Flight Sharing Apps Might Be Back

Lol just read that article. The author sounded like they had just about zero knowledge of the subject. They brought up 90-currency for pax carrying and some random $225/hr flight cost rate cited from AOPA. I don’t think there’s a snowballs chance in hell anything gets changed about “holding out” and Uber for pilots.


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Good to see that the same myths are being propagated...that profit is what defines a commercial operator, and pilots can't cost share via the Internet.

If these people don't start having original thoughts, they won't get very far.
 
I also thought the assertion that private pilots are currently using an "analog bulletin board" to post that they are going to a certain destination in hopes of picking up a paying passenger to defray flight costs. That's basically the definition of "holding out" and venturing into common carriage.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I also thought the assertion that private pilots are currently using an "analog bulletin board" to post that they are going to a certain destination in hopes of picking up a paying passenger to defray flight costs. That's basically the definition of "holding out" and venturing into common carriage.
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As always, it's not about where you post it, but how you post it.
 
MauleSkinner said:
As always, it's not about where you post it, but how you post it.
Click to expand...

True, but I'd imagine that posting it on the bulletin board at an local airport is probably as likely to get another pilot as a cost-sharing passenger as it would a non-pilot.

You could probably just post "going flying this weekend, call if you want to share costs" with no destination or time specified. However, that still doesn't allow a Private Pilot to operate like an Uber and make profit on the deal.
 
W
SoonerAviator said:
True, but I'd imagine that posting it on the bulletin board at an local airport is probably as likely to get another pilot as a cost-sharing passenger as it would a non-pilot.

You could probably just post "going flying this weekend, call if you want to share costs" with no destination or time specified. However, that still doesn't allow a Private Pilot to operate like an Uber and make profit on the deal.
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Whether the cost sharing passenger is a pilot or not doesn't enter into the equation either.
 
MauleSkinner said:
W

Whether the cost sharing passenger is a pilot or not doesn't enter into the equation either.
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I’m not saying it “enters into the equation” of whether it’s holding out/cost sharing. I was indicating that posting on local airport bulletin boards is likely to have a small audience made up mostly aviators. Flight sharing apps are casting a much wider net, which is likely where it’s much more likely to draw the ire of FAA regulators. Going into services like Uber is where it becomes less “flight sharing” and into for-profit.


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I don't think it matters. I suspect that both the supply and demand for ride sharing in light airplanes is minuscule.
 
FormerHangie said:
I don't think it matters. I suspect that both the supply and demand for ride sharing in light airplanes is minuscule.
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Agreed. I'm sure the market for an Uber-like flying app would be squelched when people realized that any moderate distance was going to cost more than the airlines could do it for.
 
SoonerAviator said:
True, but I'd imagine that posting it on the bulletin board at an local airport is probably as likely to get another pilot as a cost-sharing passenger as it would a non-pilot.

You could probably just post "going flying this weekend, call if you want to share costs" with no destination or time specified. However, that still doesn't allow a Private Pilot to operate like an Uber and make profit on the deal.
Click to expand...

Posting on a bulletin board is specifically mentioned in the rulings by the Office of the General Counsel on the subject of holding out.

Bob
 
MauleSkinner said:
W

Whether the cost sharing passenger is a pilot or not doesn't enter into the equation either.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's actually true. If you step back just a bit, what the FAA really cares about, from a public policy standpoint, is the unsuspecting general public getting into a 172 with Bob C. Pilot thinking it's just as safe as a 121 or 135 operator. While the regs don't explicitly make any distinction, I think you'd find that the FAA doesn't care much about bulletin board postings at small airport or even posting on pilot forums like this. Sure, it may violate the letter of the law still, but it's not going to garner any enforcement resources. When you start inviting the general public to pay you to go along, things change.
 
bobmrg said:
Posting on a bulletin board is specifically mentioned in the rulings by the Office of the General Counsel on the subject of holding out.

Bob
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I understand that, but I wasn't aware if it still qualifies as holding out if there is no destination or specific time listed. It's one thing to say I'm going to Denver @ noon on Saturday, but it might be another if you just said you were going flying and wanted to know if someone else wanted to go along for pro-rata. Pilots seem to do time-building with those agreements frequently. I'm sure verbiage can be altered to appear innocuous. Either way, the linked article doesn't seem to get that the FAA isn't likely to allow any short of public ride-sharing app or Uber-flight service to exist for non-Commercial rated pilots. Even less so with aircraft not on a 121/135 cert.
 
bradg33 said:
I don't think that's actually true. If you step back just a bit, what the FAA really cares about, from a public policy standpoint, is the unsuspecting general public getting into a 172 with Bob C. Pilot thinking it's just as safe as a 121 or 135 operator. While the regs don't explicitly make any distinction, I think you'd find that the FAA doesn't care much about bulletin board postings at small airport or even posting on pilot forums like this. Sure, it may violate the letter of the law still, but it's not going to garner any enforcement resources. When you start inviting the general public to pay you to go along, things change.
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I agree 100%...but my point is that the "letter of the law" doesn't make a distinction for pilot passengers. Just like the "letter of the law" doesn't prohibit using the Internet to organize a cost sharing flight.

Unfortunately, the arguments presented in the lawsuit and the bent of the article seem to me to be trying to force the FAA to allow things that aren't currently prohibited by the letter of the law.
 
Reading up on Wingly which is the UK version of the app that Senator Lee hopes to allow. They claim to have 10,000 pilots, 50,000 flights,150,000 users, and 3000 destinations. But is is much more than a simple app that connects people, the passenger must pay the app and the pilot is reimbursed from Wingly--makes me wonder if they are charging a broker's fee like AirBnB.

this also caught my eye in the "Passenger 10 Commandments"

9. Aboard, a cigarette you shall not light
You should be aware that all flights on Wingly are non smoking flights.

Says who? Have those poor sheep gotten to the point where they are not allowed to light up in their own plane?
 
SoonerAviator said:
I also thought the assertion that private pilots are currently using an "analog bulletin board" to post that they are going to a certain destination in hopes of picking up a paying passenger to defray flight costs. That's basically the definition of "holding out" and venturing into common carriage.
Click to expand...

bobmrg said:
Posting on a bulletin board is specifically mentioned in the rulings by the Office of the General Counsel on the subject of holding out.
Click to expand...

It is.

Will EAA be running their OSH ride share section of their forums again this year? ;) ;) ;)

(Ducking. Incoming!!!)
 
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