Can I Log It

luvflyin

luvflyin

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Luvflyin
I needed to get a 90 day rental checkout. I've flown in the last 90 days but not with the FBO I'm renting from and their rules are you have to get the checkout if you haven't flown one of their planes in 90 days. So I schedule a plane and an instructor, we go around the patch bouncing twice and landing once. I can rent again now. What happened is when I get there the CFI says he's just been grounded with a medical issue. I say I got 3 landings in the last 90 days so everything's cool, I can have a passenger. He's not really being a CFI, just an employee the FBO trusts to decide if people are safe to play with their airplanes. Now the question. Why I would want to do it, why I would care makes no sense. Even to me. Lets say the FBO is having a promotion where whoever got the most 'Dual' last month gets a free set of Steak Knives. Can I, scratch that, is it Leegull for me to log it as Dual? What about the CFI?

EDIT: Yeah, I paid him his hourly rate.
 
The time counts. Log it as dual.
As you pointed out, the CFI is not acting as a CFI, just a safety pilot.
 
One of the premises is incorrect. The CFI does not need a medical to provide instruction to pilots who are capable/current/legal to act as PIC on their own (like you). So, you can log it as dual and PIC, and he can log it as dual given and PIC, just like any other flight if he had a medical.
 
And if it's legit instruction, neither of you need to passenger current because neither of you are considered passengers.
 
RussR said:
One of the premises is incorrect. The CFI does not need a medical to provide instruction to pilots who are capable/current/legal to act as PIC on their own (like you). So, you can log it as dual and PIC, and he can log it as dual given and PIC, just like any other flight if he had a medical.
Click to expand...

Ah. Got it. He was more than just an Employee.
 
Shepherd said:
The time counts. Log it as dual.
As you pointed out, the CFI is not acting as a CFI, just a safety pilot.
Click to expand...
If the CFI is not acting as a CFI and not endorsing the flight as a CFI, it's not dual.

And, as @RussR saud, the CFI does not require a medical unless you will be under the hood.
 
The CFI can deliver instruction to you without a medical, as long as you are legal to act as PIC for the flight, and you are doing so.
So yeah, you were acting as PIC, and the CFI was "being a CFI". You can log it as dual, and he can log it as dual given.

"Safety pilot" isn't the right description for what the CFI was doing, because he wasn't a required crew member. Unless you spent some time under the hood, in which case the CFI *would* need a medical because he'd be a required crew member. (Is that right?)

Related question: I've read in other discussions on this board that CFI's giving dual are *not* considered "passengers", for the purposes of currency reg's. And so even if you *weren't* 90-day current (but were legal to act as PIC in every *other* way), you could still take a non-medicaled CFI along to give dual and you get your three landings in. You'd be acting PIC, but not "carrying a passenger" even though there's a second person there who is not able to be PIC. This, however, makes my brain hurt, and so I'd love someone to verify...?
 
kath said:
The CFI can deliver instruction to you without a medical, as long as you are legal to act as PIC for the flight, and you are doing so.
So yeah, you were acting as PIC, and the CFI was "being a CFI". You can log it as dual, and he can log it as dual given.

"Safety pilot" isn't the right description for what the CFI was doing, because he wasn't a required crew member. Unless you spent some time under the hood, in which case the CFI *would* need a medical because he'd be a required crew member. (Is that right?)
Click to expand...
yes, that's right.
 
kath said:
The CFI can deliver instruction to you without a medical, as long as you are legal to act as PIC for the flight, and you are doing so.
So yeah, you were acting as PIC, and the CFI was "being a CFI". You can log it as dual, and he can log it as dual given.

"Safety pilot" isn't the right description for what the CFI was doing, because he wasn't a required crew member. Unless you spent some time under the hood, in which case the CFI *would* need a medical because he'd be a required crew member. (Is that right?)

Related question: I've read in other discussions on this board that CFI's giving dual are *not* considered "passengers", for the purposes of currency reg's. And so even if you *weren't* 90-day current (but were legal to act as PIC in every *other* way), you could still take a non-medicaled CFI along to give dual and you get your three landings in. You'd be acting PIC, but not "carrying a passenger" even though there's a second person there who is not able to be PIC. This, however, makes my brain hurt, and so I'd love someone to verify...?
Click to expand...

No need to meet ALL the requirements of PIC if the CFI is CFI'ing.

The CFI isn't considered a passenger during instruction - and neither is the pilot receiving instruction, so passenger currency doesn't apply. You only need passenger currency to carry passengers. You could have gone 6 months without flying, as long as you aren't taking passengers, no need to worry about 90 days. That goes for solo or with a CFI.
 
I agree about the brain hurt thing.

If the CFI is not considered a passenger for the purposes of the currency regs, then it doesn’t matter whether the legal PIC is 90 day current or not. There is no “passenger” aboard. Just a CFI giving dual instruction.
 
I guess, when taking a CFI along on a flight, one should figure out ahead of time whether the CFI is going to be "giving instruction" or not. Because the answer could affect the legality of the flight under some weird circumstances, if you are *not* 90-day current for instance. If the CFI is giving dual, such a flight would be legal. But if he's just going to take a nap on the way to lunch, as a passenger, then it wouldn't be.

Kind of like, when two pilots fly together, establishing ahead of time who is going to be "acting PIC" for the flight.
 
kath said:
I guess, when taking a CFI along on a flight, one should figure out ahead of time whether the CFI is going to be "giving instruction" or not. Because the answer could affect the legality of the flight under some weird circumstances, if you are *not* 90-day current for instance. If the CFI is giving dual, such a flight would be legal. But if he's just going to take a nap on the way to lunch, as a passenger, then it wouldn't be.

Kind of like, when two pilots fly together, establishing ahead of time who is going to be "acting PIC" for the flight.
Click to expand...

Wait, you mean I can't nap during my student's cross countries? Burn her! Burn her at the stake!
 
kath said:
I guess, when taking a CFI along on a flight, one should figure out ahead of time whether the CFI is going to be "giving instruction" or not. Because the answer could affect the legality of the flight under some weird circumstances, if you are *not* 90-day current for instance. If the CFI is giving dual, such a flight would be legal. But if he's just going to take a nap on the way to lunch, as a passenger, then it wouldn't be.

Kind of like, when two pilots fly together, establishing ahead of time who is going to be "acting PIC" for the flight.
Click to expand...
Well, yeah. LOL

Just because I am a CFI, it doesn’t mean I am giving instruction whenever I am in the plane with someone else.
 
Except he IS a CFI. So the real question is “Was he acting as a CFI for the flight or not?” Either way the flight was legal. How to log it depends on whether or not the CFI was acting as a CFI.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Except he IS a CFI. So the real question is “Was he acting as a CFI for the flight or not?” Either way the flight was legal. How to log it depends on whether or not the CFI was acting as a CFI.
Click to expand...
That’s the part that I misread, but it sounds to me like he was NOT acting as a CFI.

luvflyin said:
He's not really being a CFI, just an employee the FBO trusts to decide if people are safe to play with their airplanes.
Click to expand...
 
luvflyin said:
Can I, scratch that, is it Leegull for me to log it as Dual? What about the CFI?
Click to expand...
If you were receiving dual from a CFI then you can log it as Dual Received, or Instruction received, as the case may be. And if that is the case, the CFI is required to log it as Dual or Instruction given.
 
And as someone pointed out above but not strongly, if the CFI didn’t endorse it, instruction didn’t happen according to the FAA... so if you’re playing the “CFI isn’t a passenger game” make sure the CFI endorses your logbook. Or they were a passenger.

Maybe an annoying passenger that barked at you and taught you stuff, but it’s not instruction without the signature in the book. :)

(I talked to some guys who were doing this “get current” dance once and asked “So he signed your logbook?” and the out of currency “PIC” said he didn’t have it with him... SMH... the CFI then had HIS lightbulb come on and realized he didn’t give instruction if he didn’t sign his name to the book... I’m sure they went and got the book and straightened that out... eventually.) :)
 
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