ForeFlight 10 announced

[timwinters]

Agree. I upgraded to an IPAD 4 after an IPAD 2. What a world of difference.

I have an air2 and the speed has decreased significantly over the last year or so. The slowdown history seems to coincide with Apple started releasing updates at the speed of sound.

Also, my misc apps that used to be rock solid are regularly crashing these days, don't know if that's because the air2 is getting longer in the tooth causing apps to quit running smoothly....or if the app developers are getting tired of trying to keep up with Apple's weekly changes. I suspect the latter.

This is especially true of streaming tv and radio news, I can't watch over 10 or 15 minutes of the local news without it crashing...this is true of all three of the stations I watch.

 

[AKiss20]

Agree. I upgraded to an IPAD 4 after an IPAD 2. What a world of difference.

Even an iPad 4 is now 4 generations out of date (looking at the SOC)!

 

[AKiss20]

I have an air2 and the speed has decreased significantly over the last year or so. The slowdown history seems to coincide with Apple started releasing updates at the speed of sound.

Also, my misc apps that used to be rock solid are regularly crashing these days, don't know if that's because the air2 is getting longer in the tooth causing apps to quit running smoothly....or if the app developers are getting tired of trying to keep up with Apple's weekly changes. I suspect the latter.

This is especially true of streaming tv and radio news, I can't watch over 10 or 15 minutes of the local news without it crashing...this is true of all three of the stations I watch.

iOS 11 has largely been considered one of the buggier releases of iOS in a while. I agree that the yearly update cycle forces the dev team to push things out earlier than desired, rather than when they are actually done. That being said, the increased bugginess may also be a byproduct of iOS simply getting much more complex. In the early days it was a dead simple operating system with very tightly controlled restrictions on what apps could do. Now it has much more on its plate with ever more complex multi-tasking and app backgrounding, scalable UI for the increasing number of screen sizes, more complicated data exchange between apps and servers, etc etc. As the system increases in capability and, consequently complexity, more bugs are likely to be expected.

 

[denverpilot]

One of the things I like about @denverpilot is that he’s a techie with a soul and a sense of humor I’ve been in the business many years, gone from tech to exec, and I can tell you that’s a rare combination of qualities.

Wherever we’ve deployed an iPad as an “enterprise need” for a business exec, we’ve taken it back within a few months at most. It does just enough to meet the needs of an individual and lacks just enough functionality to not meet the needs of a business person. They get frustrated, so we re-purpose the device to some niche use or application.

That said, I love my iPads, have since Gen 1, and they have their place in my life. My Surface Pro takes care of the biz, but it’s the iPad that goes with me from the couch to the cockpit.

All of the Surface Pros are already gone from our execs that thought they wanted them. They have serious heat dissipation problems when used on desks trying to drive multiple monitors in a kinda “docked laptop” role.

Quite similar problems with a number of small laptops. Intel is careful to state that their i7 lineup will run superspeed at some unholy clock rate, BUT... only if the cooling is sufficient to do so. Most of the mobile i7 chips don’t ever get anywhere close to their ratings because the micro-fans and little heat pipes and stuff just don’t pull enough heat out of the chips.

iOS 11 has largely been considered one of the buggier releases of iOS in a while. I agree that the yearly update cycle forces the dev team to push things out earlier than desired, rather than when they are actually done. That being said, the increased bugginess may also be a byproduct of iOS simply getting much more complex. In the early days it was a dead simple operating system with very tightly controlled restrictions on what apps could do. Now it has much more on its plate with ever more complex multi-tasking and app backgrounding, scalable UI for the increasing number of screen sizes, more complicated data exchange between apps and servers, etc etc. As the system increases in capability and, consequently complexity, more bugs are likely to be expected.

LOL! Bravo! That post won me marketing BINGO with all those buzz phrases!

Multi-tasking? Yawn. Every OS except iOS has been doing that for decades. They finally allowed users to run two whole things at the same time. They just put everything else to sleep. Screen sizes? Another yawner. And most “data exchange” is just done with https behind the scenes most the vast majority of apps. Usually with some sort of RESTful protocol layered on top. It’s not really complex, just wasteful of bandwidth and time. Very poorly thought out because the networks are usually fast and reliable. Many apps fall on their face with slow or broken networking because the coder never considered it. They’re just relying on the OS to say the cellular network died.

It’s just bloatware. Nobody ever needed their app page to have 3D effects as they turn the screen left and right.

If you want some real fun hand a long time Android tablet user an iPad and watch them try to customize it to their liking. “Why the **** won’t it let me move this app there?!” Stuff like that. Hilarious to watch. Sad though. Apple still can’t get multitasking right.

I’d love to start a download of charts in Foreflgiht and then go do something else and actually have it finish in the background. Good lord that’s dumb.

 

[AKiss20]

LOL! Bravo! That post won me marketing BINGO with all those buzz phrases!

Multi-tasking? Yawn. Every OS except iOS has been doing that for decades. They finally allowed users to run two whole things at the same time. They just put everything else to sleep. Screen sizes? Another yawner. And most “data exchange” is just done with https behind the scenes most the vast majority of apps. Usually with some sort of RESTful protocol layered on top. It’s not really complex, just wasteful of bandwidth and time. Very poorly thought out because the networks are usually fast and reliable. Many apps fall on their face with slow or broken networking because the coder never considered it. They’re just relying on the OS to say the cellular network died.

It’s just bloatware. Nobody ever needed their app page to have 3D effects as they turn the screen left and right.

If you want some real fun hand a long time Android tablet user an iPad and watch them try to customize it to their liking. “Why the **** won’t it let me move this app there?!” Stuff like that. Hilarious to watch. Sad though. Apple still can’t get multitasking right.

I’d love to start a download of charts in Foreflgiht and then go do something else and actually have it finish in the background. Good lord that’s dumb.

Android added splitscreen multitasking in June 2016 with Android 7 Nougat, actually a year after iOS9 added its first variant of splitscreen multitasking. Of course desktop OSes have allowed this forever, but you are completely ignoring the different power budgets associated with mobile operating systems. Android and Apple have selected different tradeoffs in this arena, with Android being more permissive of background tasks than Apple, and suffering in standby battery life as a result. You can't expect the basic UNIX scheduler, designed for a completely different environment, to work that well on a system where power is at such a premium. And yes most apps use pretty basic data exchange with RESTful web APIs, but the OS has to handle the inter-app communication which is substantially more difficult in iOS with its mandated sandboxing. You may not agree with Apple's decision to sandbox its apps, but the decision was made and there are now consequences to it. Both Apple and Google also provide essentially transparent data syncing for developers (iCloud/Android Data Sync), something that Android is beating Apple at whole heartedly.

All this being said, I am hardly saying that both Apple and Android doesn't have its faults or bloatware. The arbitrary decision for the yearly release cycle (talk about marketing BS) is stupid, release it when it is done. iOS10 and iOS11 certainly added some bloat, you only need to look at the Messages app in the last year to see that is the case. I know you are a Linux admin and thus you likely prefer the tradeoffs that Android has chosen over those that Apple has, but just because you prefer those tradeoffs doesn't make it a universal good. I think it's great that Android and Apple are battling it out, and that there are different OSes with different tradeoffs available for different people. If you feel that you have all the solutions to Apple's problems, I suggest you apply for a job there. They certainly could pay you handsomely for it.

 

[denverpilot]

Android added splitscreen multitasking in June 2016 with Android 7 Nougat, actually a year after iOS9 added its first variant of splitscreen multitasking. Of course desktop OSes have allowed this forever, but you are completely ignoring the different power budgets associated with mobile operating systems. Android and Apple have selected different tradeoffs in this arena, with Android being more permissive of background tasks than Apple, and suffering in standby battery life as a result. You can't expect the basic UNIX scheduler, designed for a completely different environment, to work that well on a system where power is at such a premium. And yes most apps use pretty basic data exchange with RESTful web APIs, but the OS has to handle the inter-app communication which is substantially more difficult in iOS with its mandated sandboxing. You may not agree with Apple's decision to sandbox its apps, but the decision was made and there are now consequences to it. Both Apple and Google also provide essentially transparent data syncing for developers (iCloud/Android Data Sync), something that Android is beating Apple at whole heartedly.

All this being said, I am hardly saying that both Apple and Android doesn't have its faults or bloatware. The arbitrary decision for the yearly release cycle (talk about marketing BS) is stupid, release it when it is done. iOS10 and iOS11 certainly added some bloat, you only need to look at the Messages app in the last year to see that is the case. I know you are a Linux admin and thus you likely prefer the tradeoffs that Android has chosen over those that Apple has, but just because you prefer those tradeoffs doesn't make it a universal good. I think it's great that Android and Apple are battling it out, and that there are different OSes with different tradeoffs available for different people. If you feel that you have all the solutions to Apple's problems, I suggest you apply for a job there. They certainly could pay you handsomely for it.

Found a fanboy! LOL.

Nope. Not ignoring the power budget at all. I know how to close things I’m not using. Not really all that hard but I know consumer devices are built for idiots.

Now you’re saying this magic “complexity” comes from “inter-app communication” eh? Which apps talk to each other? Do tell. This should be good. Do they talk to each other while they’re asleep in an OS that allows two of them to run at a time? Hahaha. The “complexity” is stunning.

And no, working for Apple is not on my short or long lists of anything I’d be even slightly interested in wasting time on. Easier to just buy their competitor’s products.

But I see you agree they’re adding bloat. You finally got there. Recall the original assertion here.

They’re busy playing with their “pencils”. LOL.

 

[gkainz]

... I know how to close things I’m not using...

Did you get the same post-battery replacement training for the iPhone that I did?
Genius Bar Genius (TM): "Don't close the apps in the background any more. It takes more battery to relaunch them than it does to leave them in the background."
Me: SMH ... "ok"

 

[denverpilot]

Did you get the same post-battery replacement training for the iPhone that I did?
Genius Bar Genius (TM): "Don't close the apps in the background any more. It takes more battery to relaunch them than it does to leave them in the background."
Me: SMH ... "ok"

I read it online and thought the same thing. Let’s see, I’m not going to use this again for a week... I should definitely leave it in the background... hahaha. I think they literally made that crap up as a cover story for bad battery manufacture and/or a bad charging circuit frying batteries.

That totally sounds like some engineering manager somewhere in a meeting to me, doesn’t it you? Engineers facepalming as the manager said it into some speakerphone and then it grew legs. I can picture it. BTDT. Got the t-shirt.

 

[AKiss20]

Found a fanboy! LOL.

Nope. Not ignoring the power budget at all. I know how to close things I’m not using. Not really all that hard but I know consumer devices are built for idiots.

Now you’re saying this magic “complexity” comes from “inter-app communication” eh? Which apps talk to each other? Do tell. This should be good. Do they talk to each other while they’re asleep in an OS that allows two of them to run at a time? Hahaha. The “complexity” is stunning.

And no, working for Apple is not on my short or long lists of anything I’d be even slightly interested in wasting time on. Easier to just buy their competitor’s products.

But I see you agree they’re adding bloat. You finally got there. Recall the original assertion here.

They’re busy playing with their “pencils”. LOL.

Nope not a fanboy, in fact I am typically amongst the more critical of Apple, especially as of late with some of their design decisions in the latest generation Macbook Pro and their inability to make Siri even slightly competitive, in the technology forums I am active in. I use their products personally, but my daily driver at work is Ubuntu and I maintain our computational cluster that runs all Centos. The fact that you immediately dismiss me as a fanboy is telling though. You seem to be quite intent on convincing yourself of your superiority based on your purchasing decisions.

If you want to educate yourself on inter-app communication and the extension framework, feel free to read the Apple developer page on it (here). It is used all over the place (e.g. saving a document to dropbox), and is similar to the Android "intents" framework. Just because you don't know what it is doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Furthermore, you first complain that the OS puts all apps in the background to sleep immediately and does not allow them to operate in the background, and then you laugh at the idea of leaving an app in the background for a week because it will waste battery. Which is it? Those two arguments are mutually exclusive (hint: neither is completely accurate).

Force quitting apps constantly can actually use more battery than allowing them to sit idle in the background. As you yourself noted, the iOS scheduler is aggressive about suspending apps in the background; suspended apps use no power. Force quitting an app causes it to lose its state and purges everything associated with that app from RAM. Re-launching forces it to re-load everything, including potentially hitting the NIC or cell radio and location services to re-obtain information. That is more battery intensive than just un-suspending the app which is what would have been done if you opened it again without force quitting. The OS will automatically purge the least frequently used app's data from RAM if more is needed for the current task, so purging an app from RAM arbitrarily has no utility.

If the app is using background app refresh and you do not intend on using the app for an extended period of time, then force quitting may save battery. This is especially true for certain "problematic" apps that do everything in their power to stay running as much as possible, battery life and user experience be damned (e.g. Facebook & Uber). It really depends on the circumstances and neither is entirely correct or incorrect. Like almost everything in the world, the true answer is nuanced. Absolute statements rarely are accurate, no matter how snarkily they are presented.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

@AKiss20, I was going to explain how this stuff actually works to @denverpilot, but you did it beautifully. Thank you.

 

[AKiss20]

@AKiss20, I was going to explain how this stuff actually works to @denverpilot, but you did it beautifully. Thank you.

Thank you! I try my best to bring some rationality and fact to the religious war that seems to be Apple vs Android or Apple vs Microsoft (although I will admit to cursing Windows on more than one occasion, typically when I am forced to support it ). I do not see why so many people need to wrap their identity into which products they buy or put down others for having different needs or priorities.

 

[Sam D]

I've enjoyed apple products over the years (seeing the Mac at the west coast computer show in '84 blew me away). But, and maybe I'm reading too much into it, it seems that Mr. Jobs has indeed left the building when I'm trying to use my iphone 7 on a desk and it doesn't lie flat due to the camera. (Yeah, yeah if I had a case it wouldn't do that. But if Johnny Ive wanted me to have a case he would have designed me one!)

 

[AKiss20]

I've enjoyed apple products over the years (seeing the Mac at the west coast computer show in '84 blew me away). But, and maybe I'm reading too much into it, it seems that Mr. Jobs has indeed left the building when I'm trying to use my iphone 7 on a desk and it doesn't lie flat due to the camera. (Yeah, yeah if I had a case it wouldn't do that. But if Johnny Ive wanted me to have a case he would have designed me one!)

Yes unfortunately I think the company has suffered a bit on the design and usability side since Jobs passed away. Tim Cook is a very good operations guy, and clearly good at making the company money, but he is not a "product guy." Jobs seemed like he was very passionate about products and the user experience and a perfectionist to a neurotic level. IMO he balanced Ive's tendency to put form over function and make everything beautiful, even at the expense of usability. It is also pretty clear that Cook doesn't care much about the Mac and it has really shown these past few years with spotty updates, old products languishing but still being sold for ridiculous prices, and a lack of dedication of resources to macOS.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

So, after all that, it's finally up in the App Store, and I can talk about it.

The new search is pretty cool. You can even search for a street address, which is pretty nice if you want to find the nearest airport to your actual destination, or give someone a ride over their house if you don't otherwise know how to find it from the air. @Ted DuPuis, this is how I found your house for my flyover the day of the bonfire.

Someone was just bitching about downloads not being automatic - @denverpilot, was that you? Well, they are now.

Airspace in the profile view makes the profile view a lot more useful, especially in flight. And if you're going to clip the outer ring of a C, for example, you'll see it as just a box that you can fly over or under.

It's worth a look here to see the latest features.

 

[denverpilot]

Nope not a fanboy, in fact I am typically amongst the more critical of Apple, especially as of late with some of their design decisions in the latest generation Macbook Pro and their inability to make Siri even slightly competitive, in the technology forums I am active in. I use their products personally, but my daily driver at work is Ubuntu and I maintain our computational cluster that runs all Centos. The fact that you immediately dismiss me as a fanboy is telling though. You seem to be quite intent on convincing yourself of your superiority based on your purchasing decisions.

If you want to educate yourself on inter-app communication and the extension framework, feel free to read the Apple developer page on it (here). It is used all over the place (e.g. saving a document to dropbox), and is similar to the Android "intents" framework. Just because you don't know what it is doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Furthermore, you first complain that the OS puts all apps in the background to sleep immediately and does not allow them to operate in the background, and then you laugh at the idea of leaving an app in the background for a week because it will waste battery. Which is it? Those two arguments are mutually exclusive (hint: neither is completely accurate).

Force quitting apps constantly can actually use more battery than allowing them to sit idle in the background. As you yourself noted, the iOS scheduler is aggressive about suspending apps in the background; suspended apps use no power. Force quitting an app causes it to lose its state and purges everything associated with that app from RAM. Re-launching forces it to re-load everything, including potentially hitting the NIC or cell radio and location services to re-obtain information. That is more battery intensive than just un-suspending the app which is what would have been done if you opened it again without force quitting. The OS will automatically purge the least frequently used app's data from RAM if more is needed for the current task, so purging an app from RAM arbitrarily has no utility.

If the app is using background app refresh and you do not intend on using the app for an extended period of time, then force quitting may save battery. This is especially true for certain "problematic" apps that do everything in their power to stay running as much as possible, battery life and user experience be damned (e.g. Facebook & Uber). It really depends on the circumstances and neither is entirely correct or incorrect. Like almost everything in the world, the true answer is nuanced. Absolute statements rarely are accurate, no matter how snarkily they are presented.

Delving into the stupidity of their design choices in this regard wasn't the point. The poor advice they give to customers to cover for their overly complex power-saving design, was. When most of the problems experienced are actually the battery itself failing due to improper charging and poor build quality of the cells themselves.

If the user is too dumb to close things they're not using, they're stuck making up silly things like that.

I'm fully aware of all of that garbage above. It's garbage trying to cover up two problems... the devices need to physically be bigger for the battery life needed, and the users need to be less stupid. But we've all been designing for stupid for so long now, y'all assume it's a given.

(Would you really be using Ubuntu as a daily driver if you weren't quite a bit less stupid than the average computer user? LOL...)

So, after all that, it's finally up in the App Store, and I can talk about it.
Someone was just bitching about downloads not being automatic - @denverpilot, was that you? Well, they are now.

Airspace in the profile view makes the profile view a lot more useful, especially in flight. And if you're going to clip the outer ring of a C, for example, you'll see it as just a box that you can fly over or under.

As far the download thing... Saw it coming in the announcement. Glad they caught up to Garmin. Already done there a couple versions ago, looks like.

Airspace in the profile view... ahh... I thought they were also doing weather in the profile view... so they're still not caught up to that company that did the profile view on Windows tablets over a decade ago... heh...

(You know, the one that sued people over the magenta line and shall not be named... may they rot in hell... their profile view had both airspace and weather depicted a LOOOOONG time ago... in fact quite a number of the features of FF are still just copying that software... jerks or not, and they were definitely jerks... they were WAY ahead of their time... maybe FF was waiting until their silly patents expired? LOL...)

 

[CC268]

denverpilot only buys Nokia product

 

[mwagg737]

Ohhh the humanniittyyy! What would we do without you old guys complaining about new tech!

Just kidding. EFBs are for inferior pilots. I only use paper charts and a slide rule.

How about the wind triangle?!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[AKiss20]

Delving into the stupidity of their design choices in this regard wasn't the point. The poor advice they give to customers to cover for their overly complex power-saving design, was. When most of the problems experienced are actually the battery itself failing due to improper charging and poor build quality of the cells themselves.

If the user is too dumb to close things they're not using, they're stuck making up silly things like that.

I'm fully aware of all of that garbage above. It's garbage trying to cover up two problems... the devices need to physically be bigger for the battery life needed, and the users need to be less stupid. But we've all been designing for stupid for so long now, y'all assume it's a given.

(Would you really be using Ubuntu as a daily driver if you weren't quite a bit less stupid than the average computer user? LOL...)

Once again your need to declare your superiority and every one else's inferiority speaks more to your own issues and insecurities than anything else. Interacting with people who constantly feel the need to hurl insults at others rather than make any form of cogent argument is rather wearisome, and frankly I have better uses of my time, so I wish you a good night and welcome you to my ignore list.

 

[denverpilot]

Once again your need to declare your superiority and every one else's inferiority speaks more to your own issues and insecurities than anything else. Interacting with people who constantly feel the need to hurl insults at others rather than make any form of cogent argument is rather wearisome, and frankly I have better uses of my time, so I wish you a good night and welcome you to my ignore list.

I have zero “insecurities” about this. I’ve seen good software. It looks absolutely nothing like “consumer grade” software. It’s also really expensive.

I’ve also got a lifetime of watching computer users under my belt doing a whole bunch of things on computers that don’t really require a computer, even when the task is made more difficult by the computer.

That particular perspective is slowly disappearing, since many have now grown up where computers are simply part of the landscape and they wouldn’t even have the frame of reference to know how it was done without them.

You want out of the discussion, that’s clear, but you really didn’t address my major points. Delving into minutae of OSs and their silly power management schemes was a very late addition to the conversation by another member here who also remembers when a computer wasn’t the best business or personal answer to anything.

Computer marketing is truly impressive. You should look at it rationally sometime from a perspective of “is this thing even necessary for this job?” It’s interesting.

Also compare the actual work output of a person with a computer from the early computer days to now. It’s not that much more work, for a lot of money spent on it.

To use the example from above, @flyingcheesehead said someone would be “laughed at” if they did word processing on an old Apple and printed it on an ImageWriter today... which says a lot more about the marketing than whether their peers would actually read the document or judge it on measurable merits, if you really think about it.

I know some people I would read and heed whatever they wrote, even if they did it on an IBM Selectric and had to cross out errors typing it with a pen.

Anyone who would laugh at the medium they use, is as shallow as a mall koi pond.

I know of at least one famous book author who writes them all with a legal pad and a pencil. His job is writing. He lets someone else type the silly thing into whatever machine du jour the publisher wants it in. He’s been publishing books now since the IBM Selectric days.

Writing something on a computer doesn’t make it smart. Doesn’t even make it useful. Might make it “pretty” with a nice font on the laser printer though.

Interestingly Kent (mentioned above) is one of the only business computer users I know who actually uses the computational power of the computer to make his work better/possible. He’s not exactly doing data entry in a call center for a living.

My first call center was full of Wyse 60 terminals hooked to a custom VME backplane device running Motorola 68000 series processors running on Microware OS/9. The latest is all Win10 hooked to Apache talking to a custom *nix variant. The telecom was carried via muxes to other states from their headsets in the first one, VoIP over H.323 in the latest.

In between every possible OS including OS/2 Warp with a Sybase SQL Anywhere back end...

The job nor the output of those thousands (literally thousands) of workers changed one bit. (One bit. Get it? ahhh fun.) Answer the “phone”, enter data, look up some stuff.

Seriously considering seeing if Chromebooks can do the job in the current one. No point in paying for MSFT really. It’s a dumb terminal’s job with a web browser. An old school terminal wouldn’t be exploitable at the OS level, and would save a bunch of money if they were still available.

One place did that with Citrix. LOL. That was hideously expensive for little gain. Kept a lot of Winderz guys in money to feed their kids, though. LOL.

Most of what people do with computers is just... dumb. But hey, it’s been fun building data centers to bring y’all piano playing cat videos! If that’s what people want, those of us who know how the things work are more than welcome to oblige. As long as the checks keep cashing.

PeeCee makers and Apple have the public convinced they’re part of something bigger. Marketing. “If you don’t use this bloatware we’ll laugh at you...” it’s awesome. Pays the bills VERY nicely too.

“Oh you will be needing this TurboEncabulator 2000 next year to type up documents and do data entry... and watch cat videos.”

I wouldn’t own an airplane or have a co-owner who could afford it either (he owns a computer store) if it weren’t for all these great excuses about how software is “too complex” to write efficiently.

As an old RTOS guy, I easily see through that silliness. In an RTOS you HAVE to decide what code runs first and whallops anything else running. In telecom it’s “line handling” first. In missile systems it’s flight control loops. In consumer OSs...

Oh, the piano playing cat can bring down the entire OS. Isn’t that just adorable? What a nice little playtime OS.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Delving into the stupidity of their design choices in this regard wasn't the point. The poor advice they give to customers to cover for their overly complex power-saving design, was. When most of the problems experienced are actually the battery itself failing due to improper charging and poor build quality of the cells themselves.

If the user is too dumb to close things they're not using, they're stuck making up silly things like that.

It's not about the user being "too dumb." It's about making things easier and better for the user.

I am plenty smart to know to close things, *ON DEVICES THAT REQUIRE IT*. That doesn't mean I always do it, because if it's not currently causing me a problem, I'd rather do something more productive.

As such, I *much* prefer Apple's way of handling it, where I don't even have to think about power and resource management, because it does a better job than I ever could. Nate, you're trying to outsmart something for no reason. Do you pump the brake pedal on cars with anti-lock brakes like my mom does, too?

I'm fully aware of all of that garbage above. It's garbage trying to cover up two problems... the devices need to physically be bigger for the battery life needed, and the users need to be less stupid.

Why do the devices need to be physically bigger, if they're smart enough to use their batteries in an efficient manner? I don't want my device to be physically bigger. And if I don't screw with it and let the system work for me the way it was intended, my battery life is just fine, thankyouverymuch.

As far the download thing... Saw it coming in the announcement. Glad they caught up to Garmin. Already done there a couple versions ago, looks like.

I did get a laugh at that, because today I opened up Garmin Pilot for my once-monthly launch to ensure I've got the databases ready to load into the GTN for my next trip, and their "what's new" list was all stuff that ForeFlight did over a year ago. Glad they're both competing, it helps us all.

I’ve also got a lifetime of watching computer users under my belt doing a whole bunch of things on computers that don’t really require a computer, even when the task is made more difficult by the computer.

That particular perspective is slowly disappearing, since many have now grown up where computers are simply part of the landscape and they wouldn’t even have the frame of reference to know how it was done without them.

Again, you're reminding me of stuff my mom used to say. "Why would I want to balance my checkbook on my computer, when it takes so much longer to enter the stuff in than I can just balance it by hand?" Well, because you're not just balancing a checkbook any more. You're comparing your performance vs. budget, collecting data to assist in creating your next budget, forecasting whether you're going to have any trouble in the next month, etc. Sure, you can balance your checkbook faster by hand. But, you can't get all that additional value of it anywhere near as fast as you can on a computer.

Put another way: It's not about doing the same thing faster or slower. It's about doing the same things, plus 100x more things that we couldn't do in anything resembling a reasonable timeframe before computers.

To use the example from above, @flyingcheesehead said someone would be “laughed at” if they did word processing on an old Apple and printed it on an ImageWriter today... which says a lot more about the marketing than whether their peers would actually read the document or judge it on measurable merits, if you really think about it.

I'm probably not going to judge anything on its merits when I have to read crappy old dot-matrix text. A laser printer generates output that is vastly more readable, and thus can be consumed easier. And someone who's generating worthwhile content knows enough to present it in a fashion that meets or exceeds current standards for the publishing of that type of content.

I know of at least one famous book author who writes them all with a legal pad and a pencil. His job is writing. He lets someone else type the silly thing into whatever machine du jour the publisher wants it in. He’s been publishing books now since the IBM Selectric days.

And he's smart enough to get someone to publish it in the current standard, rather than mimeographing his legal pad, so that his content gets taken seriously and he doesn't waste his time creating it only to have it disregarded.

Oh, the piano playing cat can bring down the entire OS. Isn’t that just adorable? What a nice little playtime OS.

And that's why we don't bother with a RTOS on a PC.

 

[dell30rb]

I just want to talk about foreflight 10 and things got way too nerdy in here

 

[denverpilot]

It's not about the user being "too dumb." It's about making things easier and better for the user.

I am plenty smart to know to close things, *ON DEVICES THAT REQUIRE IT*. That doesn't mean I always do it, because if it's not currently causing me a problem, I'd rather do something more productive.

Like watch piano cats? LOL...

You seem to think *I* was the user admonished by Apple for closing down things, and told without a shadow of a doubt that was the reason by battery died. LOL... that was @gkainz.

I just agreed that there's been plenty of times I've found *hitty apps written in "aggressive" style, happily pounding the hardware and the OS from behind doing lord knows what, while in the "background" and killing them when they do that. (@AKiss20 admitted those exist, so I'm just using his wording.)

As such, I *much* prefer Apple's way of handling it, where I don't even have to think about power and resource management, because it does a better job than I ever could. Nate, you're trying to outsmart something for no reason. Do you pump the brake pedal on cars with anti-lock brakes like my mom does, too?

As usual your insinuation that I am doing something wrong, and also that I'm an idiot, doesn't suit you, Kent... but you always fall back to it when it comes to defending your precious Apple... ripping on your mom to prove a point, is kinda low, even for you, though.

And we all know what happens when people are sold something that allows them not to think.

Why do the devices need to be physically bigger, if they're smart enough to use their batteries in an efficient manner? I don't want my device to be physically bigger. And if I don't screw with it and let the system work for me the way it was intended, my battery life is just fine, thankyouverymuch.

Glad it works for you. The comment was based on past experience with phones that would happily go most of a week without a re-charge... and knowing what a modern screen and CPU draw, amperage-wise.

Remember again, this little side-portion of the thread is about an Apple employee telling @gkainz that he did something wrong which then magically caused the product to kill its own battery... LOL... hmm... you'd think maybe the OS just would ignore him and leave everything always running then.

Why even give him the option to kill anything? Save him from himself and remove the feature if it's causing physical harm to the battery... duh... or perhaps... just perhaps... it's just a line of BS from a desperate support manager who needed something that sounded good to tell customers who wouldn't know an amp from a volt? LOL...

He shouldn't have to think, of course. Or notice the app is at the top of the power consumption list... gosh, why would there even be such a list if background apps are held under control by all the brilliant OS coders, anyway? It certainly shouldn't be possible that "aggressive" apps could ever bother the mighty iOS. It was written by pure geniuses who have unicorn rainbows flying out of their butts, as they handle such incredible "complexity" that no mere mortal can POSSIBLY understand it... or so I read, above... ROFLMAO.

I did get a laugh at that, because today I opened up Garmin Pilot for my once-monthly launch to ensure I've got the databases ready to load into the GTN for my next trip, and their "what's new" list was all stuff that ForeFlight did over a year ago. Glad they're both competing, it helps us all.

Yup... they're neck and neck these days, and if I only could pay for one, the nod would have to go to Garmin, since Concierge is way more useful than the stuff slowing down the iPad in Foreflight that can't be turned off, or coded more efficiently. Think Foreflight will come up with a way to update my Garmin GTX?

Again, you're reminding me of stuff my mom used to say. "Why would I want to balance my checkbook on my computer, when it takes so much longer to enter the stuff in than I can just balance it by hand?" Well, because you're not just balancing a checkbook any more. You're comparing your performance vs. budget, collecting data to assist in creating your next budget, forecasting whether you're going to have any trouble in the next month, etc. Sure, you can balance your checkbook faster by hand. But, you can't get all that additional value of it anywhere near as fast as you can on a computer.

Put another way: It's not about doing the same thing faster or slower. It's about doing the same things, plus 100x more things that we couldn't do in anything resembling a reasonable timeframe before computers.

You're really into ripping on your mom today... LOL... mean man, really mean...

But here's a real question about that... is mom ACTUALLY doing all that other stuff yet with her computer? I doubt it. With numerous sources saying 80% or so of Americans don't even operate from a written budget, color me skeptical that your mom, or very many other people, are doing any of that with their computers. (And yes, I know YOU are... hahaha... that's what YOU do with computers. I know... we've met...)

( Psst... side-note... I bet mom does the budgeting BEFORE the money is spent out of the checkbook... just a guess here, but that's usually how one does a "budget". )

I'm probably not going to judge anything on its merits when I have to read crappy old dot-matrix text. A laser printer generates output that is vastly more readable, and thus can be consumed easier. And someone who's generating worthwhile content knows enough to present it in a fashion that meets or exceeds current standards for the publishing of that type of content.

Shallow. Very shallow. EXTREMELY shallow, really. I can't stand the PoA web interface, but it doesn't change my mind about the people who post here, or make me think they're dumber for it.

(Web interfaces in general are awful.)

And he's smart enough to get someone to publish it in the current standard, rather than mimeographing his legal pad, so that his content gets taken seriously and he doesn't waste his time creating it only to have it disregarded.

He actually complains that he has to pay someone to do that instead of his publisher taking care of it, although that complaint was in an interview a number of years ago and was probably made in public as a shot over the bow to tell his publisher to pick up the tab on it, since any other publisher would happily pick him up. Bet it was around contract re-negotiation time, too. LOL.

And that's why we don't bother with a RTOS on a PC.

"Bother"? Choosing which processes need to run over processes that can just be killed? Not really that hard to do for all these "brilliant" software devs who claim they're "buried in complexity" that "no one can possibly understand"... LOL... you do see the irony and BS dripping from that, don't you? "It's so complex we have to write brilliant code to manage your battery for you, instead of just telling you to turn the lightbulbs off when you're not using them... but wait... we can't possibly just code that into the OS itself and tell it to kill unnecessary stuff... hey, let's just have the support staff tell everybody they're doing it wrong!"

Total bunk... so much of it they can't keep track of which story is the accurate one. Plus the reality was the batteries themselves were manufactured wrong... but that's not the story you'll read from Apple... you'll just get admonished by the support staff (who buys this crap from THEIR bosses, hook line and sinker) about "doing it wrong" when the company is replacing batteries at cost in hundreds of thousands of devices... (they'll at least do that, but they'll never admit the batteries were crap.)

Remember this is the corporate culture at Apple... "You're holding it wrong..." is still considered a reasonable answer to putting the freaking antenna under a piece of metal under your palm... hahaha... anybody with any brain cells who understood anything about RF found that whopper, amusing.

Anyway... stop picking on your mom. Mine doesn't read product manuals either, and I'm sure her car came with one that clearly said not to pump the brakes... her Apple didn't come with a similar manual saying not to close things down... that right there is evidence and a nice big whiff of BS... because if it DID come with that in the manual, these brilliant "software engineers" should have simply taken away the feature... or... taken away the app's ability to be bad players... either way... they own the OS...

Telling a "backgrounded" app to kiss the OSs butt on resource use is even easier than using an RTOS... and using an RTOS isn't all that difficult. You ALLOWED the "backgrounding" in the first place! LOL...

"Your application has been rejected from the App Store, because it attempts to place itself higher in priority in our RTOS than the Ring 0 level of the operating system... please go jump off a cliff and kill yourselves as programmers, we already told you we wouldn't allow that, but you apparently can't read, you brilliant developers you... wait, we mean, you're awesome and we want you to come pay so we can see your awesomeness at the next pay-to-attend rah-rah session we call the Apple Developer Conference you brainiacs, you! Oh and please send in your payment to get the latest Beta... your credit card didn't go through."

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Like watch piano cats? LOL...

If that's what my mission for the day was, yes, I would rather do that than have to monitor background processes on my phone myself.

As usual your insinuation that I am doing something wrong, and also that I'm an idiot, doesn't suit you, Kent... but you always fall back to it when it comes to defending your precious Apple... ripping on your mom to prove a point, is kinda low, even for you, though.

I never said you were an idiot. I said it sounded like you were trying to outsmart something that didn't need to be dealt with. And even if it wasn't actually you, it sounded like you were defending that technique.

Glad it works for you. The comment was based on past experience with phones that would happily go most of a week without a re-charge... and knowing what a modern screen and CPU draw, amperage-wise.

A week?!? I have *never* had a phone that would go a week. In fact, I have never had a phone that would go two full days. And I'm counting every dumb phone I've had since 1997 in that, too. (Remember PrimeCo? That was my second one...) Motorola, Nokia, Sony Ericsson, etc... And, yes, Apple.

Remember again, this little side-portion of the thread is about an Apple employee telling @gkainz that he did something wrong which then magically caused the product to kill its own battery... LOL... hmm... you'd think maybe the OS just would ignore him and leave everything always running then.

And then you'd ***** that they didn't let you kill stuff.

Why even give him the option to kill anything? Save him from himself and remove the feature if it's causing physical harm to the battery... duh... or perhaps... just perhaps... it's just a line of BS from a desperate support manager who needed something that sounded good to tell customers who wouldn't know an amp from a volt? LOL...

Not a line of crap. Perfectly plausible. Killing apps does mean that when you open them up again it takes more CPU and thus more battery to do so, causing you to use more of the battery (ie get it closer to empty) and maybe have to put more cycles on it. Being close to full or close to empty is bad for Lithium batteries. This ain't rocket surgery.

Yup... they're neck and neck these days, and if I only could pay for one, the nod would have to go to Garmin, since Concierge is way more useful than the stuff slowing down the iPad in Foreflight that can't be turned off, or coded more efficiently. Think Foreflight will come up with a way to update my Garmin GTX?

Think Garmin will give up the API for the one thing that gets 90% of their users to buy that product?

You're really into ripping on your mom today... LOL... mean man, really mean...

Funny thing is, she's actually reasonably tech-savvy these days. After swearing she'd never need a computer in the 80's and early 90's, now she has a laptop, a tablet, a smartphone, and even an Apple Watch! In fact, she was the first one to buy an Apple Watch in the family, and we ripped her ruthlessly for it. I'll have to find the screen shots I took from that text thread, it was hilarious.

But here's a real question about that... is mom ACTUALLY doing all that other stuff yet with her computer? I doubt it. With numerous sources saying 80% or so of Americans don't even operate from a written budget, color me skeptical that your mom, or very many other people, are doing any of that with their computers. (And yes, I know YOU are... hahaha... that's what YOU do with computers. I know... we've met...)

Honestly, I have no clue. I didn't even really care whether she got a computer for herself or not. I wanted her to get a computer for ME.

( Psst... side-note... I bet mom does the budgeting BEFORE the money is spent out of the checkbook... just a guess here, but that's usually how one does a "budget". )

Performance vs. budget can't happen until you compare what you've spent... And yes, looking at what you've spent and how you might want to change that in the future is an important component of budgeting.

Shallow. Very shallow. EXTREMELY shallow, really. I can't stand the PoA web interface, but it doesn't change my mind about the people who post here, or make me think they're dumber for it.

Maybe so, but humans are naturally shallow. My friend Alan Baer is the tuba player for the New York Philharmonic, thus arguably one of the best tuba players in the world. What do you think people would think of him if he showed up for a concert in jeans and a t-shirt instead of a tux?

Heck, you don't have to answer that. Look up "Joshua Bell subway". When he wore casual clothes and played in the subway, it didn't matter that he was one of the best violin players in the world, playing on a Stradivarius worth several million dollars. He walked away with $32.17 after playing for 45 minutes.

So yes, appearance does matter. Apple knows that, which is a large part of their success as well.

"Bother"? Choosing which processes need to run over processes that can just be killed? Not really that hard to do for all these "brilliant" software devs who claim they're "buried in complexity" that "no one can possibly understand"... LOL... you do see the irony and BS dripping from that, don't you? "It's so complex we have to write brilliant code to manage your battery for you, instead of just telling you to turn the lightbulbs off when you're not using them... but wait... we can't possibly just code that into the OS itself and tell it to kill unnecessary stuff... hey, let's just have the support staff tell everybody they're doing it wrong!"

Uh, the phone can do a much better job of deciding that - Including killing apps and even parts of apps - than I can, especially since the screen would have to be on for me to do it manually and that's one of the most power-hungry parts of the gadget. And it does kill unnecessary stuff. It still appears you don't understand how it works, so I'm done arguing with you about it.

 

[denverpilot]

It still appears you don't understand how it works, so I'm done arguing with you about it.

Again with the unfounded insults. You always go back to that. I understand it just fine. You’re defending complexity for complexity’s sake, which is fine... and even expected these days... but not really necessary if the coders are as good as they claim to be.

They’re usually not. But they’re sure as hell not going to admit that. Haha.

Not without me handing them the logs and showing them where they screwed up, anyway. LOL. It’s what I do.

Probably best you’re done anyway, this thread is about whether ForeFlight is bloatware not iOS. We all already know iOS is bloatware.

Can we turn off these features that burn CPU in ForeFlight if we’d like to continue to have the old performance we once did minus Apple bloat?

What if I don’t need airspace on my plan view? Is there an off switch?

If not will the “brilliant developer” handling all of this “complexity” stop by and figure out how to hand me cash for the iPad upgrade he just forced on me?

Oh I forgot. He knows what I need better than I do. Oopsies.

RTOS is a very good world to get into for anyone sick of the merry go round of consumer grade PlaySkool coding. Seriously. Embedded RTOS in a high revenue industry is even better.

I should be clear that by RTOS I mean a pre-emptive RTOS and not the loser RTOS systems that just track clock ticks. (Peering over my glasses at the various Linux kernel RTOS implementations...)

Watching the OS kill off someone’s badly behaved new feature is beyond fun on a Production system.

Just think if Apple summarily killed Facebook’s app every time it misbehaved. Talk about a time and battery saver for millions.

So. ForeFlight. The original topic. Not Apple’s battery fiascos.

Bloatware or no? Upgrade or not? Going to run as good on old hardware as the last version?

Kill switches accessible to the user for features not needed or wanted?

I could very much live just fine without a number of the newer features that have slowed it down considerably. I did buy it when all it was barely a moving map, after all.

By the way, I get a kick out of it telling me the “ASOS” for KAPA is the ATIS frequency. We do have both. I suspect it doesn’t handle seeing two in the database properly.

It’s been doing that since the feature came out. Mostly it’s just a chuckle thing.

“Oh, ForeFlight. That’s the ATIS frequency. And the ASOS exists and is a completely different frequency. But that’s an adorable bug you have there...”

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Again with the unfounded insults. You always go back to that. I understand it just fine. You’re defending complexity for complexity’s sake, which is fine... and even expected these days... but not really necessary if the coders are as good as they claim to be.

I'm not insulting you, Nate. I'm merely stating that you should take the time to understand how a system works, before you say it works in a stupid way.

Can we turn off these features that burn CPU in ForeFlight if we’d like to continue to have the old performance we once did minus Apple bloat?

What if I don’t need airspace on my plan view? Is there an off switch?

There are many features with on/off switches, yes.

Just think if Apple summarily killed Facebook’s app every time it misbehaved. Talk about a time and battery saver for millions.

All in favor, say aye! (aye.)

So. ForeFlight. The original topic. Not Apple’s battery fiascos.

Bloatware or no? Upgrade or not? Going to run as good on old hardware as the last version?

Not bloatware. They continue to add *useful* new features, and they continue to not implement a lot of less-than-useful feature suggestions. But, we don't all fly the same and they're trying to handle the entire market, just like everyone else, so there's bound to be some features you don't want or need.

Kill switches accessible to the user for features not needed or wanted?

Here's a list of features that have a kill switch in ForeFlight 10.0:

TAF translations
Extended Centerlines
Distance Rings
Track Vector
Route Labels
Cockpit Sharing
Auto-recieve panel flight plans
Distant Traffic
SAR features
Automatic Downloads
Pack auto-check
Track Log auto-start/stop
Track Log control on map
ForeFlight briefing
Fuel Orders
Translate Legacy Briefings
Auto Show Taxi Diagram
Auto Show Taxi on Map
Spoken alerts (and individual switches for: 500 AGL, cabin altitude, runway proximity, sink rate, traffic, device disconnect, destination weather, TFR, DC SFRA/FRZ)
Device Autosleep Disable
Clock Check
Ownship
Sync User Data
Diagnostic Logs
Terrain
Glide Advisor

And, of course, there's other features that you can simply choose to not use - If they don't run on their own, they don't need a kill switch.

Hopefully that's enough that it'll run on your Apple ][.

 

[nj-pilot]

I REALLY wish Foreflight would move away from iPads.

Or at least support another OS ... this is the only thing keeping me on Apple

 

[exncsurfer]

Like watch piano cats? LOL...

You seem to think *I* was the user admonished by Apple for closing down things, and told without a shadow of a doubt that was the reason by battery died. LOL... that was @gkainz.

I just agreed that there's been plenty of times I've found *hitty apps written in "aggressive" style, happily pounding the hardware and the OS from behind doing lord knows what, while in the "background" and killing them when they do that. (@AKiss20 admitted those exist, so I'm just using his wording.)



As usual your insinuation that I am doing something wrong, and also that I'm an idiot, doesn't suit you, Kent... but you always fall back to it when it comes to defending your precious Apple... ripping on your mom to prove a point, is kinda low, even for you, though.

And we all know what happens when people are sold something that allows them not to think.



Glad it works for you. The comment was based on past experience with phones that would happily go most of a week without a re-charge... and knowing what a modern screen and CPU draw, amperage-wise.

Remember again, this little side-portion of the thread is about an Apple employee telling @gkainz that he did something wrong which then magically caused the product to kill its own battery... LOL... hmm... you'd think maybe the OS just would ignore him and leave everything always running then.

Why even give him the option to kill anything? Save him from himself and remove the feature if it's causing physical harm to the battery... duh... or perhaps... just perhaps... it's just a line of BS from a desperate support manager who needed something that sounded good to tell customers who wouldn't know an amp from a volt? LOL...

He shouldn't have to think, of course. Or notice the app is at the top of the power consumption list... gosh, why would there even be such a list if background apps are held under control by all the brilliant OS coders, anyway? It certainly shouldn't be possible that "aggressive" apps could ever bother the mighty iOS. It was written by pure geniuses who have unicorn rainbows flying out of their butts, as they handle such incredible "complexity" that no mere mortal can POSSIBLY understand it... or so I read, above... ROFLMAO.



Yup... they're neck and neck these days, and if I only could pay for one, the nod would have to go to Garmin, since Concierge is way more useful than the stuff slowing down the iPad in Foreflight that can't be turned off, or coded more efficiently. Think Foreflight will come up with a way to update my Garmin GTX?



You're really into ripping on your mom today... LOL... mean man, really mean...

But here's a real question about that... is mom ACTUALLY doing all that other stuff yet with her computer? I doubt it. With numerous sources saying 80% or so of Americans don't even operate from a written budget, color me skeptical that your mom, or very many other people, are doing any of that with their computers. (And yes, I know YOU are... hahaha... that's what YOU do with computers. I know... we've met...)

( Psst... side-note... I bet mom does the budgeting BEFORE the money is spent out of the checkbook... just a guess here, but that's usually how one does a "budget". )



Shallow. Very shallow. EXTREMELY shallow, really. I can't stand the PoA web interface, but it doesn't change my mind about the people who post here, or make me think they're dumber for it.

(Web interfaces in general are awful.)



He actually complains that he has to pay someone to do that instead of his publisher taking care of it, although that complaint was in an interview a number of years ago and was probably made in public as a shot over the bow to tell his publisher to pick up the tab on it, since any other publisher would happily pick him up. Bet it was around contract re-negotiation time, too. LOL.



"Bother"? Choosing which processes need to run over processes that can just be killed? Not really that hard to do for all these "brilliant" software devs who claim they're "buried in complexity" that "no one can possibly understand"... LOL... you do see the irony and BS dripping from that, don't you? "It's so complex we have to write brilliant code to manage your battery for you, instead of just telling you to turn the lightbulbs off when you're not using them... but wait... we can't possibly just code that into the OS itself and tell it to kill unnecessary stuff... hey, let's just have the support staff tell everybody they're doing it wrong!"

Total bunk... so much of it they can't keep track of which story is the accurate one. Plus the reality was the batteries themselves were manufactured wrong... but that's not the story you'll read from Apple... you'll just get admonished by the support staff (who buys this crap from THEIR bosses, hook line and sinker) about "doing it wrong" when the company is replacing batteries at cost in hundreds of thousands of devices... (they'll at least do that, but they'll never admit the batteries were crap.)

Remember this is the corporate culture at Apple... "You're holding it wrong..." is still considered a reasonable answer to putting the freaking antenna under a piece of metal under your palm... hahaha... anybody with any brain cells who understood anything about RF found that whopper, amusing.

Anyway... stop picking on your mom. Mine doesn't read product manuals either, and I'm sure her car came with one that clearly said not to pump the brakes... her Apple didn't come with a similar manual saying not to close things down... that right there is evidence and a nice big whiff of BS... because if it DID come with that in the manual, these brilliant "software engineers" should have simply taken away the feature... or... taken away the app's ability to be bad players... either way... they own the OS...

Telling a "backgrounded" app to kiss the OSs butt on resource use is even easier than using an RTOS... and using an RTOS isn't all that difficult. You ALLOWED the "backgrounding" in the first place! LOL...

"Your application has been rejected from the App Store, because it attempts to place itself higher in priority in our RTOS than the Ring 0 level of the operating system... please go jump off a cliff and kill yourselves as programmers, we already told you we wouldn't allow that, but you apparently can't read, you brilliant developers you... wait, we mean, you're awesome and we want you to come pay so we can see your awesomeness at the next pay-to-attend rah-rah session we call the Apple Developer Conference you brainiacs, you! Oh and please send in your payment to get the latest Beta... your credit card didn't go through."

You guys officially broke my eyeballs, had to give up a few posts back.

 

[denverpilot]

You guys officially broke my eyeballs, had to give up a few posts back.

Happens on a text discussion forum. You’ll get used to it.

The tl;dr version is that both Apple and ForeFlight are going to keep bloating software and your iPad will have to be upgraded.

Fans will cheer and spend more money.

 

[Dave Theisen]

I’ve got a five year old iPad Air running ForeFlight that still does everything I need it to do. Maybe there’s better products out there, but it’s worked for me so far.

 

[denverpilot]

I'm not insulting you, Nate. I'm merely stating that you should take the time to understand how a system works, before you say it works in a stupid way.

Again you insinuate that I don’t know how it works. Know exactly how it works. And it is stupid.

Customers who’ll accept it and fairy tale stories about their batteries dying because of something the OS allows, aren’t particularly bright.

Especially after they throttled the performance of the whole OS trying to save/hide the bad batteries they used, before giving up and replacing all of them at cost.

They knew those batteries were bad far enough in advance to try to hide it until users were beyond the warranty and AppleCare timeframes by making a major OS power management change.

Is this the “complexity” of which these brilliant genius coders speak? Trying to hide bad hardware probably does get pretty complex, I suppose.

Might have to take a couple of developers off of the “new emoji” team to handle it. LOL. Nah, it’s not bloatware.

Everyone needed the poop emoji to adequately describe the way Apple tried to hide an entire product line outfitted with bad batteries. So I guess I can see how “complex” that would get.

Their coders did it so well, they got caught. Sheer brilliance, I say. Bravo. Hahahah. They got CAUGHT. And they didn’t do the right thing by their customers until they were.

Jobs may have stretched the truth a bit with his “You’re holding it wrong” garbage, but he wouldn’t have approved an OS level change to try to hide bad hardware. That’s a sea change of epic proportions at Apple and can only be a mirror of those at the top now.

You don’t try to hide a bad hardware release with software to lower performance of your product. ROFLMAO. You certainly don’t blame the problems the OS creates for the battery on the customer when they arrive for assistance with it.

That’s just awful behavior. Truly awful. Especially from one of the richest companies on the planet. Complete loss of customer focus culture-wise, there. Even went toward catering to their own self-interests.

Were people scared to tell Cook his precious global supply chain utterly failed the customers and that he’d have to pay for it out of his bonuses? LOL.

@gkainz it’s all your fault you used the thing in a way they allowed and didn’t warn you about. You naughty customer you! And it’s definitely your fault the defective battery then died. ROFLMAO.

 

[CMongoose]

I just want to talk about foreflight 10 and things got way too nerdy in here

Well my iPad is downloading it at the moment, curious to take a look.

Oddly the release note on the Apple store version history is “Bug Fixes”

 

[midlifeflyer]

Thank you! I try my best to bring some rationality and fact to the religious war that seems to be Apple vs Android or Apple vs Microsoft (although I will admit to cursing Windows on more than one occasion, typically when I am forced to support it ). I do not see why so many people need to wrap their identity into which products they buy or put down others for having different needs or priorities.

Windows desktop. iPad. Android phone. I guess I'm agnostic.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Well my iPad is downloading it at the moment, curious to take a look.

Oddly the release note on the Apple store version history is “Bug Fixes”

Almost as though they don't want you to notice they opened up AHRS and ADS-B compatibility to devices running the GDL 90 spec. As of a few days ago, that includes Stratux with AHRS.

 

[CMongoose]

Almost as though they don't want you to notice they opened up AHRS and ADS-B compatibility to devices running the GDL 90 spec. As of a few days ago, that includes Stratux with AHRS.

Hmm. Yes because if I had noticed that I would be really annoyed by my $800 purchase of a 2S three months ago. . Annoyingly I have had a stratux since the early days of the project and only bought the 2S for ForeFlight AHRS.

It will be interesting to see what Stratus does now. When I asked if they were planning to support other devices, they told me no because it is currently a full time job keeping up with ForeFlight changes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[EppyGA]

Hmm. Yes because if I had noticed that I would be really annoyed by my $800 purchase of a 2S three months ago. . Annoyingly I have had a stratux since the early days of the project and only bought the 2S for ForeFlight AHRS.

It will be interesting to see what Stratus does now. When I asked if they were planning to support other devices, they told me no because it is currently a full time job keeping up with ForeFlight changes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Stratux had a build three months or so ago that would run on ForeFlight.

 

[CMongoose]

Stratux had a build three months or so ago that would run on ForeFlight.

Doh!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[midlifeflyer]

Stratux had a build three months or so ago that would run on ForeFlight.

Stratus has always run on ForeFlight. It was designed to. But AHRS was different. Stratux had a separate wonky "Dangerzone" build available to be able to use AHRS with ForeFlight, but that was hit-or-miss. The current standard Stratux build, released 6 days ago, was designed to take advantage of ForeFlight 10's more open architecture.

 

[gkainz]

wow, guys! yep, my fault. Honestly, the only time I kill apps is when 1) I didn't meant to open that one, rarely do, and one of these days intend to remove it, or 2) things have bogged down badly and other things aren't performing well or correctly.
but seriously, can't I just make a phone call? You know, like my old Motorola StarTac did so well back in the day?

 

[AKiss20]

Windows desktop. iPad. Android phone. I guess I'm agnostic.

If it works for you that's all that matters.

 

[exncsurfer]

Happens on a text discussion forum. You’ll get used to it.

The tl;dr version is that both Apple and ForeFlight are going to keep bloating software and your iPad will have to be upgraded.

Fans will cheer and spend more money.

Cool, i'm hoping I will never own an ipad. I guess its the 5th grader in me but I still think thats a lame name for a tablet, ipad (hehe, he said ipad)