RC Airplanes At Our Airport - Thoughts

Sinistar

Sinistar

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Brad
Yep, remote control airplane guys have been using our local airport. I noticed it last year and again on Saturday. As I was doing my preflight I watched them.

Here's what they do (facts):

Its the same truck every time.
Two guys get out with a pretty cool looking R/C airplane.
They park at our small airport building parking lot (publicly accessible side).
They first walk out onto the ramp (past the sign indicating otherwise).
They cross the ramp and walk onto the taxiway.
They setup their plane on the taxiway nearest the ramp
They launch off of the taxiway
They fly it over the departure end of the runway (I cringe when I see this part!).
If they see/hear a plane coming they land it.
If the plane needs to taxi by them they move about 10ft off the taxiway
If the plane remains in the pattern they do not launch
If the plane leaves the pattern they launch again.
It is a municipal airport with a lot of funding from the Fed and some from the city
No gate or fence around the airport.
There is signage indicating unauthorized persons are not allowed beyond a point (the ramp).

...for my flight I had to taxi by them twice. I also saw them take their pause for 2 other planes.

So what laws are these guys breaking - if any?
 
Sinistar said:
There is signage indicating unauthorized persons are not allowed beyond a point (the ramp).
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Who are the authorized people that are allowed.?

Sounds like they are pretty responsible folks, anyone talk to them and just feel them out on airport knowledge.?

Sinistar said:
If the plane needs to taxi by them they move about 10ft off the taxiway
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Outside the lights and I am happy.
 
Zeldman said:
Outside the lights and I am happy.
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Found an electrician & truck on runway once. Working on the lights. No NOTAM, no Xs. I made a lowish pass. Electrician moved truck to the side of the runway. I landed. Welcome to Wyoming...
 
Zeldman said:
Who are the authorized people that are allowed.?

Sounds like they are pretty responsible folks, anyone talk to them and just feel them out on airport knowledge.?

Outside the lights and I am happy.
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There are a few people at our sleepy airport that are really into making sure no one but a pilot or their visitor is out there. That's too restrictive if you ask me. However, it is my understanding the signage is in regards to only those personnel who are operating aircraft are allowed beyond that point and maintenance support people such as mowing, snow removal, etc. Maybe the R/C is an aircraft :)

Actually, if they are breaking some federal law I would probably tell them so they don't get thrown in jail. They'd probably think I'm trying to run them off. On the other hand I suspect at least 50% of the aircraft operators out there just do not care for the R/C stuff being out there and would prefer they be run off.

Ironically, if they would attend the EAA meeting and agree to buy and use a handheld set to our Unicom they could really get good buy in from the pilots who would probably even look the other way if there was a law being broken.

But it just feels like its only a matter of time and that one Cirrus guy who does 15mile straight in low approaches takes out the R/C plane and himself.
 
I know of a few rc plane folks who I would trust flying at the airport I’m at. Plus the planes they fly probably cost more than the one I’m flying.
 
Clark1961 said:
Found an electrician & truck on runway once. Working on the lights. No NOTAM, no Xs. I made a lowish pass. Electrician moved truck to the side of the runway. I landed. Welcome to Wyoming...
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Surprised you didn't say "snowplow"... which is what I've seen... :)
 
Sinistar said:
There are a few people at our sleepy airport that are really into making sure no one but a pilot or their visitor is out there.
Click to expand...

There are those people. We had one here. Made the city put in locked gates with codes. No airline here. Funny how his hangar was 1 of 2 that were torn down for airport improvements..;) There maybe some local ordinance not allowing pedestrians past the ramp. Like I said, talk the them, ask about their plane, tell them you just want to be sure we are all on the same page so we can play together safely. Maybe call the airport manager and ask about you flying your R/C plane and ask how or if it can be done just to see what he says.

Just throwin' out suggestions... myself, I don't care if someone wants to fly their R/C aircraft at the airport as long as they know what is going on around them. Last summer a cluster balloon carrying a folding chair and a person flew over the airport at about 1000 feet. No radio. Fortunately no aircraft was in the pattern.




Clark1961 said:
Found an electrician & truck on runway once. Working on the lights. No NOTAM, no Xs. I made a lowish pass. Electrician moved truck to the side of the runway. I landed. Welcome to Wyoming...
Click to expand...

YIKES..!!! But you can't scare me off, I still plan to retire in Wyoming...:lol::lol:
 
So if these guys were flying drones such as the very popular DJI drone would the answers be the same?
 
The FAA has historically decided R/C flying to be nonaeronautical activity and a violation of an Airport’s grant assurances.
 
Sinistar said:
Ironically, if they would attend the EAA meeting and agree to buy and use a handheld set to our Unicom they could really get good buy in from the pilots who would probably even look the other way if there was a law being broken.
Click to expand...

Invite them?
 
The airport manager at one of the fields I frequent does this. He's responsible about it, so no problem by me.

If your RC folks are responsible, I wouldn't have a problem with them either.
 
Sinistar said:
So if these guys were flying drones such as the very popular DJI drone would the answers be the same?
Click to expand...

Oddly enough drones and R/C aiplanes/Helicopters are classified differently. Now if they are using the R/C stuff with video cameras, then they may fall under the Drone Category. Either way If they don't have their 107 commercial they are not to by flying within 5 miles of an airport. With a 107 they can fly as long as they have permission.

I just took and passed my 107 so I did just learn this :) easiest 2 hours of training ever.
 
midwestpa24 said:
The FAA has historically decided R/C flying to be nonaeronautical activity and a violation of an Airport’s grant assurances.
Click to expand...

It's a violation of grant assurances only if that R/C flying activity closes the airport to piloted aircraft operations.
 
You fellas mind if I fly my plane at your airport?

 
Meh, use some common sense and I have no problem
 
Joey4420 said:
Oddly enough drones and R/C aiplanes/Helicopters are classified differently. Now if they are using the R/C stuff with video cameras, then they may fall under the Drone Category. Either way If they don't have their 107 commercial they are not to by flying within 5 miles of an airport. With a 107 they can fly as long as they have permission.

I just took and passed my 107 so I did just learn this :) easiest 2 hours of training ever.
Click to expand...

A drone is classified the same as any other model aircraft. The difference is whether it is being operated as a hobby or for commercial purposes. If you are a hobbyist you must follow the rules of part 101 in the FARs, if you are a commercial operator then you have to follow the rules of part 107. Under part 101 you have to notify the airport if you are flying within 5 miles of the airport but they don’t have to get permission.
 
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Wheels said:
A drone is classified the same as any other model aircraft. The difference is whether it is being operated as a hobby or for commercial purposes. If you are a hobbyist you must follow the rules of part 101 in the FARs, if you are a commercial operator then you have to follow the rules of part 107. Under part 101 you have to notify the airport if you are flying within 5 miles of the airport but they don’t have to get permission.
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Correct, although I'll point out that nothing prevents someone from flying as a hobbyist under part 107. If that's the case with these guys, then §107.43 applies.
 
First, if someone has the juice to get a fence with a locked gate put up around my airport I'd buy him a drink of good booze. How many people have reported being ripped off on the site? Fence helps eliminate that kind of nuisance. Doesn't automatically get rid of it, but it helps.

Second, if the RC guys have a hand-held and are taking its all good by me.
 
You’d have to look at the city ordinances for your airport to see if it’s allowed. Has nothing to do with aeronautical activity since it isn’t but the restrictions on non aeronautical activity, the FAA leaves to the city / local laws.

My airport city ordinance doesn’t list UAS activity as being prohibited but it does prohibit people / vehicles on the ramp, taxiway etc that aren’t airmen, pax, workers or those specifically authorized by the airport manager.
 
I'm pretty sure they can operate at an airport as long as they have permission to do so... Part 107 for drones requires ATC approval and a notam, but that is for non-recreational operation... My recollection when I was doing R/C was that its based on Airport management permission. I've seen many competitions flown at airports. In the olden days there was an annual competition at Sky Manor in South NJ and Floyd Bennett field in Long Island NY...I've even seen them at Old Reinbeck during Sunday shows... As far as the AMA (American Modelers Assoc is concerned:


As an AMA member I agree:

I will not fly a model aircraft in a careless or reckless manner.

I will not interfere with and will yield the right of way to all human-carrying aircraftusing AMA’s See and Avoid Guidance and a spotter when appropriate.

I will not operate any model aircraft while I am under the influence of alcohol or anydrug that could adversely affect my ability to safely control the model.

I will avoid flying directly over unprotected people, moving vehicles, and occupiedstructures.

I will fly Free Flight (FF) and Control Line (CL) models in compliance with AMA’s safetyprogramming.

I will maintain visual contact of an RC model aircraft without enhancement other thancorrective lenses prescribed to me.

When using an advanced flight system, such as anautopilot, or flying First-Person View (FPV), I will comply with AMA’s Advanced FlightSystem programming.

I will only fly models weighing more than 55 pounds, including fuel, if certified through AMA’s Large Model Airplane Program.

I will only fly a turbine-powered model aircraft in compliance with AMA’s Gas TurbineProgram.

I will not fly a powered model outdoors closer than 25 feet to any individual, except formyself or my helper(s) located at the flightline, unless I am taking off and landing, or asotherwise provided in AMA’s Competition Regulation.

I will use an established safety line to separate all model aircraft operations fromspectators and bystanders.
 
Velocity173 said:
My airport city ordinance doesn’t list UAS activity as being prohibited but it does prohibit people / vehicles on the ramp, taxiway etc that aren’t airmen, pax, workers or those specifically authorized by the airport manager.
Click to expand...

Is a drone operator an airman? Same legal status as an ultralight pilot.
 
At my airport in Mexico we had an RC club that not only flew there, but had an office and storage building. Everyone got along fine until the feds moved in and based six or eight predators there. The RC club moved on to greener pastures.
 
bflynn said:
Is a drone operator an airman? Same legal status as an ultralight pilot.
Click to expand...

Airman issued under RPA Part 107 cert are considered “airman” but their activity (minus photography), isn’t specifically listed under aeronautical activity. In fact, if the subjects in the OP’s example are model aircraft (Part 101) enthusiasts, that activity, along with model rockets,is specifically classified as non aeronautical activity. That is regulated by the city itself.

Ultralight ops are aeronautical activities but have their own sub category within the FAA AC and city ordinances.
 
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No problem at all with RC planes at the airport. We have parachutes so why not RC planes? I would gladly watch someone fly like the video that CC268 posted.

I have seen quite a few of the hangers at my little airport that have RC planes on the walls, so it looks like there is alot of "crossover" flying anyway.
 
If they have permission from the airport I'd be okay with it if I were flying in. I don't see why anyone would need to fly a model airplane at an airport. It doesn't make sense to me, and I love to fly RC.

FPV drones are a bigger problem. There's a very popular RC spot at the departure end of KCRQ (Carlsbad,CA) along the coast. It's just inside the class D ground to [25]. There was never once a mention of drone activity until drones became popular, and FPV video gear became cheap. There was never anyone at 500', because you couldn't see the model that far away. Now that FPV gear can be attached to anything, we have all kinds of high flying aircraft, with no VO. Those are the guys that should be stopped.
 
Depends on the operator qualifications. If flying under Part 101 (model aircraft, not part 107 certificated), then operations with 5 statute miles of the airport is not permitted without first notifying the airport. If flying under Part 107 (certificated UAV operator) then notification of the airport or ATC is not required in class G airspace. In any instance, operated aircraft must remain within line of sight, not above 400 AGL, and may not interfere with normal aircraft operations. While operating near or over the runway or approach path is potentially allowed under both Part 101 or 107, it may not be a very safe practice.
 
JonH said:
FPV drones are a bigger problem. There's a very popular RC spot at the departure end of KCRQ (Carlsbad,CA) along the coast. It's just inside the class D ground to [25]. There was never once a mention of drone activity until drones became popular, and FPV video gear became cheap. There was never anyone at 500', because you couldn't see the model that far away. Now that FPV gear can be attached to anything, we have all kinds of high flying aircraft, with no VO. Those are the guys that should be stopped.
Click to expand...

What's "FPV"?

What's "VO"?
 
donjohnston said:
What's "FPV"?

What's "VO"?
Click to expand...

First Person View (camera)
Visual Observer

FAA Part 107 requires a VO for FPV ops.
Model aircraft (Part 101) operating under AMA guidlines require a VO or “spotter” for FPV ops as well.
 
6B4 here in Central NY has an R/C Club based right at the airport. I only know this because when doing simulated check rides out that way we did some short field practice there, and they were flying that day. My instructor clued me in, and we just did a couple landings and left.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0173611,-75.1706373,759m/data=!3m1!1e3

The small "shack" building midfield south is their club building.
 
We fly RC on our field with permission of the city. We also fly jets which is a little more difficult at most RC club fields. The closest suitable club strip is about 40 miles away, so we rather enjoy the privilege of getting to use the local airport. We follow the guidelines of AC 91-57A with the added use of handheld transceivers for two way communication with full scale aircraft. We draw onlookers regularly, a few of our guys fly-in in their own full scale planes, and in the 20 years some of our RC pilots have been flying here, there have been very few complaints. Our group includes a commercial Piaggio/Citation X commercial pilot, two private pilots, and an active duty B1 pilot. We are not an AMA club, nor do we want to be. Just a bunch of dudes that eat, sleep, and breathe aviation of all kinds. We recognize the risk, and do the best we can to share the skies safely. We also recognize the lack of safety that some other model aircraft and drone pilots practice. My hope is that people don't let the idiots screw it all up for the rest of us.

Frankly, I think full scale pilots, of which I'm one, should embrace model aviation and welcome the use of OUR sky and our airports for all kinds of aviation fun, provided it is done safely. Understand that most of these guys love aviation as much as any full scale pilots and are just trying to enjoy it to the fullest. Aviation is aviation, the scale doesn't matter.

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