Safety Seminars: Meat and Potatoes or Breadcrumbs

FlySince9

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Jerry
I went to an AOPA seminar (THE BIG SKY), last night, with another POA member...

It was 2 hours long 7-9PM... we were hoping for some tips on spotting traffic, interfacing ADS-B info into your scan, operating in congested airspace, and maybe some statistics pointing out some common scenarios that lead to mid-airs. You know, the meat and potatoes of the subject. Instead we got breadcrumbs... about 15-20 minutes of real info and 1:40 minutes of life-stories that culminated in a story about taking a young cancer patient flying... Though a heart tugging story, had nothing to do with The Big Sky... So I left with a vintage-styled Balsa glider, a pen, and knowing nothing more than I knew when I got there... which is, some pilots are jerks so watch out when operating in close proximity to other airplanes...
 
I went to an AOPA seminar (THE BIG SKY), last night, with another POA member...

It was 2 hours long 7-9PM... we were hoping for some tips on spotting traffic, interfacing ADS-B info into your scan, operating in congested airspace, and maybe some statistics pointing out some common scenarios that lead to mid-airs. You know, the meat and potatoes of the subject. Instead we got breadcrumbs... about 15-20 minutes of real info and 1:40 minutes of life-stories that culminated in a story about taking a young cancer patient flying... Though a heart tugging story, had nothing to do with The Big Sky... So I left with a vintage-styled Balsa glider, a pen, and knowing nothing more than I knew when I got there... which is, some pilots are jerks so watch out when operating in close proximity to other airplanes...
Not surprised. Glad you still have hope for good safety meetings.

I have been to a few good ones over the years but many are trying to sell me something or exist only to feed the ego of the presenter.
 
Try and look at the positives.....2 hours nag-free, a 2 hour nap, and.……....................... .……........................……........................……........................……........................…….......................a BALSA GLIDER. I’m still running around the house playing with mine!



That should read ‘playing with my balsa glider’.
 
I went to a presentation by our local IFR club. A NASA engineer who specializes in airframe icing gave a presentation. To say it was eye opening is a bit of an understatement.
 
Was this the AOPA one in Monroe? I almost went to it but just couldn’t get my rear end engaged.
 
but it's wood.............

uhuhuhuuh-you-said-wood.jpg
 
Occasionally I find the safety seminars to be informative/useful. Most of the time, however, they quickly turn into either the presenter going off the rails or some attendee who keeps (1) asking irrelevant/stupid questions or (2) has a long-winded, meandering story for every single point in the presentation and insists on telling them. The presenters are usually too polite to tell the person to STFU.

I used to somewhat regularly attend the local IMC Club meetings. Initially, they were held at the office of a local investment firm, near two of the more active suburban airports, and were attended by a lot of active, experienced pilots. That led to some really good discussion. Then, the meetings were moved to an EAA chapter clubhouse at an airport further from the population center and that has a heavy experimental/low-and-slow presence. Once the meetings moved out there, the attendees shifted from active, experienced pilots (those guys stopped coming, presumably, because of the meeting location) to folks who don't fly anymore and just want to tell war stories, regardless of whether related to the evening's topic. I stopped going.
 
Have been to some great safety seminars,but lately ,they seem to be a waste of time and energy. Some of the presentations are good for wings credits,so pilots suffer through.
 
Like TV, movies, YouTube, POA posts, and many other things, you see good, bad, and indifferent in seminars.

With the WINGS seminars, its mostly about who is doing the presenting. Even (or may especially) with a canned FAASAfety PowerPoint, you leave some thinking, "Did this guy go through it even once before doing it?" Same topic with someone with halfway decent presentation skills, you come away with a completely different impression.

The one which still drives me crazy isn't content. It's the presenter who can't figure out how to start the presentation in slide show mode. I realize it's hidden away and pretty much inaccessible, but still...

8_from_beginning_command.png
 
about 15-20 minutes of real info and 1:40 minutes of life-stories

That pretty much sums up why I quit going to the Wings Program seminars. That and the two I went to the speaker liked nothing more than hearing himself talk.

I am writing something. Yes, I plan to make it the most boring thing ever written. I go to the store. A car is parked. Many cars are parked or moving. Some are blue. Some are tan. They have windows. In the store, there are items for sale. These include such things as soap, detergent, magazines, and lettuce. You can enhance your life with these products. Soap can be used for bathing, be it in a bathtub or in a shower. Apply the soap to your body and rinse. Detergent is used to wash clothes. Place your dirty clothes into a washing machine and add some detergent as directed on the box. Select the appropriate settings on your washing machine and you should be ready to begin. Magazines are stapled reading material made with glossy paper, and they cover a wide variety of topics, ranging from news and politics to business and stock market information. Some magazines are concerned with more recreational topics, like sports card collecting or different kinds of hairstyles. Lettuce is a vegetable. It is usually green and leafy, and is the main ingredient of salads. You may have an appliance at home that can quickly shred lettuce for use in salads. Lettuce is also used as an optional item for hamburgers and deli sandwiches. Some people even eat lettuce by itself. I have not done this. So you can purchase many types of things at stores.

Trees are one of our most important natural resources. They are made of wood, and wood can be made into a variety of products. Some of the more obvious kinds are furniture, houses, and toothpicks. However, wood can also be made into paper. When I first heard this, I was skeptical, but it is true. Paper is a very important product in our society. Writers and artists have greatly benefited from the invention of paper. With only some paper and a pen or pencil, a writer can produce stories and poems that can captivate readers. They can also write down historical facts about their society. Actually, these writings don’t become historical until years later. At the time, the writings could probably be considered news. Artists use paper for their drawings and paintings. They can also use canvas. Drawings and paintings can be very beautiful. They can depict a wide variety of subjects, including flowers, animals, landscapes, and people. They can be realistic or impressionistic. Some paintings also attempt to convey emotions merely by the way the colors are combined and the brushstrokes are applied. This is a modern or contemporary approach to art. Many people think this approach does not require as much talent as the realistic styles.

I will end my writing here. I have tried to make it very boring, and I hope I have succeeded. There are plenty of boring documents available for you to read. Check your public library for more information. You can also find boring materials at a bookstore or on websites. Sometimes this information can be found in magazines.

Airplanes are good. I hope you learned all about aviation safety. There will be refreshments served. I really do not like to make speeches, so I will keep this short. Now back to the subject at hand.
 
When I was back in Michigan I went to a couple of very good, very useful and informative safety seminars that were held at the Ypsilanti Hilton. Here in Vermont I've only been to one, that was held at KBTV and which was completely useless, in fact worse than useless because the presenters gave some "information" that was really misinformation, such as insisting that the regulations require that you have current charts in your possession when you fly.

And then there are the webinars... recently I attended a very good (reprise of) a webinar on landing at Alton Bay, NH. But there have also been duds, like the one about weather resources that started out with basic things such as METARs and TAFs and then soon degenerated into a sales pitch by the presenter. That was a couple of years ago now, and to this day whenever I get an email from FAAST about a webinar, I scroll down to see who the presenter is, and if it's Delia Colvin, I read no further... :(
 
I attended a WINGS seminar that was held locally a couple of years back, that discussed Winter Weather Operations. The presentation was informative and pretty well rounded, though it was more appropriate for an Upstate New York winter, rather a SE Tennessee winter. Still included several tips and tricks that were worthwhile nonetheless.
 
The last, and also the last AOPA seminar I will ever attend was right before they shut down the old Loran system. The speakers told us there was absolutely no way that the aviation Loran system would ever be shut down in this country. They recommended if we had a Loran in the panel, keep it, and if you didn't, go out and buy one. I bit. At that time the panel tray for my Loran had already been filled with a new GPS. Stupid me went out and bought a good used Loran and antenna. The Loran is still in a box of obsolete avionics on my hangar shelf, and I gave away the antenna. Yes, IMHO shutting down Loran was a poor choice, but my acceptance of BS information from experts was a poorer choice
 
Its funny, me and @eman1200 were just talking bout this thing last night on the way home from the Big Sky seminar... didn't mention the cute blonde.... didn't want slobber all over my car...
And then there would have been eman’s contribution to add to the mess...

:Do_O
 
And then there would have been eman’s contribution to add to the mess...

:Do_O

you SEE??!! there you go again. GENIUS! dude you're killin it. killin it like, um, Mason Pryor kill't it.
 
I attended a FAAST meeting 2-3 years ago when ADS-B was being discussed. The presenter was the FedEx guy in charge of ADS-B equipping of the FedEx fleet. He wasn't a pilot and had no concept of General Aviation. Sadly, the FAAST Manager was only slightly more knowledgeable. Both said everyone would need ADS-B out everywhere Jan 1, 2020. When several of us disgreed they argued. I pulled up the FAA requirements on my phone and read it to them. "Oh, we didn't know that. We thought it was like a Mode C transponder which is required everywhere." I just shook my head. When asked about the Mode C veil equivalent for ADS-B for non-electrical system they once again opinied, yes, it is required even for a/c certified without electrical system. Once again, I read them the rules...

Of the numerous ones I have attended, about one out of ten is informative and enjoyable.
 
I went to a FAAST seminar a couple of years ago. It was put on by the controllers at Boeing Field (KBFI). They did an overview of TCAS and the mandatory nature of -RAs, and some graphics showing statistical data on take offs and landings at KBFI and RA occurrences and frequencies. They also went into detail about VFR arrival and departure procedures at KBFI, itinerant operations, and the current problems at KBFI/KRNT/KSEA.

It was a great presentation. These guys had obviously given this seminar before and has some public speaking skills. Too bad not enough people are heeding their warnings. It looks like the problem hasn't gotten any better. The new VFR procedures require a lot of local knowledge and aren't as well publicized, IMHO.
 
Its funny, me and @eman1200 were just talking bout this thing last night on the way home from the Big Sky seminar... didn't mention the cute blonde.... didn't want slobber all over my car...

Dang, if I knew you two were going to be there, I might have gone. We could have had a mini POA drive-in.
 
FAASTeam seminars are up and down. A hint as to whether they’re worth attending if you’ve been to tons of them is whether they qualified for “Basic” Wings credit or “Advanced”.

Recently the EAA online seminars that used to be really good have degenerated into advertisements for the person presenting’s products. There wasn’t a single one in the next two months that wasn’t. Bummer.
 
I too agree with the general sentiment here. These seminars are hit-n-miss. Some have good information, some fall flat on their face even for student pilots.
You gotta look at the presenter's information, that is usually a big indicator as to the possible quality of the presentation.

And while Mrs. Delia is a smart lady, I wish she would present more involved topics instead of just student-level weather gathering. She has the potential, she should use it, I am sure she would draw huge audience (also thanks to her looks, which only aids safety anyway :) ).

Edit: our local IMC club has a few very experienced members (some from here too) and I get more good information from them than from any safety seminar I have ever attended, sadly.
 
These are hit or miss...

I went to one this past weekend that was an IFR Refresher... frigging AWESOMW, the guy teaching was prepared and did a great job of NOT talking to his power point slides.. And, I actually learned a few new things

I have been to others where I was put to sleep and some where the presenter was telling war stories...

All in all I do find them beneficial and appreciate the work that goes into them...
 
So what sort of topics does everyone prefer at an aviation seminar? Do you prefer accident prevention, maintenance, weather, regulatory compliance, engine operation, post accident survival, owner issues, or something else?
 
So what sort of topics does everyone prefer at an aviation seminar? Do you prefer accident prevention, maintenance, weather, regulatory compliance, engine operation, post accident survival, owner issues, or something else?

I think there are a fair amount and good variety of seminars being offered (at least 'round here). but I want to go to one and LEARN something, not sit around and listen to some dude talk for an hour or two about, well, nothing.
 
[QUOTE="azure, post: 2482032, d then there are the webinars... recently I attended a very good (reprise of) a webinar on landing at Alton Bay, NH. But there have also been duds, like the one about weather resources that started out with basic things such as METARs and TAFs and then soon degenerated into a sales pitch by the presenter. That was a couple of years ago now, and to this day whenever I get an email from FAAST about a webinar, I scroll down to see who the presenter is, and if it's Delia Colvin, I read no further... :([/QUOTE]

AGREED! Just got another one from Delia today. Every time I see her name now, I just delete, no way I'm going through another sales pitch.

FAA Safety Team | Safer Skies Through Education
You have asked us to notify you when a webinar is scheduled that meets your criteria. The following webinar may be of interest to you:

"Weather Risk Assessment"
Topic: Gain Confidence in Weather Using Great Weather Detection Tools
On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 08:30 Pacific Daylight Time (09:30 MDT, 10:30 CDT, 11:30 EDT, 05:30 HST, 07:30 AKDT, 08:30 Arizona, 15:30 GMT)

Select Number:
WP0182077

Description:

In this 90 minute webinar (plus Q&A) Delia will demonstrate her method to clarify and add certainty to often conflicting weather information.

• The top resource for assessing potential turbulence or mountain wave.

• The most unreliable site that most pilots depend on (and what to use instead)

• How to determine if icing is a factor

• Recognizing LLWS even when it's not forecast.

Click here to register today

To view further details and registration information for this webinar, click here.

The sponsor for this seminar is: FAASTeam



The following credit(s) are available for the WINGS/AMT Programs:

Basic Knowledge 3 - 1 Credit
Advanced Knowledge 1 - 1 Credit

Click here to view the WINGS help page
 
I too agree with the general sentiment here. These seminars are hit-n-miss. Some have good information, some fall flat on their face even for student pilots.
You gotta look at the presenter's information, that is usually a big indicator as to the possible quality of the presentation.

And while Mrs. Delia is a smart lady, I wish she would present more involved topics instead of just student-level weather gathering. She has the potential, she should use it, I am sure she would draw huge audience (also thanks to her looks, which only aids safety anyway :) ).
The thing that really turned me off about her was the false advertising inherent in the title: "Beyond the Weather Brief"... implying there would be material at least a little more advanced than what you are taught in primary training ground school. There wasn't, at least not before the sales pitch started. At that point I tuned her out, and when it was still going on when I came back, I signed out of the webinar.

I agree that she is smart and has the ability to do a really useful webinar, but she seems more interested in self-promotion and in drawing as large an audience as possible. If she ever graduates to doing a truly advanced weather webinar a la Scott D., I'll be interested, but until then...
 
AGREED! Just got another one from Delia today. Every time I see her name now, I just delete, no way I'm going through another sales pitch.

FAA Safety Team | Safer Skies Through Education
You have asked us to notify you when a webinar is scheduled that meets your criteria. The following webinar may be of interest to you:

"Weather Risk Assessment"
Topic: Gain Confidence in Weather Using Great Weather Detection Tools
On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 08:30 Pacific Daylight Time (09:30 MDT, 10:30 CDT, 11:30 EDT, 05:30 HST, 07:30 AKDT, 08:30 Arizona, 15:30 GMT)

Select Number:
WP0182077

Description:

In this 90 minute webinar (plus Q&A) Delia will demonstrate her method to clarify and add certainty to often conflicting weather information.

• The top resource for assessing potential turbulence or mountain wave.

• The most unreliable site that most pilots depend on (and what to use instead)

• How to determine if icing is a factor

• Recognizing LLWS even when it's not forecast.

Click here to register today

To view further details and registration information for this webinar, click here.

The sponsor for this seminar is: FAASTeam



The following credit(s) are available for the WINGS/AMT Programs:

Basic Knowledge 3 - 1 Credit
Advanced Knowledge 1 - 1 Credit

Click here to view the WINGS help page
Got the same email myself yesterday... I'd like to think there might be something there worth my time, but it's like the old saying: fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...
 
I have to say I was recently very surprised at the quality of a webinar put on by Sporty’s. The topic was how to use ADSB and XM in flight weather effectively. Very professionally presented and actually informative. And, they weren’t selling anything and covered how to use ABSB in Foreflight, Garmin Pilot and other programs. Overall, pretty happy with it. As for WINGs and other webinars, pretty much hit or miss. Either very little useful information and boring, or just a 90 minutes sales pitch. I wonder when the commercial guys will understand that if they put out a great free webinar, they are more likely to attract clients who are impressed with the quality of the presentation. This simple idea seems to escape some of them.
 
So what sort of topics does everyone prefer at an aviation seminar? Do you prefer accident prevention, maintenance, weather, regulatory compliance, engine operation, post accident survival, owner issues, or something else?

I would appreciate a serious discussion about the state of the union as far as the ADS-B 2020 mandate. Cost of compliance, current solutions available/approved, shop wait times and turnaround times. Also, debunking myths and rumors about ADS-B, WAAS, and NextGen program in general. Also, discussions on new graphical weather products or a how to on Skew-T charts.
 
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