(NA) Any HVAC guys around

jaybee

jaybee

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jaybee
Need to put a new system in the house I recently bought. I grossly underestimated the cost of a new system when I bid the purchase of the house.

So I'm looking for two cents worth on what I could get by on if I choose to go bare minimum and how much I would actually save on electricity if I went all out on a 20 SEER premium model. (I've seen website claims...)

Current system best I can tell is 14 or 16 SEER. The circuit board on the air handler was bypassed with a wire and neither the heat pump or backup electrical grid heat work. The bottom of the condenser is completely rotted out though the amp draw on the motor is middle of the road and A/C side works just fine.

House is in Central Florida, 1910 sq ft living space, 5 windows, 1 patio door, block construction with stucco though the stucco is barely a scratch coat in reality.

I can do a Goodman system installed for like $5000 though reports on their quality vary widely while a top of line Trane or likewise will run 10 - 12 grand !!! (I know that there only a few manufacturer's and some come down the same assembly line with different names...)

No one had made a bid saying that any ductwork needs to be done but most are bidding a 3 ton system with the option to purchase a 4 ton. I've started a spreadsheet because its nigh impossible to compare one quote to another as they vary wildly with what is included and what is not included.

Thanks for any help.
 
I have a goodman in my house in Massachusetts. It runs from the end of April until the middle of October, generally. It was installed in 1987 and still running strong. I did have issues with spade lugs arcing and failing on the compressor, I don't think they do that any more, I did self help on those, a contractor probably would have replaced the compressor, although I don't know that. It runs great. I just replaced a Lennox (evaporator had a hole, and it was old) with a goodman in my summer house, that runs great too. I told the contractor I didn't want the fancy circuit boards so I ended up with a 15 or 16 seer, can't remember, but it runs great. Single speed compressor and fixed speed fan. Works great for me, you being in FL may want to go with the variable speed stuff, but I didn't want the aggravation. In my opinion don't fall for the salesmanship and make sure any energy savings calculations are done between a new 16 seer and 20 seer using your power costs.
 
Thanks Paul, yea I'd definitely like to hear some real world 16 vs 20 SEER savings stories.
 
I'd get more quotes. Around 2 years ago, I put a 3.5 ton, 14 SEER Trane system in my 2100 sq ft house for around $4,865.

I would have put in a higher seer unit, but I live on the intracoastal waterway (brackish) and about a half mile from the ocean. Air Conditioning units don't last long here so it doesn't make sense putting in an expensive high seer unit to save on electricity when it is going to cost a bunch to replace soon anyway.
 
My 4 ton 16 seer system was in the area of $4,500 to $5,500, to replace existing system. Included new refrigerant lines, reused air filter and only minimal mod to existing ducts.
 
I had heard from my HVAC instructor that the Japanese bought the Goodman factory and put $750 million into it to refurbish it and pull up the quality. You can buy a 16 seer 4 ton Goodman online on Amazon for $1430. And then install it yourself or get somebody to throw in four hours of labor .that is my plan when I need to replace mine. I think it's crazy that air conditioning units are going for eight to $10,000 installed. I think the whole HVAC thing is a complete and utter rip off. There isn't that much to them. But I am not going to get started down that path. And I think the high seer units are a waste of money, they are awash at best.
 
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JOhnH said:
I'd get more quotes. Around 2 years ago, I put a 3.5 ton, 14 SEER Trane system in my 2100 sq ft house for around $4,865.

I would have put in a higher seer unit, but I live on the intracoastal waterway (brackish) and about a half mile from the ocean. Air Conditioning units don't last long here so it doesn't make sense putting in an expensive high seer unit to save on electricity when it is going to cost a bunch to replace soon anyway.
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You're in Ormond Beach right? Do you know if your contractor can/will work in Brevard County - Cocoa ? Can you PM me the name or put it here ? Thanks
 
Morgan3820 said:
I had heard from my HVAC instructor that the Japanese bought the Goodman factory and put $750 million into it to refurbish it and pull up the quality. You can buy a 16 seer 4 ton Goodman online on Amazon for $1430. And then install it yourself or get somebody to throw in four hours of labor .that is my plan when I need to replace mine. I think it's crazy that air conditioning units are going for eight to $10,000 installed. I think the whole HVAC thing is a complete and utter rip off. There isn't that much to them. But I am not going to get started down that path. And I think the high seer units are a waste of money, they are awash at best.
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Yes I was totally taken back by the quotes.

Buy one on Amazon... Interesting...
 
jaybee said:
You're in Ormond Beach right? Do you know if your contractor can/will work in Brevard County - Cocoa ? Can you PM me the name or put it here ? Thanks
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Yes, I am in Ormond Beach. I checked their web site and they only list Volusia and Flagler Counties, but I will email their manager and ask him. He knows me pretty well because in the past 10 years I have bought 5 systems from him. (two for my previous house, two for the business I sold two years ago and the one in my current house). I'll let you know what he says.
 
Alpine Home Air in Chicago sells Goodman air conditioning units to homeowners:

https://www.alpinehomeair.com/search/results/?q=16+seer+4+ton

I bought a Goodman furnace from them, had it delivered to my driveway in CA, and installed it on my own. I called them a couple of times with questions and they were super helpful.

Goodman.jpg


The HVAC contractors wanted about $4,000 to install a similar furnace. The furnace was about $600. I spent another $1,000 on supplies and tools. It was fun and I learned a lot.
 
jaybee said:
most are bidding a 3 ton system with the option to purchase a 4 ton.
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Do NOT oversize! You want the unit to run almost non-stop on a hot summer day when the outside temps are near or at the summer design dry bulb temp. The more your unit runs, the more humidity it removes and the more comfortable the interior air is. This is especially important with the newer units because they don't remove humidity quite as well as the old ones did.

I'm not saying that 4 tons is oversized, I have no idea, just saying that you if you properly size the unit, then you'll be a lot happier with the results. Bigger is definitely not always better when it comes to HVAC.

What size is the current unit? Did you have the house last summer and did keep up on a hot day? That'd be the first clue without having an engineer do the calcs.
 
Honestly, pretty much any brand of standard residential dx split equipment will provide satisfactory service. The internal components are generally similar in construction and quality. The industry average anticipated service life for a dx split, in your area, is approximately 10 years. You can raise the price when you start adding things like variable speed, corrosion protection, extreme SEER ratings, zoning, sheet metal duct, etc..

If you're talking to a "crankshaft" contractor who is offering you the option of a 36000 btu unit, or, if you like, a 48000 btu unit, walk away.

Your contractor needs to first perform a heatload calculation for your structure. Then, he should evaluate your existing unit, (corrosion, wiring, general condition, etc..) and then evaluate your existing ductwork for proper air distribution. He should go away and do his equipment selection, and then present you with your options and pricing.

There are lots of residential "crankshafts" out there. Take your time, evaluate, then decide. Several years ago, The Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation made it mandatory that all HVAC contractors and technicians be registered with the state. It has slowed down some of the "crankshafts", but not totally eliminated them. You might check to see if Florida has similar rules. By the way....... Don't get all wrapped around the axle with Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratings. That's a sales tool.
 
Art Rose said:
If you're talking to a "crankshaft" contractor who is offering you the option of a 36000 btu unit, or, if you like, a 48000 btu unit, walk away.

Your contractor needs to first perform a heatload calculation for your structure. Then, he should evaluate your existing unit, (corrosion, wiring, general condition, etc..) and then evaluate your existing ductwork for proper air distribution. He should go away and do his equipment selection, and then present you with your options and pricing.
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ding ding ding ding
 
Thanks for all the input.

I know a small amount about HVAC so the not overbuying is definitely on my mind.

I've been trying to remotely manage this while flying for the Regionals and maintaining my Air Guard career. I haven't met any of the contractors personally as my Dad has been trying to help me out.

At this point other than the heat not working I'm thinking I should just run this thing until it dies.

Re the running all the time and the humidity and don't buy into the high SEER stuff, I'm sure ya'll know but just checking that they say these high SEER units will run all day (if needed) at like 50% power and only kick up to 100% if needed. Sounds good anyhow.

Does anybody know if there is a heat load calculator online (one I tried says 3.5 ton another one says 4 ton...)?

Thanks again ya'll
 
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jaybee said:
Thanks for all the input.

I know a small amount about HVAC so the not overbuying is definitely on my mind.

I've been trying to remotely manage this while flying for the Regionals and maintaining my Air Guard career. I haven't met any of the contractors personally as my Dad has been trying to help me out.

At this point other than the heat not working I'm thinking I should just run this thing until it dies.

Re the running all the time and the humidity and don't buy into the high SEER stuff, I'm sure ya'll know but just checking that they say these high SEER units will run all day (if needed) at like 50% power and only kick up to 100% if needed. Sounds good anyhow.

Does anybody know if there is a heat load calculator online (one I tried says 3.5 ton another one says 4 ton...)?

Thanks again ya'll
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https://www.calculator.net/btu-calculator.html

As others have said, you don't want the A/C to be too large because it'll cycle quickly and not remove the humidity.
 
Why don't you just buy a new circuit board? Probably just a few hundred bucks.
 
PaulS said:
Why don't you just buy a new circuit board? Probably just a few hundred bucks.
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That would fix the emer heat but the reverser valve is inop and heat pump doesn't work as well as the bottom of the condenser being completely rotted out
 
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