Gmonnig
Pre-takeoff checklist
Dynon said that the STC does come with a D10 for the backup, included in the price. Pretty incredible deal. For once I wish my plane was less equipped so the cost delta would make sense.
Dynon Certified released today
- Thread starter denverpilot
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Dynon said that the STC does come with a D10 for the backup, included in the price. Pretty incredible deal. For once I wish my plane was less equipped so the cost delta would make sense.
denverpilot
Tied Down
They say the STC is written in such a way to cover the D10 as a backup as a single installation document.
They do not say it’s included in the price.
Significant difference. Read it carefully.
Gmonnig
Pre-takeoff checklist
Just going off what was said at Oshkosh last year. $20k installed with everything in that 172. Did not see a list of equipment but I specifically asked about the backup instrument so I could ditch the vacuum. Just passing along what the Dynon guy told me.
Gmonnig
Pre-takeoff checklist
455 Bravo Uniform
Final Approach
True. But the inelasticity is key.
Now, I don’t know anything about dealer restrictions, but if I carried a new product that sold like crazy because it was cheaper, and I had low competition, and the stuff I used to sell was stupid expensive, I would put my all-in cost to the customer quite a bit lower, but pad my labor a bit so the customer still paid quite a bit less and I got paid a bit more as well. But that tactic would put the Mfg at less of an advantage.
Now, I don’t know anything about dealer restrictions, but if I carried a new product that sold like crazy because it was cheaper, and I had low competition, and the stuff I used to sell was stupid expensive, I would put my all-in cost to the customer quite a bit lower, but pad my labor a bit so the customer still paid quite a bit less and I got paid a bit more as well. But that tactic would put the Mfg at less of an advantage.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Don’t know about Dynon but our avionics guy is straight up about Garmin. “Here’s my price from them, here’s what I think I should make to install it.” He’s not allowed to go below their pricing they set for the units. But it’s not the pricing you’ll find looking online anywhere.
To somewhat prove the manufacturers are in charge, two other shops we asked for quotes from declined to even quote when they heard we had a quote from him. They said their overhead at non-rural airports was higher so they couldn’t hit his bottom line price. Said if we were willing to fly there, there was no point in even quoting the job.
All we were really “negotiating” by shopping around was the labor costs. Garmin has the unit prices allowed, locked down, for the most part.
All of that would seem to indicate that flying an airplane somewhere rural with a lower cost of living is likely to garner the best overall price. The downside, if you need service on it, you’ll have to fly back there. Assuming the problem doesn’t ground the aircraft, of course.
If it’s grounded, call the higher labor price shop that’s local and get in line, probably behind their usual local customers who’d go first. For a pleasure aircraft, not a bad way to go. If you need to maintain a dispatch rate, stay local.
Long term relationships with businesses on the field or very nearby becomes critical then. “I really need this airplane flying tomorrow... can you help us out?” That begging works a lot better if you’ve put the mechanic’s kids through college. Hahahaha.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
They said that the installation should be much easier than it is for others for one simple reason: They’re used to selling to the experimental market, where most of the installers have no avionics experience at all and are going to be doing it for the first time, and they design their systems to make those people successful by doing things like including a pre-done wiring harness, something I had to pay my avionics shop to do.
It’s as close to “plug and chug” as possible, so should be trivial for an experienced avionics tech to get done quickly.
We’ll see if that ends up being true in practice, but it’s plausible at least.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Kinda strange that they’d say that, and then limit all initial installations to only three shops.
“It’s so easy... only three shops are authorized!” LOL.
But you know me, I like these little ironies.
Radar Contact
Pattern Altitude
My complete WAG is that they want to control the initial installs so that they have a 100% successful install/operation. They are trying to be revolutionary with this system (with pricing and competing against Garmin in the certified market) and if any of the first installations didn't turn out well then that could be very bad publicity.
Who knows?
I agree. I think they really want this to succeed. If these don't go well customers will look at other options. If these go great Dynon can dominate the refurb market.
If you think that's an exaggeration, think about the old planes out there. Old avionics, including no ADS-B, weak to no autopilot and so on. Toss the whole panel out and put in a Dynon system and you have a glass panel, high-end engine monitor, an excellent autopilot, plus ADS-B in/out. Add a certified GPS, if there's not one in the plane already, and you can shoot approaches as well. There are a lot of old planes out there that would otherwise need far too many dollars to bring them anywhere near to up-to-date.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
...ain't competition a great thing? Love this for Garmin.
arkvet
Line Up and Wait
Agree 100%. I think there's a lot of speculation that only having 3 shops do the install will result in higher install costs (supply / demand) for the Dynon. I think the reverse is true. I believe these shops are specifically chosen because they have lots of experience with these installs (in the exp market) and are there to establish a track record for certified installs for others to see. Months from now these shops can say, "We did 20 installs on various 172's with ancient panels. We averaged 34.5 hours / install"... That's are arbitrary numbers but the point is they will establish a baseline or goal for the install process / time frame. It should really reduce the price gouging when the market is opened up to more shops / individuals that are able to install. A benchmark on time and quality of install is about to be established. I will patiently wait to see the results.
My guess may be off but Dynon has a seriously good track record of making good choices over there many years of business in the Exp market. Why on earth should we expect different this time.
This is great for GA no matter how you look at it!
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Aztec Flyer
There's more to retrofit installs than just the time issue.
The autopilot feature adds a lot of potential complexity, as one example.
Perhaps they also want to uncover installation problems such as having to fabricate slightly different brackets for different versions of the same aircraft model, wiring harness differences, and such.
Cessna and Piper produced comparatively identical airplanes one after another off the assembly lines. As we can see from the various threads here, owners doing panel retrofits often want to customize. That's not compatible with "low cost". I wonder if Dynon's package is driving to a more standardized hardware/install with fewer total parts count to truly get the cost down?
The autopilot feature adds a lot of potential complexity, as one example.
Perhaps they also want to uncover installation problems such as having to fabricate slightly different brackets for different versions of the same aircraft model, wiring harness differences, and such.
Cessna and Piper produced comparatively identical airplanes one after another off the assembly lines. As we can see from the various threads here, owners doing panel retrofits often want to customize. That's not compatible with "low cost". I wonder if Dynon's package is driving to a more standardized hardware/install with fewer total parts count to truly get the cost down?
After reading the blurb in AOPA on John Torode (Dynon CEO, Vashon Aircraft CEO) this sounds like the case.
He’s seems big on figuring out how to be most efficient at doing something and finding partners that want to be successful in doing that thing with him.
G550
Filing Flight Plan
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G550
Dynon really has created an incredible package at a great price point with the SkyView HDX. Is there any limitations with the AoA in inverted flight? I looked over their site and didn't see one but does Dynon offer any type of simulator for the SkyView?