How does this even happen??

As the needles approach 0, the pilot taps on the gauge to make sure he gets every drop of fuel. The farther he is from the runway, the harder he taps. Apparently you tapped too hard and got a "tilt"! ;)
 
wilkersk said:
As the needles approach 0, the pilot taps on the gauge to make sure he gets every drop of fuel. The farther he is from the runway, the harder he taps. Apparently you tapped too hard and got a "tilt"! ;)
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Heh. It's a leaseback and I wasn't flying my plane when it happened. I'll, uh, include "no tapping" instructions in the checklists?

More seriously, Cessna wants 3 AMU for a new gauge. No way I'm doing that. Instead, it's finally time for Cies senders and an Aerospace Logic gauge. (I was planning to do a full engine monitor, but that would put the plane down for 2-3 months. Even if I do the engine monitor, makes sense to throw in the gauge for now. 1 AMU for that. 1 AMU for the senders. Half and AMU for labor. Still less than 3 AMU for the just the Cessna part!)

But seriously? Has anyone ever seen a needle fall off? I just don't understand! What sort of crap is Cessna putting in its planes?

For reference, I've had a streak of really crappy luck in the past few months:
  • Roll servo decided it only wanted to turn one direction. 2 AMU
  • Clock decided to stop functioning. 1/2 AMU (Cause was a leaky AA battery. Most expensive AA battery ever.)
  • #1 Cylinder decided that compression was unneeded. 2.5 AMU
  • AI decided that being upright was overkill. 1 AMU
  • Left Slick mag took a crap (open coil) away from home, delighting the poor renter (or something). 3 AMU by the time everything was organized to fix that.
  • KX 155A NAVCOM display decided it worked best as a disco ball. EL display replaced with LED for nearly 2 AMU.
  • And now the fuel gauge thinks needles are okay to drop on the floor. Looks like 2.5 AMU.
All since November. What god did I displease?
 
Don’t know which god, but if u do find out let me know, I need to sacrifice something to please her.

Failed vacuum pump and a cracked pilot side window last weekend


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Might call Keystone and see if they can repair it. Worth a shot before dropping some AMU's.
 
Ever had this kind of experience with this leaseback or others? Maybe ultra renter abuse and the plane is asking for mercy....

Or a shoddy mechanic or renter swapping parts at midnight.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Ever had this kind of experience with this leaseback or others? Maybe ultra renter abuse and the plane is asking for mercy....

Or a shoddy mechanic or renter swapping parts at midnight.
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None of this appears to be anything the renters caused. Not sure how a renter could have caused the needle to fall off without also causing some other damage to face of it. And the other things...bad coil, can't be renter abuse. Leaky AA battery...my fault for not even knowing there was a battery on the back of the clock to replace (though my A&P should have probably said something). Bad cylinder? Hard to say, but nothing obvious pointing to abuse. Roll servo...hard for a renter to damage. KX 155A EL display? Known weak point in the design. Not sure how the renters would damage the AI, either, as the aircraft isn't being spun at all. (The SP is basically impossible to load into a Utility configuration, which Cessna requires for spin training.)

My first ownership experience, and so far it's been...annoying. Nothing too massive at once, but a steady stream of $500-$3000 things that add up to real money. I'm far from breaking even.
 
Sorry to hear.

You don’t have any overnight rentals from the same person who may be swapping out good parts for bad? Serial numbers should confirm that. I know, long shot, but that’s a lotta stuff to break all in the same timeframe. Maybe some of it is related (hard landing, electrical, vacuum, who knows...).

If it makes you feel any better, I find stuff to fix every other flight it seems; But I bought a 40 year old plane and don’t fly it as often as a rental gets flown. I’m working out the bugs (or so I hope). Maybe you are too.
 
That's the indication for running on fumes. Literally.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Sorry to hear.

You don’t have any overnight rentals from the same person who may be swapping out good parts for bad? Serial numbers should confirm that. I know, long shot, but that’s a lotta stuff to break all in the same timeframe. Maybe some of it is related (hard landing, electrical, vacuum, who knows...).

If it makes you feel any better, I find stuff to fix every other flight it seems; But I bought a 40 year old plane and don’t fly it as often as a rental gets flown. I’m working out the bugs (or so I hope). Maybe you are too.
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Seriously unlikely anyone is swapping parts. The plane flies a lot (when it's not down). There just wouldn't be much opportunity to do such a thing and not be noticed. And the club has over 50 aircraft, so behavior like that from the club would also be hard to hide.

Bugs definitely need working out, though you'd think three years into ownership and nearly 1000 hours would have been enough!
 
I picked to fix this by installing Cies senders and an Aerospace Logic fuel gauge.

It took calling around to three shops before one would do the work. I was about to give up and start applying for a ferry permit. What the hell? Both that turned down the work said it was too complex. How complex is a Cies fuel sender and digital gauge? Confused. And now I'm over a barrel waiting for the quote from the last shop and hoping they don't realize that.
 
Maybe indicator is wired with power and ground backwards so current is driving it in the opposite direction?
 
Certified airplanes. The worst kind.
 
Yes, I've had a needle fall off. But it was a hard landing!
 
Mechanical instruments really don’t like vibration. Well some vibration may be okay but not the panel shaking kind. That said, how’s the balance on the engine/prop? Keep’r smooooooth.
 
arnoha said:
I picked to fix this by installing Cies senders and an Aerospace Logic fuel gauge.

It took calling around to three shops before one would do the work. I was about to give up and start applying for a ferry permit. What the hell? Both that turned down the work said it was too complex. How complex is a Cies fuel sender and digital gauge? Confused. And now I'm over a barrel waiting for the quote from the last shop and hoping they don't realize that.
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It isn't complex at all. On a Cessna I'm thinking you can get to the sender via an inspection port. On my Cherokee I had to remove the tanks. When its all said and done, you will love your new gauge. I've been flying with mine for a couple of weeks now. They are dead on accurate and work just like a car's fuel gauge. The hardest part (that isn't hard at all) is the calibration of the gauge 2 gallons at a time.
 
Clark1961 said:
Mechanical instruments really don’t like vibration. Well some vibration may be okay but not the panel shaking kind. That said, how’s the balance on the engine/prop? Keep’r smooooooth.
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The prop has been balanced quite recently to a nice spec and the whole thing actually runs quite smoothly. I don't think this is the issue, unless the previous owner shook it to death and it just happened to fail right now. Doesn't matter...it did fail and it needs to be replaced. Bleh.
 
Timbeck2 said:
It isn't complex at all. On a Cessna I'm thinking you can get to the sender via an inspection port. On my Cherokee I had to remove the tanks. When its all said and done, you will love your new gauge. I've been flying with mine for a couple of weeks now. They are dead on accurate and work just like a car's fuel gauge. The hardest part (that isn't hard at all) is the calibration of the gauge 2 gallons at a time.
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This was my thought, on reading the directions. It may be hubris, but I think I wouldn't have much trouble putting this in myself. The senders are available via inspection port. It think the hardest part would be grabbing an amp off the essential bus for the senders and the gauge. But still not too challenging. Everything else is just a bolt in.
 
arnoha said:
The prop has been balanced quite recently to a nice spec and the whole thing actually runs quite smoothly. I don't think this is the issue, unless the previous owner shook it to death and it just happened to fail right now. Doesn't matter...it did fail and it needs to be replaced. Bleh.
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Previous owner operation is a pain. I had to either overhaul or replace most of the mechanical instruments in the 'kota.
 
Well, finally found a shop to install the fuel senders and fuel gauge. We'll see what it really costs, but Cies is apparently giving the guidance that it's 16 hours of work. Yipe. That's a good deal more than I was expecting. I know there's work to do, as the senders as they are now powered, so a new line needs to be run to each tank. And calibration needs to be done. But it's still a little surprising.

Also, holy crap, that was a $4000 needle.
 
I'll put forth the proposition that if fuel gauges were banned from airplanes, that fuel exhaustion incidents would be reduced. Fuel management and aviation decision making skills would be increased. That being said, the rules say ya gotta have em and I feel your pain in the expense of airplane parts.
 
arnoha said:
Well, finally found a shop to install the fuel senders and fuel gauge. We'll see what it really costs, but Cies is apparently giving the guidance that it's 16 hours of work. Yipe. That's a good deal more than I was expecting. I know there's work to do, as the senders as they are now powered, so a new line needs to be run to each tank. And calibration needs to be done. But it's still a little surprising.

Also, holy crap, that was a $4000 needle.
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Confused. Was that the total price meaning you have the fuel system working again? Now I know how much I saved by doing it myself under the supervision of a mechanic and paying the IA $50 for his signature on the 337.
 
George Mohr said:
Wait... what?!
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Yeah, no joke. Welcome to Textron pricing schemes. That gauge in the top picture...3 AMU.

Timbeck2 said:
Confused. Was that the total price meaning you have the fuel system working again? Now I know how much I saved by doing it myself under the supervision of a mechanic and paying the IA $50 for his signature on the 337.
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So, about 1 AMU for the senders (2 Cies senders. Stock Rochester parts are over $1000 each). 1 AMU for the gauge (Aerospace Logic, not the stock gauge, which, as noted above, is $3000 or so). 16 hours labor which comes to about 2 AMU. Total is probably close to $4000 for the whole repair. Also...plane will have been down three weeks, so lost out on all that rental and had to pay all those fixed costs for no benefit.

This was not a super smile-inducing experience. The expense is bad enough. Having mechanics walk away from even quoting the repair really gets under my skin. One, Peninsula Avionics, literally had the owner turning his back and walking away from me and plane while informing me he wouldn't, just leaving me standing stupidly by my tiedown. Even the one remaining shop at KPAO, Rossi, who did quote the job and I accepted, took a week to come with a quote for AOG work.

As a kick-me-while-I'm-down, while the plane was down, I got hit with the 172S & R muffler replacement AD. The $14K I mentioned above in repairs the last six months is now up to $16K. I'm halfway to TBO and the reserve budget for the aircraft is exhausted. I threw another $10K into the account, which will float the plane for a while (maybe?).

But I am definitely questioning my decision to become a plane owner.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Confused. Was that the total price meaning you have the fuel system working again? Now I know how much I saved by doing it myself under the supervision of a mechanic and paying the IA $50 for his signature on the 337.
Click to expand...

Oh, question: Did you throw in a new breaker off the essential bus for the three, or just leave everything powered off the existing breaker?
 
arnoha said:
Heh. It's a leaseback and I wasn't flying my plane when it happened. I'll, uh, include "no tapping" instructions in the checklists?

More seriously, Cessna wants 3 AMU for a new gauge.
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Gawd I hate Textron. People used to claim Beech parts were expensive, but I never saw the kind of gouging that I have once Textron was running the show.

Their lawyers really do want to kill GA.
 
George Mohr said:
This is whole conversation is making me second guess my thoughts of a C182... :(
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If I was looking for a 182, I’d search for an early model that is well supported by aftermarket vendors. What you want to avoid is having to go back to the OEM for parts.
 
Prop overhaul at annual failed for hub corrosion. How many AMU's is a new McCauley?
 
George Mohr said:
An early 80’s R ok?
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I would think so, but I’m not as experienced with the different models/years of 182.

The impression I got was that there are lots of aftermarket parts for pre-85 Cessnas and not as much for the Cessna stuff after they restarted production in the late 90s.
 
George Mohr said:
An early 80’s R ok?
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I can't speak to 182, but all the research I've done with finding parts for my 172 really point to a deep aftermarket for pre-restart planes and a much more limited one for recent aircraft.

It's super frustrating to research a part just to find out that it's available from four manufacturers, of which zero make the part for the restart planes.

Story time: As anyone with experience with Cessna aircraft knows, they are idiots when it comes to seat adjustments. Cessna pilots all learn the butt wiggle...makes damn certain the seat pins are in place so you don't end up trying to control the plane from the back seat on takeoff. Cessna's solution was a recurring inspection with a go/no-go gauge on the seat tracks. Less than ideal. Several companies make various better solutions as backups to the main seat pins that should save your life. And they're cheap!

Ok, in the restart planes, the seats and the seat pins are much stouter. The problem is basically solved (though I still wiggle my butt before takeoff!) However, they still screwed up the seat adjustment, this time in the seatback rake cylinder. The hardware wasn't strong enough, leading to seat back collapse and a new way to find yourself flying from the back seat. A retrofit kit with a new cylinder and upgraded hardware was produced for an AD, costing a high $600.

That kit is now $2700. There is no aftermarket. Most owners (my plane included) replaced the cylinder with a steel rod (AD approved method). Luckily for me, the rake is just right as it is for me.
 
George Mohr said:
This is whole conversation is making me second guess my thoughts of a C182... :(
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Don't. Apples and cantaloupes. Lease back is not representative in the least of sole owner private use aircraft flown in a non-rental environment for less than 100hrs a year. Talk to other vintage 182 owners here who in general don't fly over 100 hours a year, and you'll get a more accurate idea of what ownership costs looks like. My wag, you're looking at similar all-in costs as my Arrow. Circa $11K/yr per 100 hours before hangar or financing (if applicable). IOW, not very much more than Warrior costs as sole owner, with the main penalty being fuel. And I was a Warrior owner before the Arrow so I know what that benchmark is. I'm telling you, I wish I would have been in a position to buy the Arrow back then, though I don't regret the 250 hours I put on the Warrior in 12 months. Cheapest flying I've done to date, no contest.

Anyone can have an engine event at any time. But just like a leaseback, those incidents are not representative of the median ownership experience. If you're gonna let the outliers in life paralyze you from living, you'll never live in earnest. Don't earmark more money than you can afford to lose, don't rent out your airplane because you want to afford more hull value, and you'll be fine. It's not complicated.

A1Topgun said:
Prop overhaul at annual failed for hub corrosion. How many AMU's is a new McCauley?
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There's never been a prop shop that couldn't find an excuse to condemn your stuff. I'd think owners would know this upsell racket by now. Never ever ever overhaul your prop, they see you coming a mile away. IRAN or just leave the prop alone. Beat them at their own game, find an used overhaul exchange unit. Hell, I may even keep the blades, though in reality you might as well buy the overhauled unit as a complete set for convenience. At any rate, they "propel" the airplane just as good as a new unit.
 
I do feel as if they took advantage of me to make a sale. The last couple years I have looked at the MT props when at Oshkosh, thinking of getting a scimitar prop. MT has a two to three month lead time as they do not stock inventory, they make the prop when the order comes in then ship the parts to Florida for assembly and then ship to U.S. destination. I did not want to wait that long, and the prop shop just happened to have a McCauley three blade scimitar in stock. Am I lucky or what? (sic) Just had everything finished on the annual yesterday in time for a week of crappy weather. so I won't know if it is any better until I can get it in the air.
I think the main reason for getting a scimitar prop is the "sex factor"! What are you willing to pay to get screwed!
 
CC268 said:
& Beechcraft...oh wait they are Textron now too
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Exactly. Like I said in the other post. Contrary to urban legend, Beech part prices really weren’t that bad until Textron bought the company. Then they got downright stupid overnight.

I wouldn’t touch a new Baron or Bo anymore than a new 182 unless I was going to sell it as soon as the warranty was up.

I’m actually fortunate that Textron has no interest in supporting the Beech 18.
 
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