182 down in Wisconsin

Oh man, so sad, 3 generations on board. Pilot was a grandmother with her daughter and 2 grand children on board. RIP
 
Another sad day may they Rest In Peace.
 
Not saying they knew...

On board fire is a serious “ holy ****, put this thing on the ground somewhere with or without an airport” moment for me in a typical spamcan single.

Perhaps someone here has a story or has seen it work, but these “fly faster to blow out the flames” techniques and having dinky little chemical extinguishers on board does not seem to work for much of anything when you’re really on fire.

Very few campfire stories of “there I was” with flames coming out of a cowl when you hang out with the old non-bold pilots telling war stories, where anyone came out unscathed unless they put the thing on the ground immediately wherever it would fit.

I’d love to hear some stories from more folks where it worked out that they could fly to the next airport and that airport was anything but almost directly under them while they were on fire. You just don’t hear them very often.

Twins, you do hear them, and securing and flying to nearest airport often seems to work and sometimes doesn’t. But not light singles.

Just some side commentary, no disrespect meant or assumptions of anything about the accident victims. None.
 
I wouldn’t be to wrapped up with the fire theory. The weather was on the terrible side, I think that’s what factored in heavily.

Then we can back up to the decision to fly to the family event in the 1st place. Tragic indeed, just going by percentages.
 
Weather was crap all day Sunday. A fire on the best day would be bad let alone hard IFR.
RIP
 
denverpilot said:
Not saying they knew...

On board fire is a serious “ holy ****, put this thing on the ground somewhere with or without an airport” moment for me in a typical spamcan single.

Perhaps someone here has a story or has seen it work, but these “fly faster to blow out the flames” techniques and having dinky little chemical extinguishers on board does not seem to work for much of anything when you’re really on fire.

Very few campfire stories of “there I was” with flames coming out of a cowl when you hang out with the old non-bold pilots telling war stories, where anyone came out unscathed unless they put the thing on the ground immediately wherever it would fit.

I’d love to hear some stories from more folks where it worked out that they could fly to the next airport and that airport was anything but almost directly under them while they were on fire. You just don’t hear them very often.

Twins, you do hear them, and securing and flying to nearest airport often seems to work and sometimes doesn’t. But not light singles.

Just some side commentary, no disrespect meant or assumptions of anything about the accident victims. None.
Click to expand...

Fire on board was the context cited by my primary instructor when teach emergency descents. 60 degree bank spiral, top of the yellow arc and we are coming DOWN NOW. And it goes on the ground anywhere that looks passably survivable. NOW.
 
jsstevens said:
Fire on board was the context cited by my primary instructor when teach emergency descents. 60 degree bank spiral, top of the yellow arc and we are coming DOWN NOW. And it goes on the ground anywhere that looks passably survivable. NOW.
Click to expand...

Yep. Also 30-45* bank, full flaps, descend at Vfe.
 
denverpilot said:
Not saying they knew...

On board fire is a serious “ holy ****, put this thing on the ground somewhere with or without an airport” moment for me in a typical spamcan single.

Perhaps someone here has a story or has seen it work, but these “fly faster to blow out the flames” techniques and having dinky little chemical extinguishers on board does not seem to work for much of anything when you’re really on fire.

Very few campfire stories of “there I was” with flames coming out of a cowl when you hang out with the old non-bold pilots telling war stories, where anyone came out unscathed unless they put the thing on the ground immediately wherever it would fit.

I’d love to hear some stories from more folks where it worked out that they could fly to the next airport and that airport was anything but almost directly under them while they were on fire. You just don’t hear them very often.

Twins, you do hear them, and securing and flying to nearest airport often seems to work and sometimes doesn’t. But not light singles.

Just some side commentary, no disrespect meant or assumptions of anything about the accident victims. None.
Click to expand...

Personally know two who survived GA accidents but were burned badly with years of skin grafts, etc. Both ended up at the airline. One had missing fingers on both hands.

We had a Brasilia climbing out of ATL that had one blade break off and the Capt, a friend, got it in a small field, saving some lives. The cockpit was in flames but the FO survived but was burned badly. Still was flying when I retired 5 years ago but only flew in the cooler months, not summer. A book about it, and that accident show on TV featured the crash.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Southeast_Airlines_Flight_529
 
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An engine fire is an automatic Engine out in my opinion. It's not the fire that normally kills you but the smoke.
 
mscard88 said:
Personally know two who survived GA accidents but were burned badly with years of skin grafts, etc. Both ended up at the airline. One had missing fingers on both hands.

We had a Brasilia climbing out of ATL that had one blade break off and the Capt, a friend, got it in a small field, saving some lives. The cockpit was in flames but the FO survived but was burned badly. Still was flying when I retired 5 years ago but only flew in the cooler months, not summer. A book about it, and that accident show on TV featured the crash.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Southeast_Airlines_Flight_529
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The captain showed incredible bravery and will to get that plane down. Everyone on board survived the emergency landing but the post crash fire killed several passengers.
 
Just curious, what are some potential causes of fire in a GA aircraft?
 
sarangan said:
Just curious, what are some potential causes of fire in a GA aircraft?
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In the air, busted or loose fuel line or cracked fuel components under the cowl pumping fuel on hot things is usually the most common for a full blown fire.

Oil leak, slipping alternator belt, stuck starter solenoid, and other electrical, usually less fire and more smoke.

Overpriming certain carb’d systems with an after-fire back through the carb can start a big fire quickly on the ground, but not normally a thing in flight.
 
Electrical. One had the map light switch catch fire in the pattern. Got it down but got burned up badly as I mentioned.
 
Engine catches fire I point the aircraft straight down. Vne becomes a number in a book at that point. Down, right now.

Biggest problem I'll have in this scenario is I have to unlatch the shoulder belt to reach the fuel cutoff.
 
mscard88 said:
Electrical. One had the map light switch catch fire in the pattern. Got it down but got burned up badly as I mentioned.
Click to expand...
Only time I ever declared: my right side flap motor caught fire in a rental 172...fortunately, I was on a long final when the smoke started pouring out of the wing. Surprisingly, the fire trucks beat me to the runway, which is really saying something as I was on the runway in about 45 seconds or so.
 
Keep your engines clean and look for blue stains any time the cowl is open/off.

Last fall I found the fuel line that goes from the distribution block to the rear baffle (that then goes from the baffle to the firewall, which then goes to the fuel flow/pressure gauge) was leaking. I found blue stains on the engine case under the line. Tiny tiny crack in the line right as it exits the fitting at the dist block. But my line was (is) copper and vibration or excess R/R probably did it in.

I planned on having the two lines replaced with flex line at annual, which is Monday.
 
200 foot overcast where it crashed. Eyewitnesses would have had about one second to see it before it crashed, if they looked at the right place at the right time. I wasn't there, I'm not an investigator, but I know from reading about all kinds of investigations that eyewitnesses are often the most unreliable kind of witness. Memories easily become modified by preconception or expectation when things are so sudden, quick and unfamiliar. And she didn't mention anything when she made her radio call on final. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if the investigators find no evidence of pre-impact fire.
 
I wonder if they struck a wire or something. That might explain a witness hearing a loss of power and seeing something like a fire?

Being a 182 owner and having a wife that is a pilot I think it was so cool that Grandma was flying this plane :)

On the other hand, we bought our 182 from a 80yo doctor. Although it was never explicitly stated, I think the wife and kids played a role in his retiring from flying out of fear he would make a mistake. I know there is no specific age to stop flying in GA. Maybe that Grandma could have kept ahead of that 182 another 10yrs :)

But the wx really sounded like the thing that could have been avoided. And with a event to attend there must have been pressure or urgency to fly - totally sucks :(
 
I wasn't too far off regarding the strike - not that I want to be right about something like this :(
 
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