Buying my first aircraft

Eric Gleason said:
Oh, jeez, I meant to mention the ADSB issue in my market research post. Very, very few of the planes I saw at the $80k price point had ADSB. Definitely another reason to either up your purchase price or to budget for upgrades.

Were I in your position, I'd probably plan on financing most of the airplane purchase ($80k-ish) and using most of the cash for a big panel upgrade. I'd also be looking to buy into or form a partnership in an airplane that met my needs.
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We aren't even sure if he'll need ADSB...



Tom-D said:
https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...2C+SKYLANE&listing_id=2304774&s-type=aircraft

50k for the aircraft, 30k for up grades.
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Could do better


*edit, just noticed the 80/80/80/80/80/80 compression advertisement in that add, wee bit of a red flag for me, also means it has one of, if not the least desirable engine for a 172.

Also the thing is on the higher end of the price range at 50k, dumping 30k into it, talk about upside down, and not in the fun aerobatic way lol
 
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Tom-D said:
For an obsolete Aircraft that is no longer supported by its manufacture, and still needs USB update, plus way more aircraft than is need for mission.

Would ya like to do IFR training at those fuel flows?
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Seems people are doing just fine maintaining PA24s Tom.

Also what's the issue with taking 5 minutes to USB update a nav card once a month for IFR?
Seems tons of GA folks and much of the working fleet operates just fine that way, again maybe a problem for you, but for the rest of the world not so much.



As someone who professionally flys a ton of IFR and also is a CFI, the PA24 a great aircraft, tons of people have chosen it for great record breaking journeys and even tons more have chosen it as a great family hauler, traveler and fun burger run plane, it's everything you'd want to learn IFR in, well equipped, stable, handles beautiful, good useful load, nice back seat, more than enough range to easily make planning IFR alternates not a big deal, smooth engine and CS prop, and real world probably better MPG than the 172, it's plenty docile to learn from scratch in, but still not outgrow in short order like a 172.
 
"My mission basics: Build hours 250+, complete IR training, fly places for fun."

I know you are in love with the comanchee 250, So I'll not slap your girl friend.

But I'd not suggest a High horse power, with Constant Speed prop, and retracting gear aircraft for a first aircraft in a training situation.
 
Go away for a few hours and 45 posts pop up, this place is all right in my book.

So many great replies, I can't even begin to reply to them all, and as expected a ton of different suggestions for aircraft.

I think from looking around online so far, I think at this point bonanzas equipment to what I need at reasonable hours since overall etc are out of my price range, there is one debonair out there within it that seems pretty good but would certainly require some upgrading on the avionics (but that'd just at face value online without any further info to it). Leaves Comanches (which from an aesthetic point alone I love the way they look) , Arrows in the gear swinging realm from Piper, and then naturally all the fixed gear variants, few Mooneys out there too that could be an option though again just flipping the virtual pages of online classifieds none have jumped out at me. My hearts set on low wing A/C, but I think I will grab my CFI from my current club and check out a Cessna, one never knows just to be thorough. I will need ADSB too so that will be an expense down the road.

A lot of this procedure, as expected is going to be a balancing act on the pros/cons of each aircraft/hours/equipment/speed/fuel etc, and that can be a little overwhelming with so many options out there at my novice level of experience with what to look for.
 
scottfromboston said:
There's a beautiful DA-40, 1/3 share for sale hangared at LWM right now. Have you considered partnerships?
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I haven't discounted partnerships yet, I did some googling, and have been asking around and aside from the one you mentioned I haven't come across any.
 
WannFly said:
I have flown both 172 and currently Archer. never going back to high wing.
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Sorry, You're off base here.

Let us know when you got some C180 or 210 time.

I'm not saying you won't eschew the low wings forever, I'm saying before too long you won't care where the wings are, so long as they are attached.
 
Ravioli said:
Sorry, You're off base here.

Let us know when you got some C180 or 210 time.

I'm not saying you won't eschew the low wings forever, I'm saying before too long you won't care where the wings are, so long as they are attached.
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I have a couple of hrs in 182, honestly I loved it. it handles more like a truck than a car. none of the 182's I looked at fit in my budget....
but I stand my ground, between 172 and archer... I will choose archer any day.
 
okay, of COURSE a Cherokee is better than a 172.

[Ravioli runs for cover]

But that's not the same as saying you'll never go back to high wing.
 
SOB8604 said:
Well at first pass that one is pretty clean and well equiped, price isn't bad at at all.
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It's at one of my local airports. Equipment is one stop short of glass plus a great AP.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
Briar Rabbit said:
This ad lists it as aerobatic, is this correct? I did not remember them as classed as such.
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Yep. I researched it. Some from the factory, others with some post sale modifications. Light aerobatics.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
Tom-D said:
"My mission basics: Build hours 250+, complete IR training, fly places for fun."

I know you are in love with the comanchee 250, So I'll not slap your girl friend.

But I'd not suggest a High horse power, with Constant Speed prop, and retracting gear aircraft for a first aircraft in a training situation.
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Worked pretty well for me and my Mooney. Bought it 5 weeks after my PPL checkride. We've had an amazing 750 hours together flying around 18 states so far; instrument training in the plane after two more years' VFR travel through most of those went well, too, as I thoroughly knew the plane.
 
I'd stay simple for your FIRST airplane. Fixed-gear, low fuel flow and a decent panel for instrument work. Low fuel flow will help you save a lot while building time and your goal is to build hours, right? Why spend more than you have to? You can easily add a high-performance rating by renting an Arrow rather than buying one and paying the higher associated insurance and maintenance cost of a retractable. An airplane, even an unsophisticated one can really ding your wallet, especially around annual time. Also, renting a true aerobatic ship occasionally will be a lot more capable and rewarding than a compromise ship. But hey, it's you're money so go sexy if you like your first time out if that's what rings your bell.
 
James331 said:
*edit, just noticed the 80/80/80/80/80/80 compression advertisement in that add, wee bit of a red flag for me,
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Do you believe every thing you read in any ad?
 
Tom-D said:
"My mission basics: Build hours 250+, complete IR training, fly places for fun."

I know you are in love with the comanchee 250, So I'll not slap your girl friend.

But I'd not suggest a High horse power, with Constant Speed prop, and retracting gear aircraft for a first aircraft in a training situation.
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Huh?

I have a skywagon, if I wanted a PA24 I could have easily bought one instead, I recommend it because I've both flown them and instructed in them and they would be great for the OPs mission.



The Comanche is far from high power, and with the flaps and systems being as simple as they are in the PA 24, I'd say if the OP is smart enough to amass the money to get this thing in his 30s, has enough mechanic skill to, say drive a stick shift car, I'd wage he just might just be able to handle that docile little PA24 :)



Tom-D said:
Do you believe every thing you read in any ad?
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I just prefer the ones where the BSing isn't so blatant
 
SOB8604 said:
My mission basics: Build hours 250+, complete IR training, fly places for fun.
. . .
What I am currently thinking as the absolute musts in an aircraft before I buy:
4 Seats (though filling 4 will probably never happen, 3 is a certain possibility, but I've found it nice to have the extra room)
low wing
180 HP (or better?)
IFR
GPS GNS430 or better
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This requirements sound like a case for Bonanza, subject to your budget. Comanche is a possibility. If I were looking at your mission though, I'd drop the low-wing requirement and get a 182. BTW, I fly a Mooney M20E and the payload and rough/soft field capability are not sufficient for an active lifestyle airplane.
 
SOB8604 said:
Well at first pass that one is pretty clean and well equiped, price isn't bad at at all.
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This one does look like a pretty good deal. The low time since overhaul makes me a little wary. If the overhaul was done around the same time as the interior, that's not much flying in 2 1/2 years. I'm not sure that's enough activity to prevent internal corrosion in the engine. A good pre-buy will tell you that, but

FWIW, I'm not sure that adding a 172 to your list really gets you anything. You might like it, sure, but you've already got your heart set on a low-wing. The only thing you gain by adding 172s is a huge supply to choose from, all of them at a premium over Cherokees.
 
Eric Gleason said:
This one does look like a pretty good deal. The low time since overhaul makes me a little wary. If the overhaul was done around the same time as the interior, that's not much flying in 2 1/2 years. I'm not sure that's enough activity to prevent internal corrosion in the engine. A good pre-buy will tell you that, but

FWIW, I'm not sure that adding a 172 to your list really gets you anything. You might like it, sure, but you've already got your heart set on a low-wing. The only thing you gain by adding 172s is a huge supply to choose from, all of them at a premium over Cherokees.
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I really wouldn't worry about a lack of use, it's about as good a way of gauging condition as reading tea leaves.
 
Steps to chosing a plane:

Check out type clubs understanding that each will favor their type. Educate yourself on the quirks and pitfalls. Locate the type experts.

Sit in an example of each with your GF and find out what's comfortable for you.

Then find the one you want and budget in repairs despite that fact that you insisted on a prebuy. Anything left over can be used for operations or upgrades.
 
Some good solid advice, something I never considered either was having my GF involved in the process, instead of saying “here it is deal with it” getting her involved and her input where its something we want to do together her comfort = continued interes which in turn = continued support which is important.

Any size considerations, 6’2” and 250 for myself I certainly don’t wanna be stuffed like a sardine
 
Buying a retractable gear airplane with only 75 hours will mean a hefty insurance premium. Just sayin'...
 
Stan Cooper said:
Buying a retractable gear airplane with only 75 hours will mean a hefty insurance premium. Just sayin'...
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No doubt, something I'm certainly taking into consideration! Need to get some ideas from the insurance companies on policy prices
 
If you are set on a retract for your first airplane, you may want to get your PPL in a rental Cherokee and then buy your airplane to reward yourself for getting your PPL. Hire an instructor to drill you on the gear and other procedures in the new airplane. I think that might work out better for some people. Learn to walk before you run.
 
SOB8604 said:
No doubt, something I'm certainly taking into consideration! Need to get some ideas from the insurance companies on policy prices
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Premiums come down as your hours increase; 100 hours in tyoe used to be the magic number to aim for thenfirst year. I hit it almost exactly my first year (putting me right around 160 hours total), my premium fell by 50% at renewal. You may need to point out your hours to get it (I did).
 
coloradobluesky said:
If you are set on a retract for your first airplane, you may want to get your PPL in a rental Cherokee and then buy your airplane to reward yourself for getting your PPL.
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My friend in East Texas bought an Arrow (180) before his first lesson. Either he's got a much fatter checkbook than I think or it really wasn't that bad on insurance. Although he does still drive the same ole Camry. Hmmm... maybe it's a question of priorities.
 
SOB8604 said:
No doubt, something I'm certainly taking into consideration! Need to get some ideas from the insurance companies on policy prices
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These guys are great, I've used them for my planes which have been more odd ball.

Also consider that your first chunk of hours with be dual anyways, I'd talk to them about if there is anyways that works best for them.

As a CFI, risk wise I really have little concern training from the ground up in a RG, in some ways getting used to swinging gear from the start is actually better.

If you go the PA24 route there's a nice big lever between the seats that move back to forward, really easy and clear way to confirm gear position.


https://airpowerinsurance.com
 
I'll second the suggestion to get a Tiger. They are hard to find. If you can't locate one, buy a v-tail. Pipers fly like bricks.
 
SOB8604 said:
No doubt, something I'm certainly taking into consideration! Need to get some ideas from the insurance companies on policy prices
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500 hours total on 100 retract is not a big help either. Avemco told me that I need 125 hours IN TYPE before the insurance goes down. I pay $1880 on hull value of $48k.
 
zaitcev said:
500 hours total on 100 retract is not a big help either. Avemco told me that I need 125 hours IN TYPE before the insurance goes down. I pay $1880 on hull value of $48k.
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KY%2BJelly.jpg


Lol, dude you need to shop around, you're being taken for a ride!


Check our airpower out of AZ
 
Stan Cooper said:
Buying a retractable gear airplane with only 75 hours will mean a hefty insurance premium. Just sayin'...
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What do you consider hefty? I bought a mooney with less than 100 hours and paid less than $1.5k the first year.
 
This article is five years old, but the premium cost delta between fixed gear and retractable remains about the same.

Efficiency: Rationalizing retracts | AOPA

Typically half again as much for retractable vs similar model with fixed gear for low time pilots with little or no retract time.

"For pilots with lots of retract time the insurance cost delta is less, but it never goes away. A 1,500-hour instrument-rated private pilot with 500 hours in retracts could expect to pay $908 a year in insurance for a fixed-gear 182 and $1,346 for a retract, a 48-percent premium for the RG model."
 
I just got my renewal - about 300 hours total - maybe 150-ish in the Commander - it was about a grand.

Shop around and when you find the right group stay with them. I've been with Aviation Insurance Managers (Steve Neely) and they provided solid rates and great service in getting quotes and pricing. I've not had a claim, so I cannot attest to that side of the equation.

Dean
 
Buy your last Grumman first and get a Tiger.
Best view from a low wing, sporty handling, and retractable canopy makes ingress/egress easy from both sides
 
Stan Cooper said:
This article is five years old, but the premium cost delta between fixed gear and retractable remains about the same.

Efficiency: Rationalizing retracts | AOPA

Typically half again as much for retractable vs similar model with fixed gear for low time pilots with little or no retract time.

"For pilots with lots of retract time the insurance cost delta is less, but it never goes away. A 1,500-hour instrument-rated private pilot with 500 hours in retracts could expect to pay $908 a year in insurance for a fixed-gear 182 and $1,346 for a retract, a 48-percent premium for the RG model."
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Wow, I have about 800 hours total, and pay less than $900 to insure my Mooney . . . Maybe we all just learned why I've never used AOPA Insurance, although I am a member of the Association.
 
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