Why I love aviation...(another long one!)

LDJones

Touchdown! Greaser!
Gone West
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Jonesy
Like many of you, I’ve been captivated by aviation since a very young age. The wonder of flight still amazes me as much today as that first airplane ride a half century ago.

But beyond the pure joy of flight, I’ve realized I also enjoy the almost limitless opportunities to expand your knowledge and the chance to challenge yourself with new achievements.

From the very start, aviation gives you milemarkers....the stair-step achievements of that first flight, then the first landing without your instructor touching the controls, then your first solo, then passing your knowledge test, then your first solo cross country, then your checkride.

Once rated, it’s that first flight with a spouse or parent or child. Then that first “really long” cross country of a few hundred miles to a vacation or family event. Then maybe crossing half a continent for the first time. Each one broadening your horizons and offering new challenges

About the time you tackle those you ended up grounded by weather for a few days and the instrument rating becomes the next goal and the cycle continues. High-performance endorsement. Tailwheel endorsement. Multi-engine rating.

After that the commercial license is there for you just to prove you can do it. And if you can do that, you can probably do it from the right seat and explain it all, so why not get your CFI? Even if you never intend to teach, it’s a worthy achievement. And with each of these there’s a knowledge component and a motor skill component. After that there’s the Double-I and MEI. Then the ATP. Then seaplanes. Helicopters? Balloons?

There are never-ending challenges available to you in aviation.

Some of you have followed my airline saga (”When Dreams come true...”) that started at age 57...something unheard of just a few years ago. But aviation offers endless surprises!

Last Friday I checked off another personal challenge: My “Gold Seal” CFI designation. It’s been on my personal bucket list for a long time, but having never been a career flight instructor it seemed a pretty remote possibility. With the transition to 121 flying three years ago I’ve had more time to flight instruct on days off.

The Gold Seal requires ten checkride endorsements in a 24 month period with an 80% Pass rate on the first attempt. I realized recently I had just signed off my 11th student in 18 months and all had passed on their first attempt except for one private student who had a bad case of nerves and got balled up in the weight and balance questions during the oral. So I had a 91% pass rate!

I called my local FSDO to find out what I needed to do. He pulled up my records, then said “Yep, looks like you have everything except your Advanced Ground Instructor rating.”

Doh!! How did I miss that requirement? I had my Basic Ground Instructor and Instrument Ground, so never gave much thought to the Advanced Ground.

So, another aviation milestone to be achieved! I figured I had a good shot at being able to bag a 70 on the test, but then thought that might be a little embarrassing to show up at the FSDO with a barely passing score to get my Gold Seal designation.

More study was needed. Thankfully I was in the midst of a nice, long paid vacation while I was awaiting the next phase of my Captain upgrade training so I bought a review course and hit the books.

It turned out to be a worthwhile review of a lot of things I really haven’t had to think much about for a long time, as well as some archaic minutiae (calculating distance from a VOR based on time between radials...an interesting academic exercise in the age of GPS!)

After a week of review I finally decided I didn’t want to study anymore and was willing to accept whatever score I could muster. I spent 2:15 of the 2:30 allotted for the 100 question exam. When all was said and done I had a 90%. I can live with that.

So last Friday I made the trek up to the FSDO to make my AGI official, gain my Gold Seal designation and then they renewed my CFI for another two years based on my training record. It was another moment of personal satisfaction as I enter my fifth decade of flying.
 
Congrats on the Gold Seal. I'll never get it as I don't have the ground instructor stuff, and won't do it now anyway. Glad you're still enjoying it. I'm getting back into instructing now and I'm reviving my love for aviation.
 
Congrats on the Gold Seal. I'll never get it as I don't have the ground instructor stuff, and won't do it now anyway. Glad you're still enjoying it. I'm getting back into instructing now and I'm reviving my love for aviation.

Never say never! It might surprise you how quickly it can happen if you enjoy getting back into instructing. The AGI wasn’t too bad to prepare for and that’s the only one you need.
 
I took the test for the AGI but I never turned it in. Wonder if it is too late.??
 
I took the test for the AGI but I never turned it in. Wonder if it is too late.??

Good question. I’m sure you’d have at least two years like any written. Not sure if a longer period is allowed on a test that doesn’t have a checkride. Call the FSDO and ask.
 
It's been 24,25 years ago. I still have the test results page I was supposed to turn in to the FSDO. Not really worth it to me right now, but since I have a little extra time on my hands recently I may look into it.
 
Congrats, Loren! Love following your adventures!
 
It's been 24,25 years ago. I still have the test results page I was supposed to turn in to the FSDO. Not really worth it to me right now, but since I have a little extra time on my hands recently I may look into it.

I'm sure it's no good as they're for 2years. Just get off your lazy ass & back in the books and take it again! :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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At 61 going for my PPL your post inspires me. I love hearing from other older folks that got into it late.
Very impressive too, what you have accomplished. Gives me lots of hope. Are you 57 now or started this journey at 57?

I have to admit, at first I read that start of the other paragraph as "that first fight with your spouse or..." And jumped ahead into the thought "yeah...might be a tough fight to get them in the plane with me as pilot after I get my PPL" but then saw my mistake :)

I look forward to a number of the things you have already accomplished. Congratulations!
 
At 61 going for my PPL your post inspires me. I love hearing from other older folks that got into it late.
Very impressive too, what you have accomplished. Gives me lots of hope. Are you 57 now or started this journey at 57?

I have to admit, at first I read that start of the other paragraph as "that first fight with your spouse or..." And jumped ahead into the thought "yeah...might be a tough fight to get them in the plane with me as pilot after I get my PPL" but then saw my mistake :)

I look forward to a number of the things you have already accomplished. Congratulations!

It’s never too late! My very first student 38 years ago was a 65 year old accountant that walked in and said “Can you teach an old dog new tricks?” We both enjoyed the training process and he did great! I’m currently teaching a 65 year old gal. She’s having a ball! She also got 97% on her written, one of the highest scores I’ve seen in a long while.

To answer your question, I’ve been flying for 40 years, but stumbled into the 121 world three years ago next month because of a comment on here. I was 57 at the time, 60 now as I upgrade to Captain. It’s been a fun ride!

(The story of my 121 adventure:
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/when-dreams-come-true-long.79490/)
 
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I'm sure it's no good as they're for 2years. Just get off your lazy ass back in the books and take it again! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Looking at the test score sheet. It has no expiration date like the test scores for something that needs a checkride.

And I don't take test. That is what I pay people to do for me....
 
Congrats Loren! Nice to hear from you again.
 
It’s never too late! My very first student 38 years ago was a 65 year old accountant that walked in and said “Can you teach and old dog new tricks?” We both enjoyed the training process and he did great! I’m currently teaching a 65 year old gal. She’s having a ball! She also got 97% on her written, one of the highest scores I’ve seen in a long while.

To answer your question, I’ve been flying for 40 years, but stumbled into the 121 world three years ago next month because of a comment on here. I was 57 at the time, 60 now as I upgrade to Captain. It’s been a fun ride!

(The story of my 121 adventure:
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/when-dreams-come-true-long.79490/)

Thanks for the reply! Will check out your blog! My big regret was I didn't remember to check if I could start learning earlier, when I could have. Had given up on flying lessons as too expensive.
I have always wanted to to, and grew up as a little kid passenger with my dad.

I regret that I don't have time enough to be a really great pilot (if I ever had that chance) but am still very happy to be doing it now. I'll be the best I can. Doing all I can to be that. But will never have the experience of being a pilot for years and years. Like most of us, I can't exactly explain what it is about flying, but definitely a great deal of it is what you mention, the learning and challenge. But then that something else too...that feeling.

As I say, grew up flying with my dad, as a little kid and then later visiting him he would take me up in his 172. So last year when I took my discovery flight, as soon as we took off I just can't explain the fantastic feeling I had again after so many years. The instructor took a photo of me after I took control on that first flight and I see it in the photo even how happy and delighted I am to be in a small plane again.

And as you wrote, each mile mark each challenge, is just both exciting and fun. Why oh why did it take me so long? Oh well, you have to start somewhere and I'm here now. It's just to find out how far I can go. But man...it is so perfect being in control of a plane, up there, and manage to do a maneuver right. Or just fly.

Definitely will check out your web page!
 
And I don't take test. That is what I pay people to do for me....

Dang never thought about that. Ahh well, I passed them all anyway.

That cheatin' anyway! Looky here:

§61.37 Knowledge tests: Cheating or other unauthorized conduct.
(a) An applicant for a knowledge test may not:

(1) Copy or intentionally remove any knowledge test;

(2) Give to another applicant or receive from another applicant any part or copy of a knowledge test;

(3) Give assistance on, or receive assistance on, a knowledge test during the period that test is being given;

(4) Take any part of a knowledge test on behalf of another person; this is known as the Zeldman clause.
 
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I did all ground instructor ratings after realizing there was no reason not to while you’re all “studied up” for the writtens.

I know a 40 year instructor who’s studying for his AGI because he’d like to do what Loren just did, add the Gold Seal. He says it’s been interesting going through studying for a written after all of this time. Lots of stuff has changed over the years.
 
What exactly does having a gold seal do for a CFI? Is it just bragging rights or ammo to demand more money per hour? That last part about the money was a joke.
 
What exactly does having a gold seal do for a CFI? Is it just bragging rights or ammo to demand more money per hour? That last part about the money was a joke.

It certifies that you are a high-quality instructor.

You can get certified as a super-high-quality instructor if you get your ATP too.
 
You can get certified as a super-high-quality instructor if you get your ATP too.

Whoa! Where'd you hear that? I'm an ATP and have never been referred to a "super high quality" instructor. You have a source for that?
 
What's next, super duper high quality? Is this add on title an FAA thing or does it come from somewhere else? I'm not knocking the title at all but it seems to me if the FAA says someone is good enough to be a CFI, at least to me that would mean they're a high quality instructor.
 
What's next, super duper high quality? Is this add on title an FAA thing or does it come from somewhere else? I'm not knocking the title at all but it seems to me if the FAA says someone is good enough to be a CFI, at least to me that would mean they're a high quality instructor.

OP explained it in the first post Tim. As you say, whether a CFI has Gold Seal or not, doesn't mean that Gold Seal CFI is any more special than a CFI who doesn't have the designation.
 
What's next, super duper high quality? Is this add on title an FAA thing or does it come from somewhere else? I'm not knocking the title at all but it seems to me if the FAA says someone is good enough to be a CFI, at least to me that would mean they're a high quality instructor.

They come from somewhere else...Jim221 or something like that.
 
I wish ATC had cool meaningless titles. Hell after 26 years without killing anyone I should be a unobtainium or at least a platinum seal controller. :)
 
It certifies that you are a high-quality instructor.

You can get certified as a super-high-quality instructor if you get your ATP too.

It certifies you WERE ONCE a high quality instructor. It doesn’t have to be renewed and you can technically suck after you meet the requirements one time. :)

You can hold a Gold Seal twenty years and renew via FIRC that entire time and never pass a student again, after you meet the requirements once, and you’d still have it.

:stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot:

Plenty of part time instructors will never hit the 24 month 10 student mark in a lifetime of part-timing but may have just as good of a pass rate or better. They’d be no lower quality of instructor for their students. Just less quantity of students.

But... I don’t think the Aviation world is quite ready for the real-time scoreboard that could be possible with modern technology... nor the inevitable unintended consequences of same.

Think about THAT idea for a minute... and cringe.

A real time scoreboard for every instructor and every test endorsement. Yikes.

Could be done... computers and the internet make it possible...

:) :) :)
 
What exactly does having a gold seal do for a CFI? Is it just bragging rights or ammo to demand more money per hour? That last part about the money was a joke.

For me, just the personal satisfaction. My rates aren’t changing.
 
It certifies you WERE ONCE a high quality instructor. It doesn’t have to be renewed and you can technically suck after you meet the requirements one time. :)

That’s the real reason I got it. I want to dramatically lower the standard for my instruction from here on out. I’ll be phoning it in with a Gold Seal!!
 
That’s the real reason I got it. I want to dramatically lower the standard for my instruction from here on out. I’ll be phoning it in with a Gold Seal!!

ROFLMAO!!!

Yeah right... you know we don’t believe you on THAT one, Jonesy!

My point was, it’s not something you renew, so it CAN be an indication of the distant past, depending on circumstances.

I’ve also found it interesting that the “chief pilot of a school” route says you have to have administered 20 graduation checkrides, but it removes the 80% pass rate.

That one gets a “WTF?” from me... LOL. It essentially says if you got good enough to be chief pilot at an approved school, and you administer tests to potential graduates, you’re done. They don’t have to pass. Puppy mill mass-quantity stuff. Ugh. Not cool.

If I ever get busy enough ever to someday apply for it, I’ll apply. It’s nice wallpaper and they really do change the color of your FAA logo on your green plastic, to... yellow. It’s not really gold, per se.

But hell, it looks neat, and it’s another thing to put on the business card. Free marketing fodder for us engineering types who hate coming up with flowery things to say about ourselves.

:) :) :)
 
I called my local FSDO to find out what I needed to do. He pulled up my records, then said “Yep, looks like you have everything except your Advanced Ground Instructor rating.”

Doh!! How did I miss that requirement? I had my Basic Ground Instructor and Instrument Ground, so never gave much thought to the Advanced Ground.

So have they changed the requirements for Gold Seal or was the FSDO just wrong? According to AC 61-65 the requirement is:

“The flight instructor must hold a ground instructor certificate with an advanced or instrument ground instructor rating”

According to the AC you met the requirements with your IGI and AGI wasn’t needed.
 
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GoldSeal_drinking.jpeg
 
So have they changed the requirements for Gold Seal or was the FSDO just wrong? According to AC 61-65 the requirement is:

“The flight instructor must hold a ground instructor certificate with an advanced or instrument ground instructor rating”

According to the AC you met the requirements with your IGI and AGI wasn’t needed.

You know, I was pretty sure I had met the cert requirements way back when I first looked at it. I didn’t go back to the AC once the Inspector said that’s what I needed. Oh, well. One more milestone crossed (and a couple hundred bucks spent on aviation!)
 
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It certifies you WERE ONCE a high quality instructor. It doesn’t have to be renewed and you can technically suck after you meet the requirements one time. :)

You can hold a Gold Seal twenty years and renew via FIRC that entire time and never pass a student again, after you meet the requirements once, and you’d still have it.

:stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot:

Plenty of part time instructors will never hit the 24 month 10 student mark in a lifetime of part-timing but may have just as good of a pass rate or better. They’d be no lower quality of instructor for their students. Just less quantity of students.

But... I don’t think the Aviation world is quite ready for the real-time scoreboard that could be possible with modern technology... nor the inevitable unintended consequences of same.

Think about THAT idea for a minute... and cringe.

A real time scoreboard for every instructor and every test endorsement. Yikes.

Could be done... computers and the internet make it possible...

:) :) :)

Sorry, I thought it would be more obvious it was a joke. I have said in the past that I don't think it means anything when other members have said you should only use gold seal & atp CFIs.
 
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Sorry, I thought it would be more obvious it was a joke. I have said in the past that I don't think it means anything when other members have said you should only is gold seal & atp CFIs.

Again, what is an ATP CFI? No such thing. ATPs can teach other ATPs at an airline but they don't call it ATP CFI.
 
Being you're not familiar, most of those teaching at the airline don't have a CFI. So just admit you don't know.

Admit I don't know what?

I never made any assertions about how many ATPs are CFIs, so putting words in my mouth and then calling me ignorant is preposterous.
 
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Admit I don't know what?

I never made any assertions about how many ATPs are CFIs, so putting words in my mouth and then calling me ignorant is preposterous.

No you wrote earlier ATP CFI is a super duper CFI in your post, or whatever you called it. You seem to jump on other folks but can't take criticism yourself.
 
ATP CFI is a super duper CFI in your post, or whatever you called it. You seem to jump on other folks but can't take criticism yourself.

I wrote "You can get certified as a super-high-quality instructor if you get your ATP too."

It was obviously a joke, because there is no such thing as certifying someone as a "super-high-quality" instructor.

What are you trying to criticize me for? If you think my joke isn't funny, then I accept your criticism. But that doesn't seem like it. I really have no idea what you're on about.
 
I wish ATC had cool meaningless titles. Hell after 26 years without killing anyone I should be a unobtainium or at least a platinum seal controller. :)

I'll give ya an 'Aluminum Seal of Approval'! How's that!?
 
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