Tax those rich airplane owners...

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James331 said:
I live and own property (if it pleases the crown) here, upstate the great, the people, the country side, tons of rivers and lakes, good hard working folks, it's just the very oppressive and anti freedom government that sends people and especially business running away for places like Texas and other more American states, the sad part is much like a infectious disease, the people who have spent their lives here are carriers, and don't often realize exactly why their old home state was such a failure and go on to try to vote in the same type of government in their new adopted states.
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Ah that must be why TX leads NY in GDP per capita. Wait... it doesn't. [1]how about bachelor or advanced degrees? Nope NY again. [2] Same with poverty rates and quality of life. [3,4] NY is looking pretty good compared to TX, and I say that as someone from NJ who is legally obligated to hate New Yorkers...

1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita

2
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_educational_attainment

3
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate

4
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/quality-of-life
 
labbadabba said:
In Kansas, I feel like a pay just as much of my overall income in taxes and see very little of it in return for state services, which is why I say you get more bang for the buck as a resident of NY (at least for me being a NYC resident, can't speak for you upstaters) than you do in Kansas.
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Hmmmm...How long have you lived in New York? If you are an employee you have to pay City, State AND Federal taxes. I drove through the city just recently and visited my old neighborhood. The same potholes are there when I first rode over them 30 years ago.
 
From the Frederick County 2018 budget -
The Airport Authority is a regional authority supported by surrounding jurisdictions. The county is fiscal agent for the Airport Authority.
Miscellaneous revenue consists of fuel sales, hangar rentals, parking fees, cargo handling fees and land leases. Fuel sales for FY 2018 have been projected at $811,125 which makes up 60% of this revenue item and hangar and office rentals, projected at $410,380, makes up 30%. Because of reduced sales revenue, the locality shares have gone up significantly for both Frederick County and the City of Winchester. Supplements were needed from Frederick County and the City of Winchester for FY 2016 and FY 2017 due to shortfalls in other revenue, with FY 2018 budgeting an increase from the localities.

$135,000 to run the airport authority is coming from the general tax payer to pay for your hobby.
 
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AKiss20 said:
Ah that must be why TX leads NY in GDP per capita. Wait... it doesn't. [1]how about bachelor or advanced degrees? Nope NY again. [2] Same with poverty rates and quality of life. [3,4] NY is looking pretty good compared to TX, and I say that as someone from NJ who is legally obligated to hate New Yorkers...

1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita

2
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_educational_attainment

3
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate

4
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/quality-of-life
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Lolz, GROSS?
That doesn't even get you on the bus, grossing 500k a year isn't shabby as a person, unless you have 460k a year of red ink.

Here's a good and well thoughtout paper on the REAL economic condition of states, they list all their sources and how the rankings were complied.

fr2017-rank_list.jpg


https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings
 
Who sets the values? Assessing houses for property tax is relatively straight forward, comparables next door, etc. Even cars have Kelly blue book, etc. and there isn't that much variance between 2 2015 models of the same car with similar mileage for instance. Once cars are 20 years old they're all worth relatively the same.

But airplanes, yikes. A 1975 Warrior can probably range in value from $25k to about $100k if you went crazy with Aspen's and all the other avionics of the week. Engine time makes or breaks the price of a plane. Does the local taxing authority really have someone who can put a valuation on that stuff??
 
Todd82 said:
Who sets the values? Assessing houses for property tax is relatively straight forward, comparables next door, etc. Even cars have Kelly blue book, etc. and there isn't that much variance between 2 2015 models of the same car with similar mileage for instance. Once cars are 20 years old they're all worth relatively the same.

But airplanes, yikes. A 1975 Warrior can probably range in value from $25k to about $100k if you went crazy with Aspen's and all the other avionics of the week. Engine time makes or breaks the price of a plane. Does the local taxing authority really have someone who can put a valuation on that stuff??
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And there's the communist rub, what does it matter, and how's it's anyone's business, what YOUR boat, plane, house, etc cost.

Is a 120kt 2000lb 100LL burning plane that cost 60k a different strain on the NAS or runways compared to one that cost 200k?
 
James331 said:
And there's the communist rub, what does it matter, and how's it's anyone's business, what YOUR boat, plane, house, etc cost.

Is a 120kt 2000lb 100LL burning plane that cost 60k a different strain on the NAS or runways compared to one that cost 200k?
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More socialist than communist. I don't see anything in valuation-based property taxes that requires people to live in communes.
 
My 182 is registered to my LLC in Delaware, but hangared in Athens GA where my son lives. I got a bill last year for the first time and I think it was $1300!! It's a 77 182Q, so I think that's high, but his condo valued at $130,000 is $1800.00 per year for property tax!! I have decided it's just a high tax county!!
 
Palmpilot said:
More socialist than communist. I don't see anything in valuation-based property taxes that requires people to live in communes.
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Same difference, one leads to the other, socialism is like "just the tip" when it comes to communism.

And again why does it matter how much my private property cost, how does that change the services I'm using, if I'm burning 15gph, and landing with 2000lbs on the runways, talking to ATC, how does that change based on my aircrafts value?

I still don't understand how a 100k plane uses more ATC/NAS/airport services than a 30k plane.
 
James331 said:
Same difference, one leads to the other, socialism is like "just the tip" when it comes to communism.
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What examples can you cite of countries where that has actually happened?
 
Palmpilot said:
What examples can you cite of countries where that has actually happened?
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It's more marketing since both end up in the same place, and history shows it's not a happy place, just jealousy leading to trying to take other people stuff.

But I digress..

Like I said, PLEASE tell me how a six figure plane is more of a strain on the NAS/Airports when compared to a inexpensive plane, when both fly the same amount of hours, weigh the same, etc?


Adding the charges for use into the fuel makes sense (to a non abusive amount) but charging based on the value of my private property, when I don't get any more services compared to the guy with the 18k C150, that's not paying for what I use, that's redistributing wealth, that's socialism, that's theft.
 
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James331 said:
Like I said, PLEASE tell me how a six figure plane is more of a strain on the NAS/Airports when compared to a inexpensive plane, when both fly the the same amount of hours, weigh the same, etc?
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It doesn't. But do you just want to take the cost of running all of the airports in the country and divide it by the number of airplanes in the country and send you a bill for your portion? Cause I have a feeling you're not going to like that bill...
 
deonb said:
It doesn't. But do you just want to take the cost of running all of the airports in the country and divide it by the number of airplanes in the country and send you a bill for your portion? Cause I have a feeling you're not going to like that bill...
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No, we keep it the way it is, that said getting a yearly bill based off some morons opinion of what my plane is worth, the amount they make with that scheme isn't a make or break for the NAS, heck most of it doesn't even go to the NAS, it goes to crooked local and state types.

Like someone else said, there are potholes around here older than I am.
 
May depend on the state, but here in Georgia, the Property tax (meaning yearly) goes into the general fund. It's not paying for anything at the airport in my county, which BTW makes a profit. All the folks saying > $1,000 annually seem to be from Georgia, which I would not characterize as a "high tax" state.
 
Hang 4 said:
May depend on the state, but here in Georgia, the Property tax (meaning yearly) goes into the general fund. It's not paying for anything at the airport in my county,
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Exactly, doesn't do anything for aviation.

But a general fund controlled by people like this?



Just socialism, better known as theft. You're more likely to see a "return on investment" when a crackhead steals your power tools compared to getting shaken down every year for a percentage of your airplanes value.




Hang 4 said:
which BTW makes a profit.
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So they are over taxing/charging the public?
That's not good, why aren't they reducing hangar rent and fuel charges, tie downs, etc I mean it's a public airport right?
 
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James331 said:
Same difference, one leads to the other, socialism is like "just the tip" when it comes to communism.
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Palmpilot said:
What examples can you cite of countries where that has actually happened?
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I also disagree here. At least in communism you know who to go shoot.

In socialism you just have a mob that keeps oligarchs in power under the mistaken belief that the oligarchs can spend the fruits of your labor more wisely than you can, or just wants their little tiny percentage of “free stuff” from the oligarchy.
 
denverpilot said:
I also disagree here. At least in communism you know who to go shoot.

In socialism you just have a mob that keeps oligarchs in power under the mistaken belief that the oligarchs can spend the fruits of your labor more wisely than you can, or just wants their little tiny percentage of “free stuff” from the oligarchy.
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Socialism is much like fishing
First offer them something for free
Then hook em
Then eat them
 
deonb said:
It doesn't. But do you just want to take the cost of running all of the airports in the country and divide it by the number of airplanes in the country and send you a bill for your portion? Cause I have a feeling you're not going to like that bill...
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I thought we already paid that bill, it’s part of the price we pay for avgas?
 
teejayevans said:
I thought we already paid that bill, it’s part of the price we pay for avgas?
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The Aviation Trust Fund from fuel sales doesn’t even come close to paying the entire bill. The general public heavily subsidizes aviation at all levels but also then has an aviation infrastructure where they can feel safe climbing aboard the MonsterBusBoeing 3000, and paying $49 one-way all the way across the continent.
 
James331 said:
And there's the communist rub, what does it matter, and how's it's anyone's business, what YOUR boat, plane, house, etc cost.

Is a 120kt 2000lb 100LL burning plane that cost 60k a different strain on the NAS or runways compared to one that cost 200k?
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Considering the NAS is paid for by the airline ticket tax and the general tax revenues, I wound’t complain..
 
Clip4 said:
Out of a $14 billion collected from tickets taxes and other sources, the gasoline tax amounts to $15 million. Or about 1/10 of 1% of the FAA budget.
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Which is exactly what I said. Did you have a point to make about the comment or were you just documenting that you were wrong? :)
 
Many people here were able to discuss the subject without getting into spin zone type rants, but some were not.

Closed by vote of the MC.
 
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