that you may not be as good as you think you are.
 
If you've had more than 2 lessons and you still haven't solo'ed, you're probably just a slow learner. {sarcasm font}
 
EdFred said:
My 'rule' for my students on when they solo is when I think they are ready and won't wreck the plane. We meet the requirements (and usually a little more) in 61.87 and then when they can land the plane 10 times in a row (not all on one lesson) without me lifting my hands off my lap, I sign them off. My last student I signed off would not have soloed had I done the normal, "drop me off at the FBO, and go solo." He would have shut the plane down and parked it. He wanted to solo, but also didn't want to solo. So during the pattern after his 8th no hands off my lap landing, I asked what the plane was going to behave like on t/o and landing if we were full gross and a hot day, and what it would behave like if it was him and 16 gallons of fuel. At the same time I'm making the endorsements in his logbook and he has no clue that I'm doing that because he's pretty locked in on flying the plane. A couple other review questions to make sure he wasn't going to brain fart and when taxiing to the numbers I said, "OK we are going to do something just a little bit different this time, so I want to you line up on the numbers and hold the brakes." So he rolls onto the numbers, hold the brakes, and I unplug my headset and open the door. He yells out "this isn't happening!" I yell back, "Oh, it's happening," shut the door and walked down the taxiway without looking back. I'm probably 30 steps away from the plane, and I hear him go full throttle.

His wife and kids had also shown up prior to me getting out and I pointed it out as we were taxiing by. So his option was to either taxi back to the hangar with his tail between his legs, or solo. I knew he was ready, and he needed to be pushed out of the nest, not coaxed. Probably made his best 3 landings ever. He taxis back, and says, "I can't believe you did that to me!" I asked if he would have gone solo if I had him drop me off on the ramp and he said no, "I would have shut down and put the plane away." "I know, and now you know why I got how where I got out." Said it was the best day of his life after marriage and kids being born.
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That is a really cool story. Thanks for sharing Ed. :)

He’ll never forget that.
 
EdFred said:
My 'rule' for my students on when they solo is when I think they are ready and won't wreck the plane. We meet the requirements (and usually a little more) in 61.87 and then when they can land the plane 10 times in a row (not all on one lesson) without me lifting my hands off my lap, I sign them off. My last student I signed off would not have soloed had I done the normal, "drop me off at the FBO, and go solo." He would have shut the plane down and parked it. He wanted to solo, but also didn't want to solo. So during the pattern after his 8th no hands off my lap landing, I asked what the plane was going to behave like on t/o and landing if we were full gross and a hot day, and what it would behave like if it was him and 16 gallons of fuel. At the same time I'm making the endorsements in his logbook and he has no clue that I'm doing that because he's pretty locked in on flying the plane. A couple other review questions to make sure he wasn't going to brain fart and when taxiing to the numbers I said, "OK we are going to do something just a little bit different this time, so I want to you line up on the numbers and hold the brakes." So he rolls onto the numbers, hold the brakes, and I unplug my headset and open the door. He yells out "this isn't happening!" I yell back, "Oh, it's happening," shut the door and walked down the taxiway without looking back. I'm probably 30 steps away from the plane, and I hear him go full throttle.

His wife and kids had also shown up prior to me getting out and I pointed it out as we were taxiing by. So his option was to either taxi back to the hangar with his tail between his legs, or solo. I knew he was ready, and he needed to be pushed out of the nest, not coaxed. Probably made his best 3 landings ever. He taxis back, and says, "I can't believe you did that to me!" I asked if he would have gone solo if I had him drop me off on the ramp and he said no, "I would have shut down and put the plane away." "I know, and now you know why I got how where I got out." Said it was the best day of his life after marriage and kids being born.
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I also enjoyed this story. Thank you Ed!!!!
 
Salty said:
The worst student is the one who already knows it all.
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The worst student is one that tries to finish your sentences for you, or answer a question before you finish asking it.

The worst student is one stuck on transmit and does not know to switch to receive.
 
Cptwing said:
Its a Red Flag for a student to want to Solo? Really so IYO a good student is supposed to just blindly follow their instructor, pay for countless hours of lessons, not take an active roll in their training. You are right I definitely would never get to know what kind of instructor you are not. Any idiot can get a CFI if they want it bad enough, and many (not all) seem to care less about their students than building time. You seem far to full of yourself for me, you probably have zero tolerance for anything, except taking students money. WHAT I REALLY DO WONDER IS; DID YOU GET YOUR PSYCHOLOGY DEGREE OFF THE SAME CERIAL BOX AS YOUR CFI CERTIFICATE?
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Wanting to solo and pushing your CFI to solo you are two different things. I bet every one of my guys wanted to solo before his first hour, however none of them were pushing me to solo them or asking "when" minus one guy who I gave to another CFI, who then stopped flying with him before solo as well.

Most students have the "really I'm soloing NOW?!" reaction.


Cptwing said:
...Any idiot can get a CFI if they want it bad enough...
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If "any idiot" can get their CFI and yet you are not even able to solo :dunno:


Cptwing said:
...and many (not all) seem to care less about their students than building time.
...
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Actually it very likely is because they care about you that they aren't letting you solo, it's easier to keep a student when you keep them happy, he probably knows he likely could loose you by not letting you solo, but I'd wager he's willing to risk that over risking your life letting you solo when you're not ready.


As others and myself have said, go get a second opinion
 
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