Checked out in a Cardinal - Fun!

Volitation

Volitation

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jan 16, 2016
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Double Oak, Texas
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Volitation
After training in 172s, I got checked out in a fixed gear Cardinal yesterday. And had a ball! Fun to fly, a little faster, a little slicker, and to me anyway, more complex. There’s more knobs in that thing!

Prop, carb heat, cowl flaps, manual primer, rudder trim, 10 degree flaps on a normal take off - I can see it will take some time to ‘know’ the procedures and where each control is without having to look. For example, a couple of times I put my hand on the mixture when reaching for the prop. Even though I don’t have a lot of experience, I don’t think that would be a good thing. Lol. But, I think it’s a great half step towards complex aircraft. And did I mention it’s a blast to fly? :)

I’d appreciate any thoughts anyone has about flying Cardinals, and about the transition.

Also, I’m setting up ForeFlight performance profile, and the aircraft ASI is in MPH. Is there any reason not to simply convert MPH to Kts for ForeFlight and planning?
 
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Cardinals are great!! We just purchased one in September. Still working out good numbers in the pattern.

What year is the one you’re flying? Is the airspeed in MPH or KTS?
 
Learn your approach numbers then fly those approach numbers. The Cardinal is a very slick plane and doesn’t slow down very well. A few knots over and it is very difficult and even dangerous to land. Never force it onto the runway. A single bounce on touchdown is a go around.
If your airspeed gauge is in mph, stick to mph.
Join the Cardinal Flyers Online, CFO. Cardinalflyersonline.com



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Sorry I can't help much. Sounds like you are in a 177B since you mention CS prop and carb heat. So that would be the straight leg 180hp version.

You get the same view with that 'more aft' wing, and the same big ass doors for egress.

KEEP ON EYE ON THOSE DOORS. There is no wing spar to save you if you park with the wing from tail. Train your passengers well. Also, if it has the little vent windows, be carreful with them. Those are some REALLY expensive repairs you can avoid with a lot of common sense and a little extra attention. [Sure, Texas heat is a mutha, but you'll be up in the cooler air soon so don't risk it]

Enjoy!
 
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Ravioli said:
Sorry I can't help much. Sounds like you are in a 177B since you mention CS prop and carb heat. So that would be the straight leg 180hp version.

You get the same view with that 'more aft' wing, and the same big ass doors for egress.

Enjoy!
Click to expand...

That’s the one. The view is awesome. But a little disconcerting at first when the wing wasn’t where it’s supposed to be!
 
Volitation said:
After training in 172s, I got checked out in a fixed gear Cardinal yesterday. And had a ball! Fun to fly, a little faster, a little slicker, and to me anyway, more complex. There’s more knobs in that thing!

Prop, carb heat, cowl flaps, manual primer, rudder trim, 10 degree flaps on a normal take off - I can see it will take some time to ‘know’ the procedures and where each control is without having to look. For example, a couple of times I put my hand on the mixture when reaching for the prop. Even though I don’t have a lot of experience, I don’t think that would be a good thing. Lol. But, I think it’s a great half step towards complex aircraft. And did I mention it’s a blast to fly? :)

I’d appreciate any thoughts anyone has about flying Cardinals, and about the transition.

Also, I’m setting up ForeFlight performance profile, and the aircraft ASI is in MPH. Is there any reason not to simply convert MPH to Kts for ForeFlight and planning?
Click to expand...

Ok. Yer hooked. I use to own one, a 78 C177B. http://www.cardinalflyers.com/home/_home.php Go here. Lotsa good stuff you can get to without joining. Start with OPS, basic ops. Great stuff about flying them and their pecularities compared to 172's. Enjoy. I wouldn't recommend modifying all your flight planning stuff to MPH. We live a knots world. When it comes to IAS/CAS and Vspeeds and stuff, get the numbers burned in to your memory and beware of catching yourself using knot numbers from previous experience. Believe in the colored arcs on the ASI
 
Volitation said:
That’s the one. The view is awesome. But a little disconcerting at first when the wing wasn’t where it’s supposed to be!
Click to expand...

Run some 'weight and balances.' You have to go out of your way to get aft CG. With just two folk up front you can be on the edge of the forward envelope. The fly nicer if you move it back some. I had a 25 lb bucket of kitty litter I'd throw in the baggage compartment sometimes and a couple gallon jugs of water.
 
Ravioli said:
Sorry I can't help much. Sounds like you are in a 177B since you mention CS prop and carb heat. So that would be the straight leg 180hp version.

You get the same view with that 'more aft' wing, and the same big ass doors for egress.

KEEP ON EYE ON THOSE DOORS. There is no wing spar to save you if you park with the wing from tail. Train your passengers well. Also, if it has the little vent windows, be carreful with them. Those are some REALLY expensive repairs you can avoid with a lot of common sense and a little extra attention. [Sure, Texas heat is a mutha, but you'll be up in the cooler air soon so don't risk it]

Enjoy!
Click to expand...

If there was any wind that was likely to get 'behind' the door I told my passengers 'don't open the door,' I'll come around and let you out. Of course I didn't do this until after landing. Preflight they knew how to open it and GTFO if necessary
 
drjcustis said:
If your airspeed gauge is in mph, stick to mph.
Click to expand...

On this point I agree. And more important if the POH and Checklist your using, you use checklists of course, are in MPH that is all you need to know.

Don't worry about the iTrash, that's for watching videos instead of flying. It can be cubits if you want.
 
Ravioli said:
On this point I agree. And more important if the POH and Checklist your using, you use checklists of course, are in MPH that is all you need to know.

Don't worry about the iTrash, that's for watching videos instead of flying. It can be cubits if you want.
Click to expand...

Rigghhttt. Whatsa cubit. iTrash??????
 
luvflyin said:
Ok. Yer hooked. I use to own one, a 78 C177B. http://www.cardinalflyers.com/home/_home.php Go here. Lotsa good stuff you can get to without joining. Start with OPS, basic ops. Great stuff about flying them and their pecularities compared to 172's. Enjoy. I wouldn't recommend modifying all your flight planning stuff to MPH. We live a knots world. When it comes to IAS/CAS and Vspeeds and stuff, get the numbers burned in to your memory and beware of catching yourself using knot numbers from previous experience. Believe in the colored arcs on the ASI
Click to expand...

That’s what I’m trying to think through.... Your suggestion seems right to me. Get the numbers down cold without over thinking the units the number represent. Then do planning based in kts.

Playing on ForeFlight, it looks like it makes the conversion from a mph aircraft profile to a kts flightplan, but I need to crosscheck with manual planning and compare the results.
 
luvflyin said:
If there was any wind that was likely to get 'behind' the door I told my passengers 'don't open the door,' I'll come around and let you out. Of course I didn't do this until after landing. Preflight they knew how to open it and GTFO if necessary
Click to expand...

I refer to my most frequent passenger @Ravioli's co-pilot as my Air Conditioning Operator. Meaning, she is very proficient at when and how to operate that big ole door to get us max cooling :) Pilot door is secured, and she keeps the other door 'in-hand' (literally) until it is closed and locked at the run-up pad.
 
drjcustis said:
Learn your approach numbers then fly those approach numbers. The Cardinal is a very slick plane and doesn’t slow down very well. A few knots over and it is very difficult and even dangerous to land. Never force it onto the runway. A single bounce on touchdown is a go around.
If your airspeed gauge is in mph, stick to mph.
Join the Cardinal Flyers Online, CFO. Cardinalflyersonline.com



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yeah. Find the thing about the Cardinal Crowhop. You can push forward a "little' to correct a 'ballooning, but if you have your 172 hat on and try to overforce it down you're likely to get aquainted the costs of nose gears, firewalls, props and stuff like that. On second thought, just go around.
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah. Find the thing about the Cardinal Crowhop. You can push forward a "little' to correct a 'ballooning, but if you have your 172 hat on and try to overforce it down you're likely to get aquainted the costs of nose gears, firewalls, props and stuff like that. On second thought, just go around.
Click to expand...

We did 12 landings, it is different than the 172. And it’s a little different sight picture. When I had on speed, it lands well, but be just a little fast and it does float! My perception was the float was manageable with a little patience, with a little less tendency for the bottom to fall out as the speed decreased. Seems to be, for lack of a better word, a ‘flatter’ landing. Am I correct in thinking that’s because it’s a slicker aircraft?

And one thing I forgot to mention - that big stabilator is going to really teach me about trim. When it’s right, it’s light as a feather. Just a little off and it’s an arm wrestler!
 
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Ravioli said:
Sorry I can't help much. Sounds like you are in a 177B since you mention CS prop and carb heat. So that would be the straight leg 180hp version.

You get the same view with that 'more aft' wing, and the same big ass doors for egress.

KEEP ON EYE ON THOSE DOORS. There is no wing spar to save you if you park with the wing from tail. Train your passengers well. Also, if it has the little vent windows, be carreful with them. Those are some REALLY expensive repairs you can avoid with a lot of common sense and a little extra attention. [Sure, Texas heat is a mutha, but you'll be up in the cooler air soon so don't risk it]

Enjoy!
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have an RG. Does it have the oil cooler STC? B's can be a little prone to getting hot. There's been times when I wanted to get right on up to the cooler air but had to speed up and reduce the rate of climb to avoid overheating the engine.
 
Volitation said:
We did 12 landings, it is different than the 172. And it’s a little different sight picture. When I had on speed, it lands well, but be just a little fast and it does float! My perception was the float was manageable with a little patience, with a little less tendency for the bottom to fall out as the speed decreased. Seems to be, for lack of a better word, a ‘flatter’ landing. Am I correct in thinking that’s because it’s a slicker aircraft?
Click to expand...

Slickness is going to have a lot to do with it. If your faster then the wing is 'liftier.' Basic aerodynamics.
Ravioli said:
I think you were kidding, but just in case:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubit

And iTrash is any tablet device used (typically over-used) in flight.

You know these things :)
Click to expand...

Go to about 1:30 or so.
 
I have a 1976 177B. Its airspeed indicator is in knots, though. Great plane. Have fun. Ditto on the cardinal flyers online. It's a must.
 
My biggest transition issue from a 172 to my 74 177 RG was how effective the stabilator is. I was used to pretty big control movements on the 56 172. The cardinal is a fingertip plane for me.

My other issue is it sits a lot lower than my 172 so it was hard for me to avoid flaring a little high. I still battle that one.

Either way I love the RG.

Gary
 
GaryV said:
My biggest transition issue from a 172 to my 74 177 RG was how effective the stabilator is. I was used to pretty big control movements on the 56 172. The cardinal is a fingertip plane for me.

My other issue is it sits a lot lower than my 172 so it was hard for me to avoid flaring a little high. I still battle that one.

Either way I love the RG.

Gary
Click to expand...

Yes! Feels like my butt is going scrape the pavement. Lol.
 
I have a '68 with a 150 hp engine. With the high speed wing I have to hold about 1100 rpm to keep the nose up on landings. One of the best things about the Cardinal is being able to see the runway from downwind to landing.
 
cgrab said:
I have a '68 with a 150 hp engine. With the high speed wing I have to hold about 1100 rpm to keep the nose up on landings. One of the best things about the Cardinal is being able to see the runway from downwind to landing.
Click to expand...
That seems a lot. I'd be a little concerned about having to have power to keep from landing on the nose. You may want to think about putting some 'ballast' back in the baggage compartment and moving the CG back a ways.
 
Love the Cardinals! Saw an RG a few days ago leaving KIXD (there's one for rent out there). My buddy and I were talking about how nice the 177 looks for a high wing. We instantly were comparing the Cessna to his Mooney and my Piper for the rest of the car ride.
 
GaryV said:
My biggest transition issue from a 172 to my 74 177 RG was how effective the stabilator is. I was used to pretty big control movements on the 56 172. The cardinal is a fingertip plane for me.

My other issue is it sits a lot lower than my 172 so it was hard for me to avoid flaring a little high. I still battle that one.

Either way I love the RG.

Gary
Click to expand...
Ditto for me in the 1975 177B. It is an ongoing battle to keep from flaring to high, I came from a Cherokee 180 so I had that going for me as well.
 
Just select MPH in your foreflight when planning.
 
Volitation said:
a couple of times I put my hand on the mixture when reaching for the prop. Even though I don’t have a lot of experience, I don’t think that would be a good thing. Lol.
Click to expand...

Don't worry about this. If you don't immediately recognize that you grabbed the wrong knob, you'll figure it out within a couple seconds. :D
 
Congrats on the upgrade.
Call us when you start flying real Cardinals. (RG) LOL
Seriously, though. If you want more speed, get into the RG version.
Great airplanes, nice visibility but be careful about W&B. The spar is much farther back than on a regular 172 so they sure are nose heavy. Hence the big stabilator.
Enjoy!
 
BigBadLou said:
Congrats on the upgrade.
Call us when you start flying real Cardinals. (RG) LOL
Seriously, though. If you want more speed, get into the RG version.
Click to expand...
If you want more speed, get a Mooney or a Cirrus.

Cardinals are great, stable airplanes, easy to get into and easy to fly. Speed demons they are not, whether FG or RG. They're both faster than a 172 and the RG is nearly as fast as a standard fixed-gear 182... but I think the 182 would still win a race.

Disclaimer: I am a happy (but realistic) owner of a 177RG.
 
azure said:
If you want more speed, get a Mooney or a Cirrus.

Cardinals are great, stable airplanes, easy to get into and easy to fly. Speed demons they are not, whether FG or RG. They're both faster than a 172 and the RG is nearly as fast as a standard fixed-gear 182... but I think the 182 would still win a race.

Disclaimer: I am a happy (but realistic) owner of a 177RG.
Click to expand...
No argument here.
If I wanted to go faster, I would end up paying more for fuel. Speed costs money.
I could always burn double the fuel in my friend's Tur-Bo to go 40% faster. He keeps mentioning they still have an open share in their club. :)

Got a picture, btw?
 
Cardinals slip great, even with full flaps. Hot and hi on final isn't a problem, just learn to slip and bring it in sideways!

drjcustis said:
Learn your approach numbers then fly those approach numbers. The Cardinal is a very slick plane and doesn’t slow down very well. A few knots over and it is very difficult and even dangerous to land. Never force it onto the runway. A single bounce on touchdown is a go around.
If your airspeed gauge is in mph, stick to mph.
Join the Cardinal Flyers Online, CFO. Cardinalflyersonline.com



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
30 degrees of flaps and you do land almost flat. I always found it easier to land with 20 degrees. For final approach, try full nose up trim. It will put the airspeed at about 1.3 vso and it makes for easy stabilator movement.

Volitation said:
We did 12 landings, it is different than the 172. And it’s a little different sight picture. When I had on speed, it lands well, but be just a little fast and it does float! My perception was the float was manageable with a little patience, with a little less tendency for the bottom to fall out as the speed decreased. Seems to be, for lack of a better word, a ‘flatter’ landing. Am I correct in thinking that’s because it’s a slicker aircraft?

And one thing I forgot to mention - that big stabilator is going to really teach me about trim. When it’s right, it’s light as a feather. Just a little off and it’s an arm wrestler!
Click to expand...
 
BigBadLou said:
No argument here.
If I wanted to go faster, I would end up paying more for fuel. Speed costs money.
I could always burn double the fuel in my friend's Tur-Bo to go 40% faster.
Click to expand...

While this is generally true, and is always true for making a particular airplane go faster, it depends on your choice of plane. My carbureted Mooney is ~40% faster than the 172s I trained in and that my friends fly. But on the same trips, I generally burn 10% less fuel.

And before you start, my useful load is larger, my full-fuel payload is higher, and my wife and I carried bags for friends in a 172 when we traveled together because they ran out of room . . .

Enjoy your Cardinal, I've only ever heard good things about them, aside from having to repair the gear retract mechanism (transmission?)
 
Hank S said:
..Enjoy your Cardinal, I've only ever heard good things about them, aside from having to repair the gear retract mechanism (transmission?)
Click to expand...

Hank, the 177RG has a pretty good gear system, and it got better every year. It's the only Cessna retract that has never had an AD on the gear. Not sure how it stacks up against other retract airplanes, but when it comes to RGs of any species, the weak link is usually the gear handle that prefers to stay in the "up" position.
 
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