New Commercial ACS... complex plane not required?

That would be sweet.
 
They also changed the page in the appendix (A-19) for required equipment. It used to state that the aircraft must be complex or turbine powered. The new change just states that a complex plane must be used for a AMEL or AMES practical test.
 
I was just telling one of my students to just tell the examiner that he saw it on facebookz and that he doesn’t need a complex aircraft. Just chatted with a rock star DPE who said he has heard rumors but nothing from the FAA. Would seem that they would know so that they can properly administer the checkride.
 
So, the only reason Piper Arrows are still produced ends in 3....2....1....
 
Landing Fees said:
I was just telling one of my students to just tell the examiner that he saw it on facebookz and that he doesn’t need a complex aircraft. Just chatted with a rock star DPE who said he has heard rumors but nothing from the FAA. Would seem that they would know so that they can properly administer the checkride.
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Examiners are supposed to read the ACS/PTS like everybody else.
 
Just saw this and love it. I am doing my CPL in my Dakoya and now it looks like I don't need the local Arrow for the ride. How solid is this rule?
 
Walboy said:
Someone on the red board is saying the complex requirements have been removed from the CFI PTS too.
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Yes, it is very clear in the CFI PTS.

Change 6 (April 19, 2018)
• Removed the complex airplane requirement from practical tests for an airplane single-engine instructor rating and made corresponding changes to Task elements and the following sections in the Introduction:
o “AircraftandEquipmentRequiredforthePracticalTest” o “Renewal or Reinstatement of a Flight Instructor
Certificate”
 
This could create a glut of high time complex aircraft,hitting the used market.
 
paflyer said:
That would be sweet.
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You're telling me. I've got plenty of complex time. It would be nice to be able to use my cheap club 172 and finish out my commercial training.

Has to be too good to be true.
 
I guess AOPA doesn't read the ACS either, you would think they would have sent out a blast to everybody.
 
Interesting...... I’m sitting at 220 hours and just starting to think about commercial training. I’ll be curious to hear more about this.
 
Landing Fees said:
I guess AOPA doesn't read the ACS either, you would think they would have sent out a blast to everybody.
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Yeah. Has me wondering whether this is true, or inadvertently done. If a mistake by language, I expect it to be rescinded pretty quick.
 
There is a thread on Beechtalk about it too. They seem to think it's true too.

Effective 4/19, but published today, is Change 3 to the Commercial ACS that adds the following language to the Appendix (pg. A-19): "A complex airplane must be used for an AMEL or AMES practical test, as defined in 14 CFR part 61, section 61.1." There is no similar requirement in the ACS for an ASEL/S practical test.
 
I personally think the whole Flying Circus swoopy manuevers bit is goofy. There has to be a more relevant way to demonstrate advanced competency, especially in an era of airliners that fly themselves.
 
paflyer said:
I personally think the whole Flying Circus swoopy manuevers bit is goofy. There has to be a more relevant way to demonstrate advanced competency, especially in an era of airliners that fly themselves.
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If airliners that fly themselves is the entire goal, it's easy enough to skip the commercial single engine and leave the whole Flying Circus swoopy maneuvers bit to those who might actually fly airplanes.
 
Hmm...so I can do the commercial in my Cherokee 140 then?
 
MauleSkinner said:
If airliners that fly themselves is the entire goal, it's easy enough to skip the commercial single engine and leave the whole Flying Circus swoopy maneuvers bit to those who might actually fly airplanes.
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Well, in fact that is the goal. Why is the Waldo Pepper routine only applicable to SE, and ME there's no requirement?
 
paflyer said:
Well, in fact that is the goal.
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That may be the goal for you, but not for everyone. Believe it or not, many people actually enjoy flying airplanes rather than being flown.
paflyer said:
Why is the Waldo Pepper routine only applicable to SE, and ME there's no requirement?
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Maybe because significantly fewer commercial operations in multi engine airplanes than in single engine airplanes require much in the way of maneuvering.
 
Fars still require 10 hours of complex. Looking forward to not subjecting our 182rg to commercial maneuvers and let it be used to build some relatively gentle complex insturction. Will be a fun to do a couple xcs and a complex checkout checkout and then do the maneuvers in our archers or warrior.
 
MauleSkinner said:
That may be the goal for you, but not for everyone. Believe it or not, many people actually enjoy flying airplanes rather than being flown.

Maybe because significantly fewer commercial operations in multi engine airplanes than in single engine airplanes require much in the way of maneuvering.
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Goal for me? It's well known that the airlines are working towards elimination of one pilot, and eventually both.

What kind of maneuvering? Crop dusting? How many people become crop dusters compared to other commercial activities? Make it a special rating, like seaplanes.
 
Here is the proposed rule (not finalized yet that I can tell). w w w.regulations.gov/document?D=FAA-2016-6142-0001

This rulemaking also would address changing technologies by accommodating the use of technically advanced airplanes as an alternative to the use of older complex single engine airplanes for the commercial pilot training and testing requirements.
 
I don't think they can make a huge change like that without opening to public comment. I am going to invalidate my commercial pilot's certificate until I get the whole truth.
 
paflyer said:
Goal for me? It's well known that the airlines are working towards elimination of one pilot, and eventually both.

What kind of maneuvering? Crop dusting? How many people become crop dusters compared to other commercial activities? Make it a special rating, like seaplanes.
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I'd encourage you to broaden your horizons.

Ag aviation does require a separate checkride.
 
Pilawt said:
I did just that in 1969-70. What goes around comes around. :)
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Haha I was a year early, could've done it in my own plane now. And the amount of money I've made first year flying commercially, I probably would've still been ahead waiting a year :D
 
So the real change is the checkride can be in a Cherokee..arrows will still be needed.
 
kenthedragon said:
Here is the proposed rule (not finalized yet that I can tell). w w w.regulations.gov/document?D=FAA-2016-6142-0001

This rulemaking also would address changing technologies by accommodating the use of technically advanced airplanes as an alternative to the use of older complex single engine airplanes for the commercial pilot training and testing requirements.
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Ah, there's the rub. So much for using my six-pack ol' Cherokee.
 
5. Guidance. The FAA has determined that any airplane may be used to accomplish the tasks prescribed in the initial commercial pilot with an airplane single-engine rating practical test or a flight instructor with an airplane single-engine rating practical test, provided that airplane is capable of accomplishing all areas of operation required for the practical test and is the appropriate category and class for the rating sought. Therefore, the airplane used for the practical test must still meet the requirements specified in § 61.45.
 
d. There is no change to the complex airplane training and endorsement requirements of
§ 61.31(e) or to the commercial pilot aeronautical experience requirements of § 61.129(a)(3)(ii) or part 141 appendix D.
 
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