Group Hangars

wrbix

wrbix

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School me please on group hangars.
I’ve always rented T-hangars for my Grumman Tiger, no experience at all with Group Hangars.
There is Group Hangar space becoming available at a nice little airport a bit closer to home at a cheaper price ($125 vs $194 for the T).
Haven’t visited there yet but would ask those that have used Group Hangars your pro’s/con’s, how things generally work: who shuffles/moves planes, access after hours, respect for your aircraft’s personal space, storage of the requisite flying paraphernalia outside of airplane, etc.
I’m sure every location is a bit different but would like to look into it with a bit of better understanding.
Thanks
 
Pros
It’s in a hangar
Staff will plug in my tennis heater if I can and ask them to
I just park at the ramp and hey worry about rolling it in
Cheaper than a private hangar

Cons
Have to call staff and have them pull it out before I fly
Limited access after hours unless I have them pull it out before they close
No private storage space

I’ve used a group hangar for years and never had any problems w it. Fbo staff is pretty good about moving planes, etc
 
Biggest con is the risk of having your airplane damaged from other people moving it or moving around it. They are also usually dustier and you get a lot of bird droppings since the doors stay open so much of the time for airplane movement. The only benefits I see is it's better than a tie down, and only ever so slightly cheaper than a t hangar.
 
Come look at the scratch in my canopy from the linemen trying to tuck it under the wing of a 172.
of course they denied it was there doing. ..
 
FORANE said:
Come look at the scratch in my canopy from the linemen trying to tuck it under the wing of a 172.
of course they denied it was there doing. ..
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Even if they do admit it, it's on your insurance to fix it.
 
Pros:
It's nice to have someone else worry about moving the plane in and out of the hangar.
Many/most (though not all) will let you keep some sort of locker or storage box against one of the hangar walls to store your stuff.

Cons:
Your airplane WILL get damaged at some point. Hangar rash is very, very common in group hangar setups. It's rarely a matter of "if," but a matter of "when."
You may not have 24/7 access (depends on facility).
You may not be able to do maintenance in the group hangar, depending on the hangar owner's policy.
Probably can't park your car in the hangar when you travel.
 
Grum.Man said:
Even if they do admit it, it's on your insurance to fix it.
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How do you figure? If the hangar keeper damages my plane, it's typically on him, or HIS insurance to fix it.
 
Grum.Man said:
Even if they do admit it, it's on your insurance to fix it.
Click to expand...
bradg33 said:
How do you figure? If the hangar keeper damages my plane, it's typically on him, or HIS insurance to fix it.
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Yeah, that's on the FBO (or whoever is responsible for shuffling planes) at that point. One of the members on here had that happen. I found the damage. Smashed his aileron up real good. They didn't even argue it.
 
wrbix said:
School me please on group hangars.
I’ve always rented T-hangars for my Grumman Tiger, no experience at all with Group Hangars.
There is Group Hangar space becoming available at a nice little airport a bit closer to home at a cheaper price ($125 vs $194 for the T).
Haven’t visited there yet but would ask those that have used Group Hangars your pro’s/con’s, how things generally work: who shuffles/moves planes, access after hours, respect for your aircraft’s personal space, storage of the requisite flying paraphernalia outside of airplane, etc.
I’m sure every location is a bit different but would like to look into it with a bit of better understanding.
Thanks
Click to expand...

How does that one work? Concierge or Do It Yourself? I had mine in a DIY one for a couple months once. My plane was an easy in and out, I never had to move another a plane. Far as I could tell no one ever moved mine. Things were close in there. It took another minute or two to put it in because I was being so careful. Couldn’t just line it up on a centerline marking and push until the nose wheel reached a marked spot. I own a box hangar. Not a big one but there are two planes in there that rent from me. It’s close quarters but so far they haven’t pranged each other’s planes as far as I know. Actually there are 3 planes in there. Mine is in pieces standing on end around the edges and corner of two walls.
 
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Did it one to have the plane a little closer, lasted like a month and I pulled the eject handle on it, F that noise.

Plane got pushed all the way to the back inches from a wall, tons of other planes in front, a couple disassembled for annuals, more hands on my airplane than I'd like.

Just not worth it.
 
I'm happy with mine. Owners are not allowed to move planes, only line crew. They use multiple people when they push/pull to watch for contact points. I can call when I leave my house and the plane is out when I get there. Biggest downsides are - can't park car in hangar, occasional bird turd and no storage other than in plane.

Make friends with the line guys and treat them like the pro's they are. Obviously it depends a lot on where you are based - I'm at RYY.
 
I think some of the posters mix up full-service group hangars -- like RedBird SkyPort provides at San Marcos (KHYI) -- and private group hangars -- like the one I use at Lago Vista (KRYW).

At San Marcos, Redbird ran the hangar completely. They did not allow owners to move airplanes, although they did allow small maintenance, dust wiping, and even chargers. The pros of this: if they damage the airplane, you know whom to sue (although the user agreement was obviously tilted against the renter). Also, the hangars are empty of landlord junk. The cons: although they swear they know the steering limitations of a Mooney, I never was comfortable with letting them pull the plane with a tug. Solution to that is, of course, buying a Bonanza. Another cons is, you must call ahead to get the airplane pulled out. Also, Redbird isn't cheap: it's $350/mo, higher price for larger airplanes (proportional to footprint = wingspan x length).

At Lago, I entered agreements with individual owners. I managed to tuck Carlson away for $250/mo and Mooney for $300/mo. The downsides are the possibility of damage by other owners and tenants moving airplanes around and bumping into them. Both hangars are overflowing with junk. One hosts an upholstery business that constantly encroaches onto the airplane. They are nice and considerate people, but it's only natural: they are in the hangar every day and I am only rarely. So there's always a new pile of upholstery material, a ladder, a barbecue grill, a washing machine, a scissor lift, or a motorcycle, whenever I come to visit the airplane.

I very much prefer a T-hangar, but around this place, they are impossible to find for any money. Ostensibly, it's about $550/mo, but the waiting list is decades. For $194, I would absolutely take the T-hangar over a $125 group hangar, no matter if fully managed or not.

P.S. In Albuquerque, I was paying $230/mo for a clean, new-ish T-hangar. Its only demerit was a bullet hole through all walls - someone hit it with a 30 cal rifle, probably a hunter. Before that, I rented a spot in a hail shed for $70/mo.
 
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When I hear some of these hangar prices, there's no way I would continue flying if I lived in those parts of the country.
 
I had the Aztec and 310 in a group hangar for several years. The nice part about it was that the FBO moved the plane in and out. Overall it worked out well although I did get a little hangar rash on the Aztec once from it. The nice part was that I could call up and the plane would be pulled out, waiting for me when I arrived. Even fueled up. If I was going to depart after hours (which I rarely did) they could leave the plane out waiting for me. Get home at 3 AM and just want to leave? Just park the plane and walk away - they put it away in the morning. That convenience aspect in that regard was quite nice.

The primary negative I had was the lack of storage. Given the primary use of the aircraft I fly (hauling dogs), we keep a bunch of dog crates at the airport. A T-hangar is very nice in this regard. Communal hangar would probably be harder, although doable. We also keep a mini fridge, etc.
 
neilw2 said:
Pros
It’s in a hangar
Staff will plug in my tennis heater if I can and ask them to
I just park at the ramp and hey worry about rolling it in
Cheaper than a private hangar

Cons
Have to call staff and have them pull it out before I fly
Limited access after hours unless I have them pull it out before they close
No private storage space

I’ve used a group hangar for years and never had any problems w it. Fbo staff is pretty good about moving planes, etc
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Agreed on all points, except... a month or two ago I discovered some minor hangar rash, a rather deep scratch on the underside of a wing that looked like it had been made by a screwdriver or even a not-so-sharp knife. Mentioned it to the FBO owner, who hemmed and hawed a bit, but at my next pre-flight, the scratch was GONE. Not sure exactly how he took care of it, but he didn't charge me a penny for the work, so I can't complain.
 
luvflyin said:
How does that one work? Concierge or Do It Yourself? I had mine in a DIY one for a couple months once. My plane was an easy in and out, I never had to move another a plane. Far as I could tell no one ever moved mine. Things were close in there. It took another minute or two to put it in because I was being so careful. Couldn’t just line it up on a centerline marking and push until the nose wheel reached a marked spot. I own a box hangar. Not a big one but there are two planes in there that rent from me. It’s close quarters but so far they haven’t pranged each other’s planes as far as I know. Actually there are 3 planes in there. Mine is in pieces standing on end around the edges and corner of two walls.
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In the community hangar I'm in, it's strictly against the rules for owners to move their own planes. Having had minor damage recently due to someone being a bit careless (see previous post), which the FBO took care of on their time/dime, I fully support this policy.
 
Communication is key with group hangars, it's hard to plan out what aircraft go where without pilots telling us in advance. We stacked the hangar with the less flown aircraft in the back and the more flown aircraft in the front where possible. If you let the line guys know what your plans are it's easier to help the pilots out. We had 1-2 wing walkers at our FBO and always paid attention to turning radii but even with training hangar rash happened, although rarely. A lot of pilots like being able to show up with their plane on the ramp and ready to go, topped off and everything. I even pulled our air conditioning cart out in the summer for GA planes and made it nice and cool inside which made a huge difference for the PAX.

As a line guy, I liked the group hangars more than the T-hangars because opening the hangar, hooking up, pulling out, and closing the hangar took way longer for each pull. If the hangar is stacked right for the next day it's an easy pull with multiple tugs and two wing-walkers to get them from the hangar to the line first thing in the AM.
 
I rented hangar space from a private owner for a few years...three airplanes in the hangar, so if mine was in the back, I had to pull the front one to get mine out, then put it back. Not a huge deal...the other airplanes were a Luscombe and a Cherokee. Whoever flew the most had their airplane in front the most.
 
There is a group hangar at lake Norman with a rotating floor. The roundabout has lines like a pizza. Each owner has his or her slice. There is a button to activate the motor to turn your slice towards the hangar door. that would make a good group hangar.
 
FORANE said:
There is a group hangar at lake Norman with a rotating floor. The roundabout has lines like a pizza. Each owner has his or her slice. There is a button to activate the motor to turn your slice towards the hangar door. that would make a good group hangar.
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Until the motor breaks.
 
My club has 5 planes in a community hangar run by Million Air. If I'm remembering right, we pay about $2000/mo. for 5 planes, which includes a bit of a discount. This is at Albany, NY, where the cost of living is typical for a city this size, but the cost of aviating is on the high side.

I don't think we've had any problems with their crews damaging planes. The club was at Schenectady before that, where the linemen caused significant damage to the planes several times, which precipitated the move.

I have to say that I really love the valet parking service from Million Air.

Salty said:
Until the motor breaks.
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The turntable motor is no more likely to break than the one that opens the hangar doors.


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Thanks all
Based mostly on the amount of flying periphenalia that has accumulated in the T and the comparative reasonable costs, believe I’ll stay in the T hangar.
 
FORANE said:
There is a group hangar at lake Norman with a rotating floor. The roundabout has lines like a pizza. Each owner has his or her slice. There is a button to activate the motor to turn your slice towards the hangar door. that would make a good group hangar.
Click to expand...
Sounds like just what one would expect at Lake Norman! :rolleyes:
 
FORANE said:
There is a group hangar at lake Norman with a rotating floor. The roundabout has lines like a pizza. Each owner has his or her slice. There is a button to activate the motor to turn your slice towards the hangar door. that would make a good group hangar.
Click to expand...

And that sounds exactly like Lake Norman.
 
Eric Gleason said:
My club has 5 planes in a community hangar run by Million Air. If I'm remembering right, we pay about $2000/mo. for 5 planes, which includes a bit of a discount. This is at Albany, NY, where the cost of living is typical for a city this size, but the cost of aviating is on the high side.
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That's on the WAY high side if it scales down to a per-plane rate ($400). At KMPV I pay $250/month for space in a community hangar, and even in suburban Detroit (KVLL) I only paid something like $294 for a T-hangar.

As I've said before I think community hangars are pretty risky even with a don't move your own plane policy, but they're way better in the long term than a tie-down.
 
If it's full service, they should move my plane to wherever I ask. Whether that is "right out front" or "up on the ramp." That's full service.

I don't like community hangars. If it's not self service I want "no touch." Currently I rent space in the back of my hangar to a guy with a War Dog that hasn't seen the air in a decade. I'm open to another plane in the front, so long as it fits with my RV and neither of us have to move the others plane. I'll probably post a picture later... I'm gonna make the 5 min commute over there in a few minutes. :)
 
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