Some days you can't catch a break.

Shepherd

Shepherd

Final Approach
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
5,344
Location
Hopewell Jct, NY
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Display name:
Shepherd
This was one of them:
For some reason my 8 year old grandson thinks this is hugely funny, and wants me to post it.

An expensive mistake by a mechanic. I was just glad I caught it before I got the engine started.
A friend of mine was killed, 6 years ago, when his prop disintegrated while flying.
sigh.......
 
You need a warmer hat. Last time it was subzero here I walked 3 miles to work.
 
After 3 days of lovely weather went out to aerodrome this morning to start a new student. Man he was ready. Alas weather didn't cooperate, low ceilings and gusty winds. So spent time showing him the plane, the preflight, and the facilities. So rescheduled for Saturday.

Glad you caught that Shep. One side? Wonder how much trouble that would cause for balance from the other side? Better to let a mechanic tell ya for sure.
 
Nothing a little JB Weld won't fix. :p Plastic wood if you want it to look nice.
 
mscard88 said:
After 3 days of lovely weather went out to aerodrome this morning to start a new student. Man he was ready. Alas weather didn't cooperate, low ceilings and gusty winds. So spent time showing him the plane, the preflight, and the facilities. So rescheduled for Saturday.

Glad you caught that Shep. One side? Wonder how much trouble that would cause for balance from the other side? Better to let a mechanic tell ya for sure.
Click to expand...

One of the hold down clips for the cowling was too big. It rubbed a ring 1/4" wide and 1/2" deep completely around the back of the wooden propeller. More than 3/4s of the way through the lamination on that side. Wooden props have come apart for smaller damage than that.
Could have ruined a lot of days, instead of just one.
 
Shepherd said:
This was one of them:
For some reason my 8 year old grandson thinks this is hugely funny, and wants me to post it.

An expensive mistake by a mechanic. I was just glad I caught it before I got the engine started.
A friend of mine was killed, 6 years ago, when his prop disintegrated while flying.
sigh.......
Click to expand...
Good pre-flight. You avoided becoming one of those it was pilot error statistics where the error was before the engine was started. Way to many of those. Hope it isn't to painful on the wallet for you to get it fixed.
 
Zeldman said:
Uphill all the way, and you stuck your feet in fresh cow pies to keep warm.....:rolleyes::lol::lol:
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Nope, the terrain is flat, and I have really good gloves. Mrs. Steingar knitted me a couple giant scarves to wrap around my face. To be honest, I have bigger problems getting hot than I do getting cold here.
 
Shepherd said:
One of the hold down clips for the cowling was too big. It rubbed a ring 1/4" wide and 1/2" deep completely around the back of the wooden propeller. More than 3/4s of the way through the lamination on that side. Wooden props have come apart for smaller damage than that.
Could have ruined a lot of days, instead of just one.
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OK, yeah, I was thinking more of a "deep scratch", but what you're describing occurred is very serious.

Glad the mechanic is cooperating. Hope ya get it back in the soon!
 
Shepherd said:
And it's snowing, again.
Click to expand...

Cub is down w/ the prop anyway? Or you flying something else?

2 days of good wx here, light winds, but no one wants to fly. :(

They all do when the wind picks up or Tsms are predicted...
 
Shepherd said:
And it's snowing, again.
Click to expand...

Come on down to the southwest. Saturday, partly cloudy skies, (meaning scattered about 12,000 t0 18,000), with light winds developing during the afternoon. High 78F. Winds WSW at 20to30mph. Winds could occasionally gust over 40mph.

Nice calm spring days for the weekend..!!!
 
mscard88 said:
Cub is down w/ the prop anyway? Or you flying something else?

2 days of good wx here, light winds, but no one wants to fly. :(

They all do when the wind picks up or Tsms are predicted...
Click to expand...

The Cub was fixed by the next day.
I try to fly something every week, but this week the weather has been keeping everything on the ground.
 
Half Fast said:
I imagine the .45 in your hand helped.....

:D
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Honest injun, it wasn't like that.
I showed the manager the damage, he looked in the log book, saw who serviced it the day before, pulled it into the shop and that afternoon put a new prop on it.
I wasn't party to the conversation with the guy who screwed up.
Which is probably a good thing.
 
I sorta hate to ask this, but....

Has that same mechanic done other work on your plane recently? If so, I would check it very carefully. Just in case.
 
Shepherd said:
And it's snowing, again.
Click to expand...

Ok serious question. You mentioned in your video -4 degrees. That is a common temperature at which we test shipbuilding or oilfield steel for brittle/ductile fracture characteristics. The same thing that sunk the titanic - rivets breaking in two rather than yielding.

Do you (or anyone here) consider that a concern in an old cub? I think the old ones were built with low carbon tubing, like a 1018 or 1020 or so. The newer tube and fabric ones i think are almost always 4130, which usually has good low temp impact results.

Obviously you dont set out to put lots of impact loading into your airframe, but...
 
Old97 said:
Ok serious question. You mentioned in your video -4 degrees. That is a common temperature at which we test shipbuilding or oilfield steel for brittle/ductile fracture characteristics. The same thing that sunk the titanic - rivets breaking in two rather than yielding.

Do you (or anyone here) consider that a concern in an old cub? I think the old ones were built with low carbon tubing, like a 1018 or 1020 or so. The newer tube and fabric ones i think are almost always 4130, which usually has good low temp impact results.

Obviously you dont set out to put lots of impact loading into your airframe, but...
Click to expand...
In 45 years around airplanes that's the first time I've ever heard that concern. We used to fly in the flight school down to -25°C, which is -13°F, and it was the engines that kept us from flying in deeper cold than that. They would run too cold, which made the cabin cold, and they'd quit too easily during practice forced landings.

Lots of bush pilots fly at -40, which is the same in C as in F.

I had understood that the Titanic's brittle steel was more due to too much sulfur in it. Lends it cold-shortness, which causes cracking too easily.
 
Dan Thomas said:
In 45 years around airplanes that's the first time I've ever heard that concern. We used to fly in the flight school down to -25°C, which is -13°F, and it was the engines that kept us from flying in deeper cold than that. They would run too cold, which made the cabin cold, and they'd quit too easily during practice forced landings.

Lots of bush pilots fly at -40, which is the same in C as in F.

I had understood that the Titanic's brittle steel was more due to too much sulfur in it. Lends it cold-shortness, which causes cracking too easily.
Click to expand...
Aluminum ductility gets better at lower temps.

Im not saying anyone should freak out. But build anything for offshore with untested steel and you’ll be cutting that stuff out and replacing it.

Yes too much sulfur i think will really hurt impact properties. If I remember my metallurgy right.

Im just curious if there is a different standard, and if it exists, why?
 
Dan Thomas said:
I had understood that the Titanic's brittle steel was more due to too much sulfur in it. Lends it cold-shortness, which causes cracking too easily.
Click to expand...
My understanding (what was told from engineering school) is that it was a lack of understanding of fracture toughness (K1c). Everything back then was designed to the yield strength of the metal, but Kic was not yet understood. In laymens terms, basically the ability of a crack to propagate.
 
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Old97 said:
Aluminum ductility gets better at lower temps.

Im not saying anyone should freak out. But build anything for offshore with untested steel and you’ll be cutting that stuff out and replacing it.

Yes too much sulfur i think will really hurt impact properties. If I remember my metallurgy right.

Im just curious if there is a different standard, and if it exists, why?
Click to expand...

We don't build much of anything in the oil patch without mill certs now. Not a pipeline, not a rig derrick, not a compressor bottle or dehy shell.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
My understanding (what was told from engineering school) is that it was a lack of understanding of fracture toughness (Kic). Everything back then was designed to the yield strength of the metal, but Kic was not yet understood. In laymens terms, basically the ability of a crack to propagate.
Click to expand...
My understanding is kic or k1c is a different way to measure ductility. Charpy impact is cheap and works for steel. K1c works for aluminum where charpy really does not.
 
Old97 said:
Ok serious question. You mentioned in your video -4 degrees. That is a common temperature at which we test shipbuilding or oilfield steel for brittle/ductile fracture characteristics. The same thing that sunk the titanic - rivets breaking in two rather than yielding.

Do you (or anyone here) consider that a concern in an old cub? I think the old ones were built with low carbon tubing, like a 1018 or 1020 or so. The newer tube and fabric ones i think are almost always 4130, which usually has good low temp impact results.

Obviously you dont set out to put lots of impact loading into your airframe, but...
Click to expand...

The biggest problem is keeping the engines running on the J3-65 (hp) planes in very cold weather.
These planes are all ORIGINAL parts. They don't like to run in the cold, and with a wooden prop, there is not enough mass to keep them spinning when you throttle back. One of the planes got so bad I had 5 engine out landings in 7 trips around the patch. We finally pulled it out of service in December.
I'll post some video so you can hear a 77 year old, all original 65 hp Continental in operation. It's noisy, and sounds like it's shedding parts when it slows down to idle speed.
 
Shepherd said:
One of the planes got so bad I had 5 engine out landings in 7 trips around the patch.
Click to expand...
So, this is you?
jYDoQ7I.jpg
 
Shepherd said:
I wasn't party to the conversation with the guy who screwed up.
Which is probably a good thing.
Click to expand...

I found our right landing light cover sitting on the wing one early morning. You couldn't miss it if you tried as it created a 2' hole in the leading edge.

Well apparently someone did and signed the plane off as airworthy! o_O

When the manager showed up he called back to the hanger and told them to lock the doors and not to let 3rd shift leave. He had some yelling to do!

I really thought once I entered 121 I wouldn't have any good WTF stories to tell!
 
ARFlyer said:
I really thought once I entered 121 I wouldn't have any good WTF stories to tell!
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Preflighting a Brasilia years ago. Cargo door open so I look inside. Tools and the two outflow valves lying on the floor. Uh Flight Control gonna need a different ride tonight.
 
ARFlyer said:
I found our right landing light cover sitting on the wing one early morning. You couldn't miss it if you tried as it created a 2' hole in the leading edge.

Well apparently someone did and signed the plane off as airworthy! o_O

When the manager showed up he called back to the hanger and told them to lock the doors and not to let 3rd shift leave. He had some yelling to do!

I really thought once I entered 121 I wouldn't have any good WTF stories to tell!
Click to expand...

Well at least it wasn’t the HStab leading edge panel screws.

Oh btw, your days of WTF stories are just beginning. There are always plenty in 121.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Well at least it wasn’t the HStab leading edge panel screws.

Oh btw, your days of WTF stories are just beginning. There are always plenty in 121.
Click to expand...

Brasilia? The Continental Express one that crashed? That accident was on that TV show a few days ago,forget the name and network.
 
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