Flightaware blocking

Scrabo

Scrabo

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
2,313
Location
PHX
Display Name
Display name:
Scrabo
So in a recent local article in the Phoenix area, the author noted " As a word of caution, apparently it’s becoming important that when you are out aviating nowadays, you are going to have to be extra careful of where you are, and what altitude you are flying. It appears that the anti-noise, the animal refuge watchers, and probably the anti-airplane people in general, have discovered the new ADS-B technology and are taking advantage of it. Using inexpensive ADS-B in receivers and iPad or Android apps, they are becoming more aggressive in issuing complaints based on data that is available in the public domain. For sometime now many of the flight schools have received very specific airplane noise complaints, and recently we have become aware of some individuals also receiving these letters of complaint, giving N numbers and altitudes. "

So have any of you registered with the FAA to stop them sharing your ADSB data with 3rd party vendors like Flightaware ?
 
Anyone can gather the data on their own. Nothing you can do to stop people putting up their own antenna and tracking all ADS-B planes over a quite broad area.

That said people can complain but unless you’ve actually broken a rule then there isn’t much that would happen. If anything the ADS-B data here helps you as it would (hopefully) clearly show you were legally flying at a legal altitude in legal airspace. If someone doesn’t like that then they can pound sand.
 
There is always going to be haters,just another way for them to aggravate,the aviation community.
 
On the other hand, when Betty Birkenstock phones FAA to complain, "That Piper Cub just buzzed my compost garden and scared my pet spotted owl," you have proof that you were at a legal altitude.

(You were, weren't you .. ?) :)
 
rocketflyer84 said:
Anyone can gather the data on their own. Nothing you can do to stop people putting up their own antenna and tracking all ADS-B planes over a quite broad area.

That said people can complain but unless you’ve actually broken a rule then there isn’t much that would happen. If anything the ADS-B data here helps you as it would (hopefully) clearly show you were legally flying at a legal altitude in legal airspace. If someone doesn’t like that then they can pound sand.
Click to expand...

Also from the same piece...

“The altitude information the complainants generally provide is expressed in 100 foot increments which would indicate it is information provided by your transponder which provides pressure altitude information in 100 ft. increments for ATC. If you encounter a complaint with an altitude in more precise increments than 100ft., it would indicate they probably got a GPS altitude read out by some other means and it was not an ADS-B transponder return. I found it interesting to learn that this 100 foot altitude increment transmitted by your transponder can have a theoretical maximum possible error of +/- 175 ft. What it means is that it's very important that you fly with the nearest correct barometric pressure reading in your altimeter because your transponder could be saying you are lower than what you think you are based on what your altimeter is indicating. ”
 
ADSBexchange.com - doesn’t matter if you’re on the block list, or if you’re Air Force 1.

If it broadcasts, it shows up.
 
Scrabo said:
Yes they are always collecting the data, you can have the FAA stop disseminating it to third party services.
Click to expand...

Which does nothing for those of us with ADS-B receivers directly feeding places like Flightaware or adsbexchange or even just looking at the data locally.

One other risk is that the NIMBYs probably don't understand pressure altitude and so depending on the barometric pressure on a particular day the ADS-B reported raw altitude data may be way off from your actual MSL altitude.
 
dans2992 said:
ADSBexchange.com - doesn’t matter if you’re on the block list, or if you’re Air Force 1.

If it broadcasts, it shows up.
Click to expand...

That.

Even non ADSB mode S transponders.
 
Time to fly with the transponder off I guess. At least, until every private car is equipped with mandatory, internet-searchable location tracking to put everyone back on a level footing again.

I'd like to crowd-fund a private detective to follow the owner of sites like the one above, and update their exact location 24/7 on a website. I think that would be fair.
 
Get a UAT with anonymous mode in 1200.
 
We probably all have horror stories of airports where things can get ugly for no reason.
Not usually a problem in the Cub.
But becoming a serious problem for almost everything else.
I confess that I shut the transponder off in other planes when I fly into airspaces where I know someone is sitting there waiting to file a fraudulent complaint because they hate airplanes.
I have a list of airports where you never announce your arrival with an "N" number, because before you get out of the plane someone will have called the FAA and told them you did something illegal.
I have one airport where I don't even announce the kind of plane I'm flying, and I don't arrive at pattern altitude. I'm just "the Yellow Space Shuttle", on final for runway 29, very high and dropping fast.
At that particular airport, a big city lawyer built a house directly in the path of the final approach. He wants the airport shut down (it's privately owned) and will tell any lie, and commit any crime to see that he gets his way. A few years ago he threw rocks through 2 of his own windows and claimed a plane flying overhead did it. Fortunately for the guy he accused, you can't open his doors in flight without destroying the airplane. The FAA dismissed the complaint, but never even talked to the lying POS who filed the complaint. He is still at it, every weekend. The Cub is so slow that he has plenty of time to get the binnoculers out and read the "N" number off the side of the plane. I'm told he pays his servants extra to write down "N" numbers.

The abuse of the new ADSB technology is a sterling example of the the Law of Unexpected Consequences.
 
FORANE said:
Get a UAT with anonymous mode in 1200.
Click to expand...

Appears the FAA doesn't like that, as they nit picked one company to death who was offering that safety feature.

Who else has that nowadays?
 
I only have ADS-B In right now, but I see a lot of planes flying around with N numbers showing. I was told by a local avionics shop that you can set your ADS-B Out to show any number or word you want, and I've seen a few planes flying that show a plane, but no info. I don't remember a requirement to show your N-number. Did I just miss it?
 
Lowflynjack said:
I only have ADS-B In right now, but I see a lot of planes flying around with N numbers showing. I was told by a local avionics shop that you can set your ADS-B Out to show any number or word you want, and I've seen a few planes flying that show a plane, but no info. I don't remember a requirement to show your N-number. Did I just miss it?
Click to expand...

I didn't even think about that, is there a reg that ADSB/mode S has to send the N number?
 
James331 said:
Appears the FAA doesn't like that, as they nit picked one company to death who was offering that safety feature.
Click to expand...
Really? Which one? I'm sure you're not talking about NavWorx, whose wounds were almost entirely self-inflicted.
Who else has that nowadays?
Click to expand...
Garmin, UAvionix, Freeflight, probably anyone else who makes a UAT transceiver.
 
DaleB said:
Really? Which one? I'm sure you're not talking about NavWorx, whose wounds were almost entirely self-inflicted.

Garmin, UAvionix, Freeflight, probably anyone else who makes a UAT transceiver.
Click to expand...

Navworx, and yes they did make mistakes, but the reaction of the FAA was waaaaaaaay out of line, heck the FAA couldn't even demonstrate a performance issue, yet companies like aspen who's MFDs are used by many in IMC will straight X all the gyro functions out with but a touch of ice on a pitot tube, a very dangerous failure mode accepted by the FAA, but use the same functioning chip in a ADSB with a slightly different model number and the FAA runs you into the ground, yeah....

And the idea of sending the N number does NOTHING for traffic improvement or "safely" it does nothing aside from decreasing security for the pilot, pax and crew.


I also haven't seen many companies who's transponders automatically hide your N number when set to 1200, so no it's not most UATs.
 
Last edited:
James331 said:
Navworx, and yes they did make mistakes, but the reaction of the FAA was waaaaaaaay out of line, heck the FAA couldn't even demonstrate a performance issue, yet companies like aspen who's MFDs are used by many in IMC will straight X all the gyro functions out with but a touch of ice on a pitot tube, a very dangerous failure mode accepted by the FAA, but use the same functioning chip in a ADSB with a slightly different model number and the FAA runs you into the ground, yeah....


I also haven't seen many companies who's transponders automatically hide your N number when set to 1200, so no it's not most UATs.
Click to expand...
NavWorx KNEW the regs, ignored them, then copped a "Screw you" attitude with the FAA when they got caught. Had the owner not tried to go Rambo on the FAA they could still be in business today. FAA plays hardball, and if you want to manufacture avionics you have to play by their rules or get squashed.

Transponder != UAT. No Mode S transponder can include anonymous/privacy mode, but all of the UAT transceivers I have looked at support it. Mode S transponders always transmit their ICAO code and flight ID. UAT devices do not have to, they can use a random ID when flying VFR. It's one reason, though a minor one, that when I equip for ADS-B OUT, it will be with a UAT device and we'll keep our Mode C transponder. Will I use anonymous mode? Probably not, I really don't care, but it's there.
 
DaleB said:
NavWorx KNEW the regs, ignored them, then copped a "Screw you" attitude with the FAA when they got caught. Had the owner not tried to go Rambo on the FAA they could still be in business today. FAA plays hardball, and if you want to manufacture avionics you have to play by their rules or get squashed.

Transponder != UAT. No Mode S transponder can include anonymous/privacy mode, but all of the UAT transceivers I have looked at support it. Mode S transponders always transmit their ICAO code and flight ID. UAT devices do not have to, they can use a random ID when flying VFR. It's one reason, though a minor one, that when I equip for ADS-B OUT, it will be with a UAT device and we'll keep our Mode C transponder. Will I use anonymous mode? Probably not, I really don't care, but it's there.
Click to expand...

What ADSB boxes automatically go into anonymous mode when set to 1200?
 
James331 said:
What ADSB boxes automatically go into anonymous mode when set to 1200?
Click to expand...
From the few I have both installed and read about they all have a setup menu where anonymous mode in 1200 may be selected. thereafter anytime 1200 is selected the aircraft id will be hidden. I have read though that the garmin UAT's delay the anonymity for a moment after 1200 is selected.
 
FORANE said:
From the few I have both installed and read about they all have a setup menu where anonymous mode in 1200 may be selected. thereafter anytime 1200 is selected the aircraft id will be hidden. I have read though that the garmin UAT's delay the anonymity for a moment after 1200 is selected.
Click to expand...

Which I don't understand nor want, if I'm 1200 I don't want to be announcing every time I fire my plane up, there is no way that helps my safety or security, and I don't want to fork thousands of dollars to be less safe and secure.
 
James331 said:
Which I don't understand nor want, if I'm 1200 I don't want to be announcing every time I fire my plane up, there is no way that helps my safety or security, and I don't want to fork thousands of dollars to be less safe and secure.
Click to expand...
You only need to go into the setup menu one time after installing to set anonymous mode. thereafter every time you fire up you will be anonymous. I don't see the concern, and I agree with you 100 % . I too want to be anonymous.
 
James331 said:
What ADSB boxes automatically go into anonymous mode when set to 1200?
Click to expand...
Any of the UAT solutions I have looked at will do it, if you configure them to do so. Specifically, I know that uAvionix (both skyBeacon and echoUAT), Garmin GDL 82, Freeflight RANGR, and Levil Beacon will do it. There may be more, those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. You can believe me or not; the documentation is right there on line.
 
I was talking to the point of some of these systems sending the data once on start up before going to anonymous mode.
 
James331 said:
I was talking to the point of some of these systems sending the data once on start up before going to anonymous mode.
Click to expand...
News to me. Unless of course you are squeaking something other than 1200 at startup.
 
FORANE said:
News to me. Unless of course you are squeaking something other than 1200 at startup.
Click to expand...

"If the option is available, it can be enabled during the installation. When the aircraft is on the ground and during the first few minutes of flight (so ATC can establish a track), the 978 UAT sends out the ICAO code and Flight ID. After that, as long as the squawk is set to "1200," the 978 UAT automatically scrambles"
http://www.freeflightsystems.com/ne...d-privacy-not-all-datalinks-are-created-equal





Scrabo said:
And not very good at it either.... don't think our little PA-28-235 has that sort of range.

View attachment 59753

View attachment 59753
Click to expand...

Looks like someone's running LOP
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top