PETA gone too far?

Cap'n Jack

Cap'n Jack

Final Approach
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Cap'n Jack
Like bacteria, brine shrimp have feelings too.
 
I think the answer to the question posed by the thread title has been obvious for years.
 
NIH approval??? It's brine shrimp for heavens sake. The MOST COMMON shrimp on Earth....
 
My kid wanted to do a middle school science project on "are dogs' mouths really cleaner than humans'?" It would have involved swabbing the gums of dogs and people with Q tips and seeing what grew in a petri dish as a result. He was turned down because it involved "human experimentation." You'da thought he was proposing to grow actual people in the petri dishes.

Just another data point on how bureaucrats want to reduce everything to a form so they can't be second guessed for exercising judgment.
 
What they re referring to is the restrictive use of LD50 assays on vertebrates. They aren't the easiest things to justify, and you have to do so to conduct such a test on any animal in which such a test might be relevant. Even harder if the beastie is regulated by the USDA. Invertebrates are not included in any of this.
 
steingar said:
What they re referring to is the restrictive use of LD50 assays on vertebrates. They aren't the easiest things to justify, and you have to do so to conduct such a test on any animal in which such a test might be relevant. Even harder if the beastie is regulated by the USDA. Invertebrates are not included in any of this.
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Ummm, it's worse than that. Brine shrimp are the standard "critter" to use for water toxicity (or however it is phrased) tests.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I think the answer to the question posed by the thread title has been obvious for years.
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I agree, but I don’t see PETA mentioned in that link. Not sure where the OP made the association.
 
We’re talking about the same knucklehead organization that tried to shut down the fish throwing at Pike Place Market in Seattle...even though the fish are already dead...
 
Clark1961 said:
Ummm, it's worse than that. Brine shrimp are the standard "critter" to use for water toxicity (or however it is phrased) tests.
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Fine, and their use isn't regulated by any federal agency of which I am aware, and I did spend years on my institution's IACUC.
 
steingar said:
Fine, and their use isn't regulated by any federal agency of which I am aware, and I did spend years on my institution's IACUC.
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The use of brine shrimp in toxicity tests is mandated by EPA.
 
Yes, sometimes PETA goes too far.

But I would think everyone would be in favor of treating animals in an ethical manner. I certainly am.

The level of snark and sarcasm directed at those who care about such things is disappointing. And, I suppose, best ignored.
 
Years ago my wife was a middle school science teacher. One year they ordered crayfish for an experiment and they came too small to work, so the next year they ordered the jumbos. Those were way too large. Her co-teacher was trying to figure out what to do with them. Margy said she'd take care of it. We had perhaps the most expensive crayfish for dinner that night. Margy shows up with the bucket and tells me "cook these."
 
Everskyward said:
I agree, but I don’t see PETA mentioned in that link. Not sure where the OP made the association.
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They aren't. I used to work in a drug discovery lab and we had no animals. We were regularly picketed by PETA. We used biological assays (molecular level) for some work, and petri dishes with bacteria and fungi while looking for antibiotics. It is good to ask whether an animal needs to be used for experiments, and treat it as well as reasonably possible, but that group goes too far sometimes.

It is somewhat telling whether someone wonders about whether if they could use brine shrimp for their work now.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
It is somewhat telling whether someone wonders about whether if they could use brine shrimp for their work now.
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I think it was a sarcastic question since brine shrimp testing is specified by EPA.
 
Clark1961 said:
I think it was a sarcastic question since brine shrimp testing is specified by EPA.
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I don't think it was a sarcastic question. The question refers to a "local medicinal plant" rather than an EPA procedure. Brine shrimp lethality assay is also used for assay-directed fractionation for natural products. A plant part, such as leaves is ground into a paste and extracted with alcohol. If the extract is active, it is then run on one or more chromatography columns to resolve the individual compounds. Since the chemist doesn't know what compounds are in the extract, the biological assay is used to determine which fractions are active, hence "assay-directed fractionation". In this case, the assay is the brine shrimp lethality assay. It is an inexpensive assay when one is looking for general biological activity rather than a more specific target based on interactions between proteins, for example.

An example of brine shrimp assay directed fractionation is in this abstract: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/cpb/50/1/50_1_133/_article

I suspect the questioner doesn't know about the EPA procedure using brine shrimp, as the assay seems to have been developed for natural products:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...eneral_Bioassay_for_Active_Plant_Constituents
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I don't think it was a sarcastic question. The question refers to a "local medicinal plant" rather than an EPA procedure. Brine shrimp lethality assay is also used for assay-directed fractionation for natural products. A plant part, such as leaves is ground into a paste and extracted with alcohol. If the extract is active, it is then run on one or more chromatography columns to resolve the individual compounds. Since the chemist doesn't know what compounds are in the extract, the biological assay is used to determine which fractions are active, hence "assay-directed fractionation". In this case, the assay is the brine shrimp lethality assay. It is an inexpensive assay when one is looking for general biological activity rather than a more specific target based on interactions between proteins, for example.

An example of brine shrimp assay directed fractionation is in this abstract: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/cpb/50/1/50_1_133/_article

I suspect the questioner doesn't know about the EPA procedure using brine shrimp, as the assay seems to have been developed for natural products:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...eneral_Bioassay_for_Active_Plant_Constituents
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Ummm, you missed it entirely. Print sarcasm is that way. A "local medicinal plant"....really?
 
Clark1961 said:
Ummm, you missed it entirely. Print sarcasm is that way. A "local medicinal plant"....really?
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I don't think I missed anything. "Jessore University of Science and Technology" is in Bangladesh. Asia still does a lot of natural products research. I'll be at a meeting with a group of natural products scientists in a couple of weeks.
 
I flew in a leather flight jacket today, had a bag of fried pork rinds, and just finished off a plate of ribs and garlic string beans coated in bacon grease and garlic and roasted in the oven.
Seriously.
I won't make snarky comments about PETA, if you don't turn me over to them.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
They aren't. I used to work in a drug discovery lab and we had no animals. We were regularly picketed by PETA. We used biological assays (molecular level) for some work, and petri dishes with bacteria and fungi while looking for antibiotics. It is good to ask whether an animal needs to be used for experiments, and treat it as well as reasonably possible, but that group goes too far sometimes.

It is somewhat telling whether someone wonders about whether if they could use brine shrimp for their work now.
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OK, so PETA is not involved, except in your mind.

This is not an endorsement of PETA, however I think the title of the thread is misleading and has gotten people stirred up about PETA.
 
Everskyward said:
OK, so PETA is not involved, except in your mind.

This is not an endorsement of PETA, however I think the title of the thread is misleading and has gotten people stirred up about PETA.
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Mayhaps, but it is a fairly calm thread and it will probably disappear by tomorrow morning.
 
FastEddieB said:
Yes, sometimes PETA goes too far.

But I would think everyone would be in favor of treating animals in an ethical manner. I certainly am.

The level of snark and sarcasm directed at those who care about such things is disappointing. And, I suppose, best ignored.
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I like the environment.
I like animals of all kinds.
I like people of all races/groups.

There is zero correlation between those views and the fact that I have zero use for radicalized groups like PETA, Earth First, the Sierra Club, etc. To be fair, I’m sure many groups started with the best of intentions. Unfortunately they often seem to degrade into bizarre maniacal actions and viewpoints.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
So? What’s wrong with using brine shrimp?
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Brine shrimp gotta be used. No disapproval of the use is possible. The brine shrimp are sensitive to toxins and a necessary part of the food chain.
 
Clark1961 said:
Brine shrimp gotta be used. No disapproval of the use is possible. The brine shrimp are sensitive to toxins and a necessary part of the food chain.
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I’m sorry. I’m confused. Did your earlier post I quoted imply there was a problem with using shrimp? I thought that’s what you were saying. I understand why they are used.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I’m sorry. I’m confused. Did your earlier post I quoted imply there was a problem with using shrimp? I thought that’s what you were saying. I understand why they are used.
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No, my post you quoted did not imply there was a problem with using shrimp. Another poster noted there was no regulation against it and I pointed out that regulation mandated the use of brine shrimp.

We had to deal with the testing with offshore drilling fluids. I hadn't thought about it in a long time so I initially didn't point out that testing using brine shrimp was required. When I recalled the test requirement...well, the whole thing became a bit funnier since 1) ethical treatment of simple organisms is not a thing, and 2) toxicity testing using brine shrimp is a requirement.
 
Clark1961 said:
No, my post you quoted did not imply there was a problem with using shrimp. Another poster noted there was no regulation against it and I pointed out that regulation mandated the use of brine shrimp.

We had to deal with the testing with offshore drilling fluids. I hadn't thought about it in a long time so I initially didn't point out that testing using brine shrimp was required. When I recalled the test requirement...well, the whole thing became a bit funnier since 1) ethical treatment of simple organisms is not a thing, and 2) toxicity testing using brine shrimp is a requirement.
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Ah. Thanks. I was lost there for a while. I’m getting used to it though....
 
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