What planes should I consider?

TimRF79

TimRF79

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Tim
OK, I am about 20 hours into my PPL and keep thinking if/what plane I would like to buy once I get my PPL.
The reason I think about buying:
  • The club where I take lessons is about 45 minute drive from my house, there are 2 airports within a 10 minute drive.
  • I am working on my PPL flying 7+ hours a week, that's a rate of ~150 hours per year most say 100 hours is break even point
  • Club charges based on hobs time, rule of thumb is that this lowers the break even sub 100
  • I would like to go travel over the weekend or for a week, (continental US), which makes renting expensive with minimums
  • Flying for pilots and paws is a big desire, not every club plane will allow dogs
  • Having the same plane flying each time helps reducing mistakes, with the club I may have to switch planes based on availability
  • After PPL, complex (gear and fixed speed prop, high performance, IFR and commercial are planned for sure (which limits potential club planes
  • I am 6'6", 250lbs, my wife is 5'9" 180lbs, our dog is 60lbs, not every club plane is made for 2 tall people with a dog
Based on the motivations above, what planes should I be looking at?
Are 6 seaters (while more plane than needed) a good idea, as they offer more room and then required carrying capacity?

Budget, giving the (still) low interest rates looking to finance, so year 1970 and younger. Let's cap it at $150k.
 
Given your mission, I'd be looking at 182s. What field elevations would you normally be flying into/out of? What kind of summer temperatures? Any mountain flying?
 
I started my thought with a 182...
Some things against a 182 -> not very fast
Supposedly Low wings flies "nicer"
RG system in 182 not very reliable

Home elevation 50ft, temps in summer top at 100F
Ideally like to visit friends in Seatlle area...
 
TimRF79 said:
I started my thought with a 182...
Some things against a 182 -> not very fast
Supposedly Low wings flies "nicer"
RG system in 182 not very reliable

Home elevation 50ft, temps in summer top at 100F
Ideally like to visit friends in Seatlle area...
Click to expand...
My 182 does a little over 140ktas. Not "fast", but it's hard to beat with a FG single.

Did someone that flies low wings tell you they fly nicer? They're about the same imo.... just feels different, obviously
 
Read the thread about high vs low wing. Used SR20? Not a retract though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
SR20 looks it will be tough to get dogs in and out?
And it is not retractable..

Let's go the other way around what excludes:
177 RG
Bonanaza VTail 6 seater
Commanche
Arrow
Mooney M20J
 
TimRF79 said:
OK, I am about 20 hours into my PPL and keep thinking if/what plane I would like to buy once I get my PPL.
The reason I think about buying:
  • The club where I take lessons is about 45 minute drive from my house, there are 2 airports within a 10 minute drive.
  • I am working on my PPL flying 7+ hours a week, that's a rate of ~150 hours per year most say 100 hours is break even point
  • Club charges based on hobs time, rule of thumb is that this lowers the break even sub 100
  • I would like to go travel over the weekend or for a week, (continental US), which makes renting expensive with minimums
  • Flying for pilots and paws is a big desire, not every club plane will allow dogs
  • Having the same plane flying each time helps reducing mistakes, with the club I may have to switch planes based on availability
  • After PPL, complex (gear and fixed speed prop, high performance, IFR and commercial are planned for sure (which limits potential club planes
  • I am 6'6", 250lbs, my wife is 5'9" 180lbs, our dog is 60lbs, not every club plane is made for 2 tall people with a dog
Based on the motivations above, what planes should I be looking at?
Are 6 seaters (while more plane than needed) a good idea, as they offer more room and then required carrying capacity?

Budget, giving the (still) low interest rates looking to finance, so year 1970 and younger. Let's cap it at $150k.
Click to expand...

Some thoughts.

The close airports. Do they have hangar availability? Make sure you know what they have before buying. Also make sure you know what maintenance can be handled there and if there are mechanics you trust. Airplanes break and ground themselves and you won’t be flying it to your favorite mechanic sometimes.

Also make sure your instructors will fly a) out of those airports and more importantly b) in your airplane for your recurrency and the IR. Some can’t/won’t for insurance or other reasons. Just double check if you like them and want to use them. Otherwise you’ll be on a new hunt for instructors.

Many people slow their flying a bit outside of training. Long XCs and a “mission” mentality to use the airplane somewhat alleviate this.

Remember 100 hours is not always break-even. There’s a 182 on my home airport that is so cheap to rent we don’t know how they do it. It’s equal to or below our long term calculated costs consistently. Skimping on maintenance or just need a loss to put against income for the owner? Don’t know. Haven’t flown it.

Remember 100 hours is 2 hours a week every week. Or... longer flights less often.

IFR is about the panel not so much the aircraft. Buy the best panel you can afford. If you have to install it you’ll lose more than the guy who bought it already in the airplane for the most part.

We CAN take our dogs in my 182. I literally never have in over a half decade of ownership. Reason: Not many places we travel to would be dog friendly. So we board them with some folks that they love at a Commerical “day camp/kennel” for trips. They enjoy their vacation and we enjoy ours.

Pilots and Paws is a nice thing. I wouldn’t base an aircraft purchase on it though. Ted on the other hand, I see why he does. :)
 
How about a nice C-210, why not?
Big, roomy, fast for a Cessna, fair cargo capacity, retracts... good plane.

Cessna-210-in-flight.jpg
 
You should definitely buy. I bought my Archer about halfway thru my PPL training. I flew it almost daily during PPL. I flew from my home field to my lessons and back. Logged probably 100 hrs before I even took my PPL checkride. (What the hell, I had a plane!) Flew it XC for 2 yrs after that, down to San Diego and up to Seattle, and everyplace in between. Probably put about 200 XC hour on her before even starting Instrument training.

Do the math and figure out which planes will fit your mission/loads, then find them and sit in them to see how you fit. Their dimensions don't mean squat. You gotta sit in them. Narrow the field, try to fly a few.
 
210 is a good one.

U206 is another to consider, but might be a little out of that price range, though the rear door would really be great for your mission.

Little smaller but a larger maule
 
Not much actual experience, but from my research, I would agree with the Maule, other than speed. It's likely slower than a 182.
Has good cargo door and rear seat access though (nice for dog cages)...plus the low(er) maintenance of a 4 banger if you choose, and good STOL.
If you do consider a six seater, a Cherokee Six will get you decent speed, large useful load, and great access to the rear seating/cargo area, and the seats can come out for ton of room. Insurance will be higher though.
 
You should at least consider a Socata Trinidad. Not super fast, mine trues at ~155kts, but, 2 doors, retract with trailing link gear, large fuel capacity (86 gal), most are between 1100 and 1200 useful load, and even though it's considered high performance and complex, they are simple to fly. I actually found it easier to land than the 172 I trained in.
 
Yeah, if I had 206 money, I probably woulda gone that route rather than the 210 to avoid possible gear issues, but I like my 210
 
Why does this always happen?!
Seems every time this question comes up the same recommendation is made. It’s terrible advice.

There is NO way a low time pilot will get insurance in a 210!
No freakin way
 
Would consider a 210,or 177 rg. Easier to get a big dog in and out of the airplane.
 
Sierra Victor said:
Why does this always happen?!
Seems every time this question comes up the same recommendation is made. It’s terrible advice.

There is NO way a low time pilot will get insurance in a 210!
No freakin way
Click to expand...

I believe there is a member on this board who did his primary on a 210 then went to the dark side to pull the chute


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Sierra Victor said:
Why does this always happen?!
Seems every time this question comes up the same recommendation is made. It’s terrible advice.

There is NO way a low time pilot will get insurance in a 210!
No freakin way
Click to expand...

Correct me if I am wrong but can't you get insurance on anything if you pay the price? Is aircraft ownership different?
 
Sierra Victor said:
Why does this always happen?!
Seems every time this question comes up the same recommendation is made. It’s terrible advice.

There is NO way a low time pilot will get insurance in a 210!
No freakin way
Click to expand...

Define ‘low time’. I have a 210 AND insurance!
 
For getting that dog in and out of the plane (and especially the PnP missions with dog crates) I'd be looking at either something with big rear doors (Cherokee 6, Lance/Saratoga, 36 Bonanza) or a Cessna layout. The utility of having big doors on both sides of the plane shouldn't be undervalued. 182 or 182RG. Even better, 206/210.

You can get a really good 182 for $150 or less. You can probably get a good 206 for that. You may be able to get a good 210. You probably can't get a good Lance or 36 Bonanza for that price. Not sure about the Mooneys, but the baggage door layout makes a dog crate a non-starter.

I have not found that the low wing planes are appreciably more stable in turbulence than the 182 or bigger Cessnas. They ride a little different, but I wouldn't call it better. I suspect too much has been made of the Cessna gear retract systems. Talk to owners, but I think you'll find that well-maintained Cessna retracts have no more complaints than well-maintained Bonanzas, Mooneys, or Pipers.
 
JCranford said:
Define ‘low time’...
Click to expand...

From the OP's post #1: ;)

"OK, I am about 20 hours into my PPL and keep thinking if/what plane I would like to buy once I get my PPL."​
 
TimRF79 said:
OK, I am about 20 hours into my PPL and keep thinking if/what plane I would like to buy once I get my PPL.

Budget, giving the (still) low interest rates looking to finance, so year 1970 and younger. Let's cap it at $150k.
Click to expand...

Getting into the game is the cheap part. Can you swing the debt service, fixed and variable costs? Can you do all the above and set aside a reserve?
 
https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/19066255/1964-mooney-m20e-super-21

Your dog will love the back seat. Certainly no people will. Retract, the best climb performance of any Mooney and kinda seems built for a tall person - most shorter people sit very close to the panel, but with longer legs you push the seat back and get away from it. Best part is that it's only 35k, so you can almost buy it outright for the price of the down payment on a 150k airplane. And because it's only 35k, your insurance will be a about 1/4th the price of a 150k airplane. $115k buys a lot of gas.

Or this one at 65k.
https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1326701/1966-mooney-m20e-super-21

Review of M20E - http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/m20e.html
 
I always heard "Buy your last plane first", however this seems to not make sense if insurance would be outrageous (not to mention the lack of flying skill).

While I like the idea of room that comes with a 6 seater, maybe a 4-seater would be better to start off with.

What are the thoughts on a 177RG?

Large doors should make loading easy.
Prices in the 60k to 90k range
Fixed Speed prop
 
Champ for learning and move up to a Reliant (fixed gear) for traveling and hauling or, of course, a 180.
 
TimRF79 said:
I always heard "Buy your last plane first", however this seems to not make sense if insurance would be outrageous (not to mention the lack of flying skill).
Click to expand...
It isn’t bad advice in a very general sense, but there are obviously limits (and insurance companies tend to be that limiting factor).

There is no way in hell I could have bought, gotten insurance and safely flown a Beech 18 when I was a 100 hr ppl with a wet multi engine ticket. Nor would I have really wanted to....
 
I keep hearing 182 ... A LOT.
182RG vs. 177RG?
Based on my research ti sounds the 177 has more shoulder room and is better suited for tall people?
 
TimRF79 said:
I always heard "Buy your last plane first", however this seems to not make sense if insurance would be outrageous (not to mention the lack of flying skill).

While I like the idea of room that comes with a 6 seater, maybe a 4-seater would be better to start off with.

What are the thoughts on a 177RG?

Large doors should make loading easy.
Prices in the 60k to 90k range
Fixed Speed prop
Click to expand...

Check Sales Tax law in your state. Sales tax on a $150k airplane in CA is almost $12k. Even if insurance is expensive for the first few years, buying your last plane first may make sense if you factor in paying sales tax multiple times while you step up.
 
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