RC model airplane at Airport

[timwinters]

 

[brien23]

Any airport that has accepted Federal money can find themselves in violation of their grant assurances for allowing RC flights on the airport. Just saying...

You got any information on that or just your own thoughts. Any airport that accepted Federal money could find themselves in violation of their grant for excluding any segment of aviation.

 

[brien23]

It’s not about lives lost in hitting an RC (UAS) aircraft it’s about damage to the aircraft. Odds of an RC causing a fatality is slim but I don’t want one taking a chunk out of my wing either.

People always use the bird analogy but that’s absurd. I accept the fact that birds exist and they have free reign in their area. I can’t control them or enforce policy on them. What I don’t accept is someone operating a toy in a haphazard way that could cause me $$$ in the event of a collision. I wouldn’t expect an RC buggy to drive into my tire on my neighborhood street, I shouldn’t have to dodge an RC at my local airport either.

If you can't get along with people flying Rc aircraft in a responsible manner then you probably have other problems and should not be allowed to fly anything as you probably ignore FAR'S too.

 

[weilke]

Tim, I have to assume that my post is one of the one's you're referring to considering I ask the question of why they need to be at the airport. I can assure you my position is nothing like you suggest. It's a simple question. Why do these RC planes need to be flown from or very near an airport? Take a step back and consider why we have airports in the first place. From big to small, airports exist to provide a safe environment for aircraft to land and takeoff. Other than sharing some aesthetic qualities do these RC planes have any need to utilize an airport environment? In many, if not most, cases I think the answer is no.
.

They need a chunk of open space that is far enough from residential to avoid noise complaints.
I don't worry about a club operating under AMA rules at an airport. They tend to have a lot of discipline and do what is required to stay out of our way. I worry about a Yahoo who bought a $900 drone at Costco and the software from Russia to unlock any altitude and distance restrictions.

 

[Velocity173]

If you can't get along with people flying Rc aircraft in a responsible manner then you probably have other problems and should not be allowed to fly anything as you probably ignore FAR'S too.

I don’t think anyone has problems with those that fly RC aircraft in a reasonable manner. The problem arises with those who are operating without any established guidelines. Primarily not yielding to manned aircraft.

Like SoCal said above, if one has to do a go around to avoid an RC aircraft operation, that’s a problem.

 

[jimhorner]

If you can't get along with people flying Rc aircraft in a responsible manner then you probably have other problems and should not be allowed to fly anything as you probably ignore FAR'S too.

The issue isn’t with those who fly in a responsible manner; it’s with those morons who fly in an irresponsible manner. Seeing a large model airplane appear over the runway doing aerobatics just after takeoff isn’t something I want to experience again. That jerk was NOT flying in an responsible manner.


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[brien23]

The issue isn’t with those who fly in a responsible manner; it’s with those morons who fly in an irresponsible manner. Seeing a large model airplane appear over the runway doing aerobatics just after takeoff isn’t something I want to experience again. That jerk was NOT flying in an responsible manner.


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How is it possible that someone flies a large RC plane in a reckless manner and no one calls the cops or at least goes over to talk to the person doing it. As someone said their are people that just don't follow the rules, RC or full size aircraft. Pilots and RC people do things that make all of us look bad and cause problems with airport operations and that is how airports get shut down. Some pilots fight with the glider people, helicopter people, hot air balloon people, sport pilot trikes, parachute people and think only real airplanes like their aircraft should fly around their airport. That is the kind on people when the airport gets shut down blame everyone else for their loss. We need all parts of aviation to work in a safe and sane way or we all go down together.

 

[jimhorner]

How is it possible that someone flies a large RC plane in a reckless manner and no one calls the cops or at least goes over to talk to the person doing it. As someone said their are people that just don't follow the rules, RC or full size aircraft. Pilots and RC people do things that make all of us look bad and cause problems with airport operations and that is how airports get shut down. Some pilots fight with the glider people, helicopter people, hot air balloon people, sport pilot trikes, parachute people and think only real airplanes like their aircraft should fly around their airport. That is the kind on people when the airport gets shut down blame everyone else for their loss. We need all parts of aviation to work in a safe and sane way or we all go down together.

Well, in my case, I was taking off on the start of a x-country flight from Santa Paula to San Jose after my plane’s annual. I didn’t want to come back and land and expose myself to the RC plane once more just so I could try to track the yahoo down and either call the cops or confront him/her. Who knows, maybe someone on the ground witnessed the incident and did call the cops. I don’t know. What I do know, is that it was quite scary to see that large model suddenly appear in front of me just after wheels up.






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[James331]

I don’t think anyone has problems with those that fly RC aircraft in a reasonable manner. The problem arises with those who are operating without any established guidelines. Primarily not yielding to manned aircraft.

Like SoCal said above, if one has to do a go around to avoid an RC aircraft operation, that’s a problem.

As a kid I didn't have "established guidelines" I didn't need them, common sense worked great, it would have never crossed my mind to push right away with, or fly next to, a real aircraft, or fly over spectators, etc.

The thing is the people that need these things to be spelled out for them are going to do something stupid anyways.

Common sense, it's really all you need.

And paint by numbers, the sub class of humans how don't have it, not even pictographs will keep those people from doning stupid stuff, welcome to the human condition.

And spoiler alert, though the government has uses, not even your government demigod can protect you from stupid stuff.

 

[Velocity173]

As a kid I didn't have "established guidelines" I didn't need them, common sense worked great, it would have never crossed my mind to push right away with, or fly next to, a real aircraft, or fly over spectators, etc.

The thing is the people that need these things to be spelled out for them are going to do something stupid anyways.

Common sense, it's really all you need.

And paint by numbers, the sub class of humans how don't have it, not even pictographs will keep those people from doning stupid stuff, welcome to the human condition.

And spoiler alert, though the government has uses, not even your government demigod can protect you from stupid stuff.

Well sure, it would be nice if everyone operated as you say but as evidence above on 2 seperate stories, not everyone has common sense. I’d say not all are intentionally operating haphazardly either. Some are just nieve to any basic safety practices at all. None of my RC planes have any of the FAA part 107 UAS rules or Part 101 Model Aircraft rules in the assembly manual. Just bad broken English on basic rules of the air.

There’s a lot of ignorance and just bad info that gets put out about UAS activities, even on POA. I was flying one my jets at the airport one day and a local mech came up and said “you know that’s illegal to fly that here.” I just kind of laughed and said “no, no it’s not.”

 

[midwestpa24]

You got any information on that or just your own thoughts. Any airport that accepted Federal money could find themselves in violation of their grant for excluding any segment of aviation.

The FAA does not include RC flying as a bonafide aviation use. There have been numerous airports that have been found in violation of their grant assurances for R/C flying. The FAA did not pay to build the runway for R/C.

 

[brien23]

The FAA does not include RC flying as a bonafide aviation use. There have been numerous airports that have been found in violation of their grant assurances for R/C flying. The FAA did not pay to build the runway for R/C.

The FAA does not include RC flying as a bonafide aviation use. There have been numerous airports that have been found in violation of their grant assurances for R/C flying. The FAA did not pay to build the runway for R/C.

What are the numerous airports, can you name them we need the names of the numerous airports that lost federal funds for RC model flying. If you are going to name facts you have to be able to list them, or just say you think airports could loose funding but have no facts to back it up.

 

[midwestpa24]

What are the numerous airports, can you name them we need the names of the numerous airports that lost federal funds for RC model flying. If you are going to name facts you have to be able to list them, or just say you think airports could loose funding but have no facts to back it up.

I realize you think I'm BSing, but I work for an airport and deal with grants and the federales on a regular basis. I had a database that the FAA sent out of airports that were being investigated and will try to find it again at work tomorrow. However I specifically recall there being several on the list for allowing R/C operations. I have also personally dealt with the FAA on what constitutes aeronautical activity.

 

[brien23]

I realize you think I'm BSing, but I work for an airport and deal with grants and the federales on a regular basis. I had a database that the FAA sent out of airports that were being investigated and will try to find it again at work tomorrow. However I specifically recall there being several on the list for allowing R/C operations. I have also personally dealt with the FAA on what constitutes aeronautical activity.

So you have no facts to back up your statement and no names of airports that lost federal funding. I look forward to the list you are going to provide us with on Monday.

 

[OkieFlyer]

They fly em at 52F.

@OkieFlyer flies his at some Class B airport.

Yes, we fly RC planes at our airport. No, it's not Class B. brYan is being silly again.

Our municipal airstrip is very sleepy with very little traffic. In our case, we have permission from the local government to fly out there provided that we use handheld radios, have at least one spotter, and of course, give way to any full scale traffic. It has worked well for nearly 20 years now. We fly everything from foamies to 300+ mph twin jets and have had no issues. Many of us are pilots of full scale aircraft, including one charter pilot and one active duty B1 Lancer pilot. There is nothing about it that is unsafe in my opinion. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant of how a responsible RC group operates. We have fun, but we take our responsibility at the airport seriously so we can continue to enjoy the hobby. Anyway you slice it, it's aviation, and the aviation community ought to be behind it, and be willing to share the sky. Don't let the stupid people ruin it for the rest of us. If we let the idiots ruin everything we do, we wouldn't be able to do anything.

 

[bflynn]

responsible RC group

Nobody questions responsible groups. But you have to admit there are many irresponsible groups who make it necessary for you point out that yours is the responsible one.

 

[DFH65]

Our local museum airport I fly out of a lot has a long grass strip and is surrounded by fields. We hosts a lot of RC events as well as rockets. Nothing like flying in and seeing a scud missile come up. They launch some big rockets.

Our pattern is all to the North of the airport to keep less traffic from overflying the local college there. The planes and rockets stay to the south. They are good neighbors and know to be courteous and not rustle the jimmies of the pilots in big airplanes so they don't lose a great place to fly. We like having them it attracts interest in the museum.

 

[James331]

Well sure, it would be nice if everyone operated as you say but as evidence above on 2 seperate stories, not everyone has common sense. I’d say not all are intentionally operating haphazardly either. Some are just nieve to any basic safety practices at all. None of my RC planes have any of the FAA part 107 UAS rules or Part 101 Model Aircraft rules in the assembly manual. Just bad broken English on basic rules of the air.

There’s a lot of ignorance and just bad info that gets put out about UAS activities, even on POA. I was flying one my jets at the airport one day and a local mech came up and said “you know that’s illegal to fly that here.” I just kind of laughed and said “no, no it’s not.”

And you think regulations are going to save you from the criminals and idiots?

 

[Velocity173]

And you think regulations are going to save you from the criminals and idiots?

Never said regulations will keep us safe from criminals and idiots. In fact, I’ve said all along that there’s nothing in the FAA’s UAS rules that will keep people from intentionally doing stupid stuff. The registration one in particular is a laugh. Doesn’t change the fact that the act is unsafe and gives the rest of us hobbyists a bad name.

It does help to have education on how to safely operate an RC aircraft though. There are those that just don’t naturally have good air sense and need some guidance. That goes beyond simple written rules and into mentoring from other experienced pilots. Just like flying full scale. Most just don’t naturally exhibit good ADM and without education, no one would have a clue about regs and good operating practices (FAR / AIM).

I’ve also stated several times that the number of those operating haphazardly is so small, that I don’t worry about it from my own safety. It’s not much of a concern for even the possibility of damaging my aircraft. The problem is, everything gets blown out of proportion today. A few close calls with full scale aircraft and the media makes it seem like the sky is falling. In reality, with the shear number of UASs flying, there are very few close calls and at this point, only a couple of midairs that I know of.

 

[James331]

Never said regulations will keep us safe from criminals and idiots. In fact, I’ve said all along that there’s nothing in the FAA’s UAS rules that will keep people from intentionally doing stupid stuff. The registration one in particular is a laugh. Doesn’t change the fact that the act is unsafe and gives the rest of us hobbyists a bad name.

It does help to have education on how to safely operate an RC aircraft though. There are those that just don’t naturally have good air sense and need some guidance. That goes beyond simple written rules and into mentoring from other experienced pilots. Just like flying full scale. Most just don’t naturally exhibit good ADM and without education, no one would have a clue about regs and good operating practices (FAR / AIM).

I’ve also stated several times that the number of those operating haphazardly is so small, that I don’t worry about it from my own safety. It’s not much of a concern for even the possibility of damaging my aircraft. The problem is, everything gets blown out of proportion today. A few close calls with full scale aircraft and the media makes it seem like the sky is falling. In reality, with the shear number of UASs flying, there are very few close calls and at this point, only a couple of midairs that I know of.

Fair enough

 

[midwestpa24]

Just going through the AIP Handbook.

a. Aeronautical Activity. Any activity that involves, makes possible, or is required for the operation of aircraft or that contributes to or is required for the safety of such operations. Activities within this definition, commonly conducted on airports, include, but are not limited to, the following: general and corporate aviation, air taxi and charter operations, scheduled and nonscheduled air carrier operations, pilot training, aircraft rental and sightseeing, aerial photography, crop dusting, aerial advertising and surveying, aircraft sales and services, aircraft storage, sale of aviation petroleum products, repair and maintenance of aircraft, sale of aircraft parts, parachute or ultralight activities, and any other activities that, because of their direct relationship to the operation of aircraft, can appropriately be regarded as aeronautical activities. Other activities, such as model aircraft or model rocket operations, are not aeronautical activities.

Still trying to find the list I had of airports that were non compliant with their grant assurances. It used to be available as a spreadsheet on the FAA website, but they have moved things around again. There were many on the list for non aeronautical activity, including R/C operations, allowing racing activities, and even police driver training. I don't know what action the FAA took other than a stern warning, but at the end of the day, believe me, don't believe me, I don't really care.

There is a database available, but you have to know the docket number or complainant name. There used to just be a spreadsheet list you could download.

https://part16.airports.faa.gov/index.cfm?page=CaseFileSearch

 

[BGF_Yankee]

Any airport that has accepted Federal money can find themselves in violation of their grant assurances for allowing RC flights on the airport. Just saying...

Which one? Closest I could come up with is 19 or 20. That being said, I don't allow RC on my airport. I've almost hit one at another airport.

 

[midwestpa24]

Which one? Closest I could come up with is 19 or 20. That being said, I don't allow RC on my airport. I've almost hit one at another airport.

It is considered non-aeronautical activity (19). The FAA considers it the same as allowing drag racing to occur on the runway.