Inexpensive but full-featured MFD in a crowded panel

Ryan F.

Ryan F.

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Ryan Ferguson 1974
Hello everyone,

I've craved an MFD for a while now in my Twin Comanche. I've posted pics of my panel before, but here goes:

yrynn5m.jpg


I've got a G5 HSI going in sometime in March, and at some point shortly thereafter the EDM-760 is getting upgraded to the 790 which will cover two holes.

But what I really want to add is some kind of an MFD.

Note the space directly above the KMA-24 audio panel (also due to be replaced ultimately, but probably not til later in the year.) It's just a little bit too short for it, but I'd like to place an Aera 660 there. They're touchscreen, they look pretty much just like the GTN650 interface, and they can be wired up to receive the GTN650 flight plan automatically. I probably wouldn't mess with it too much, just use it for a bigger picture of weather and traffic, and leave the GTN650's screen on the Default Nav page, which is usually what I've got it set to.

Any thoughts to how I might be able to get a glareshield modified and/or fabricated to accept a small vertical "bulge" to accomodate this:

index_2_5.jpg

The page is here:

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/ai...x0P-H3uDUBTNYzz4FPyfymZA33j3LpNBoCy1EQAvD_BwE

I think it'd be a really nice upgrade for pennies on the dollar, a "big screen" (ish) MFD with real utility for just a few bucks installed.

Any thoughts?
 
I want that same setup though an easier path to getting it done.
 

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Ryan F. said:
Hello everyone,

I've craved an MFD for a while now in my Twin Comanche. I've posted pics of my panel before, but here goes:

yrynn5m.jpg


I've got a G5 HSI going in sometime in March, and at some point shortly thereafter the EDM-760 is getting upgraded to the 790 which will cover two holes.

But what I really want to add is some kind of an MFD.

Note the space directly above the KMA-24 audio panel (also due to be replaced ultimately, but probably not til later in the year.) It's just a little bit too short for it, but I'd like to place an Aera 660 there. They're touchscreen, they look pretty much just like the GTN650 interface, and they can be wired up to receive the GTN650 flight plan automatically. I probably wouldn't mess with it too much, just use it for a bigger picture of weather and traffic, and leave the GTN650's screen on the Default Nav page, which is usually what I've got it set to.

Any thoughts to how I might be able to get a glareshield modified and/or fabricated to accept a small vertical "bulge" to accomodate this:

index_2_5.jpg

The page is here:

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/airgizmos-aera-660-panel-dock.html?utm_source=google_shopping&m=simple&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Avionics+&+Radios&adpos=1o1&creative=74939041702&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&mrkgcl=596&mrkgadid=3208669401&rkg_id=h-603bab5014c8d5fee026a3e7550cdc0d_t-1516379967&gclid=CjwKCAiAy4bTBRAvEiwAFtatHIo33tl1yvzH07PQPFfbELx0P-H3uDUBTNYzz4FPyfymZA33j3LpNBoCy1EQAvD_BwE

I think it'd be a really nice upgrade for pennies on the dollar, a "big screen" (ish) MFD with real utility for just a few bucks installed.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
just a thought, before you spring for the other G5 and the engine monitor upgrade... what about the certified Dynon Skyview that's coming? 25k installed and you could sell a lot of what you have, so maybe you'd be net 20 for
MFD/PFD
autopilot
engine monitor
ADSB in/out
etc

http://www.dynonavionics.com/certified/
 
MIFlyer said:
just a thought, before you spring for the other G5 and the engine monitor upgrade... what about the certified Dynon Skyview that's coming? 25k installed and you could sell a lot of what you have, so maybe you'd be net 20 for
MFD/PFD
autopilot
engine monitor
ADSB in/out
etc

http://www.dynonavionics.com/certified/
Click to expand...
25k installed is what they are hoping. I would be interested to see what people end up paying in real world

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Exactly what I have going on with my 796 and I love it! The 650 and all the other avionics fit snuggly in the center stack, and then I have a 796 off to the right where I can pull up all kinds of additional information to look at. I rarely have to touch the 650 really. I figure the less I touch it, the longer it will last!! lol :D
 
WannFly said:
25k installed is what they are hoping. I would be interested to see what people end up paying in real world

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
i feel like it's one of those where it might be BETTER to be an early adopter where they do the install and have the hotline to their engineering team to work it out, vs going to your local avionics shop a year later.

since it's a wholesale replacement of almost every instrument, it might be simpler to install in a way because there's no worrying about adapting between a million existing solutions.

and honestly, a plane with the stuff Ryan has already might net him MORE than $5k by selling the old stuff.
 
I am in the process of having a garmin 796 installed as Yankee suggested. Runs on aircraft power but has a battery for back-up. The 796 has many features including maps, weather, traffic, geo taxi diagrams, XM (optional), etc. I think it is a great low cost MFD.
 
I’ve seen a few aircraft,equipped with the 796. Seems to do the job,and you can take it with you.
 
MIFlyer said:
just a thought, before you spring for the other G5 and the engine monitor upgrade... what about the certified Dynon Skyview that's coming? 25k installed and you could sell a lot of what you have, so maybe you'd be net 20 for
MFD/PFD
autopilot
engine monitor
ADSB in/out
etc

http://www.dynonavionics.com/certified/
Click to expand...


That!

You're nuts if you're spending money on avionics right now, I'd give it a couple years, something like the skyview, that's a entire fully featured panel in one shot (for the most part).
 
Not sure if you have the room but I love my GMX200 (fits your Garmin theme). I saw one listed on eBay for $3100.
 
Thanks, everyone... regarding Dynon, no I'm not interested in that. It's a very nice complete panel retrofit for an airplane which is starting at ground zero from an upgrade perspective. But I'm way too far down the road with what I've got to reverse course on that now, and besides I really don't want to put all my eggs in Dynon's basket... I really prefer Garmin's stuff, the interface is better, I like knowing Garmin isn't going anywhere, etc. To each his own, but that's my own...

I don't think it's a crazy time to be spending money on avionics. In fact I think now IS the time... I got the GTN650 while it was still price-competing with older 430Ws, I got the G5s at the same price they'll be for awhile, there won't be much movement if any on the GTX345... I like my timing! Adding these final steps will put my panel at the top of the heap for what I'm spending, and it'll last me a good 10+ years, just like my last round of updates gave me. And best yet, I'm getting good prices on stuff that I'll be using for a very long time.

The PA-30 panel is too small to go crazy with a big MFD, so that's why I'm interested in this approach. Including the cost of the Aera 660, the mount, and installation (including connecting to power source) probably won't exceed $1500, I reckon... the cost of custom fabricating a new glareshield to fit? Who knows. I'm afraid to guess. Was hoping for some insight on that, but I'm thinking it could increase the cost of the installation by another $750 at the end of the day.

I put a little thought into swapping my GTX345 for a 345R and remoting the transponder. That would save me some center stack real estate and make it plenty big enough for the Aera 660 mount without the glareshield issue. Not sure what the total cost of that swap would be...

Thanks for the discussion! Keep 'em coming...
 
Radar Contact said:
Not sure if you have the room but I love my GMX200 (fits your Garmin theme). I saw one listed on eBay for $3100.
Click to expand...

That'd be sweet. Looks like it only talks to the 400/500 series, though. (I have a GTN 650)
 
Baron62 said:
I am in the process of having a garmin 796 installed as Yankee suggested. Runs on aircraft power but has a battery for back-up. The 796 has many features including maps, weather, traffic, geo taxi diagrams, XM (optional), etc. I think it is a great low cost MFD.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Too wide for the center stack though, no? 8" wide?

Great for other spots in the panel...
 
Ryan F. said:
That'd be sweet. Looks like it only talks to the 400/500 series, though. (I have a GTN 650)
Click to expand...
It can talk to 650 is what I read in beeachtalk, but it can only see 345 as a gdl 90... wish Garmin would update the software... which I am pretty sure ain't gonna happen

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
WannFly said:
It can talk to 650 is what I read in beeachtalk, but it can only see 345 as a gdl 90... wish Garmin would update the software... which I am pretty sure ain't gonna happen

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'd be interested if it could talk to the GTN650, and if it sees the 345 as a GDL 90 what's the downside if the ADS-B data comes through?

But the literature doesn't seem to indicate this, I've only looked into this briefly though.
 
Ryan F. said:
I'd be interested if it could talk to the GTN650, and if it sees the 345 as a GDL 90 what's the downside if the ADS-B data comes through?

But the literature doesn't seem to indicate this, I've only looked into this briefly though.
Click to expand...
Can't post the link here since I am on phone, go to garmin.com and look up 650, in the I interface page it lists gmx 200 as compatible display. There is a pirep on beachtalk on gmx 200 and 345, where there is ample discussion on what u get, basically traffic and FIS-B wx. But someone mentioned the wx graphical data is not overlayed on the map, but it is on its dedicated page, I can't confirm this. I have gmx 200 with gdl 90, and I don't get graphical wx, but that's a gdl 90 thing. Love the gmx and keeping it if I can when I upgrade my GPS to 21st century... but my 480 and gmx combo is awesome

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Very interesting... thanks! I'll give that some thought.

The height of the display (5") may be a problem vs. the Aera 660's, but it would be nice to have a true "budget" MFD in the airplane. Probably the only way to make this happen would be to swap out my GTX345 for the 345R as I mentioned. Hmm...
 
I have replaced the Garmin GPSmap 396 in my Zodiac with an Aera 660 using the Airgizmo panel mount, and am very pleased with it. The panel space is the same as for the 396, but the LCD screen is significantly larger (about the same size as the KMD150 in my 172) thanks to the touch screen eliminating the 396 hard keys. The screen is also much more readable in bright sunlight than the 396 screen. I installed the GDL 39R ADS-B receiver to provide ADS-B IN displayed on the 660.

Next step (in March) is installing the GDL 82 for ADS-B OUT.

n601ke%20panel%20sm_zpsy5lvfllj.jpg
 
Stan Cooper said:
I have replaced the Garmin GPSmap 396 in my Zodiac with an Aera 660 using the Airgizmo panel mount, and am very pleased with it. The panel space is the same as for the 396, but the LCD screen is significantly larger (about the same size as the KMD150 in my 172) thanks to the touch screen eliminating the 396 hard keys. The screen is also much more readable in bright sunlight than the 396 screen. I installed the GDL 39R ADS-B receiver to provide ADS-B IN displayed on the 660.

Next step (in March) is installing the GDL 82 for ADS-B OUT.

n601ke%20panel%20sm_zpsy5lvfllj.jpg
Click to expand...

Looks phenomenal, Stan.

I'm hard-pressed to think of any real advantage a traditional (high-priced) MFD panel installation has over this. It's an outstanding combo especially considering the integration between the Aera 660 and the GTN series.
 
Ryan F. said:
Looks phenomenal, Stan.

I'm hard-pressed to think of any real advantage a traditional (high-priced) MFD panel installation has over this. It's an outstanding combo especially considering the integration between the Aera 660 and the GTN series.
Click to expand...
That was my reasoning, too. BTW, I was born and raised in Jacksonville and used to fly out of Herlong in the sixties.
 
Ryan F. said:
Looks phenomenal, Stan.

I'm hard-pressed to think of any real advantage a traditional (high-priced) MFD panel installation has over this. It's an outstanding combo especially considering the integration between the Aera 660 and the GTN series.
Click to expand...
Very honestly, other than the higher price tag, more money in installing and even more money maintaining the nav data... I honestly don't feel there is something u will be missing with the aera. Now if u have other stuff that provides on board radar and al8ke, that's a diff story

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Well, some thoughts on all of this...

I talked with my avionics guy a bit... it's going to be pretty hard to pull this off without some fairly major modifications to the panel. There's just not enough room for everything without cutting up the panel and moving some things around.

I have these iPads floating around the cockpit, and on a yoke mount, and those are big screens with all of the same stuff. They even sync with the GTN 650 via the FS 510.

Trying to decide if I should just be happy with that and leave things the way the are, or keep messing with this. 5 years ago I'd have been ecstatic with this synced iPad setup.

One of the other concerns I have is building just the right space for the dock for the 660 or the opening for the GMX-200, and then moving into a device of different dimensions at some point in the future. Squeezing it all in, it comes down to a matter of a half-inch here or there, space-wise. Gets really tight! Hard to believe I won't be going through these revolutions again, somewhere down the road. Ugh.

The cost of the GMX-200 data is worth considering too. Won't be cheap, and I hate subscription costs, it's the wallet drain that never stops, even if you're not flying. Also, I talked to an owner of this MFD who said that you can't get terrain/obstacle updates for it anymore unless you physically remove the unit and send it in to Garmin. He's a pretty knowledgeable owner, so I assume that's true. It's an old unit at this point. I generally don't like starting out with an old piece of tech, as it usually doesn't save money in the long run. Installation costs, support, residual value, etc. Not to mention the fact that it's not the latest and greatest anymore anyway.

For the entire tenure of my ownership of this airplane I've always focused on upgrades that improved safety or utility and have studiously avoided vanity upgrades. For example, I can't justify the JPI EDM-960 even though I drool over the darn thing. It doesn't give me any new capability, improve reliability, or reduce costs. My MAP and RPM gauges have worked fine for 18 years and they're inexpensive to replace if they do break, and I already have an engine monitor.

I don't mind treating myself a bit if it comes down to it, but all of these other mods really enhanced what I could do with the airplane. Since I upgraded the panel, I can fly LPV approaches, I have ADS-B In and Out built seamlessly into the airplane, and stopped relying on my vacuum system for attitude information. Upgrading from a vacuum DG to EHSI will be another safety and reliability upgrade; now I'll only be relying on the vacuum system for backup attitude information and to drive my autopilot.

Any thoughts from the peanut gallery? Main reason I want an MFD is to have the moving map display in my scan. The 650's screen sort of works for that, but it's small, and I prefer leaving it on the Default Nav page. So as a result I'm constantly looking down at my iPad. At work I have approach plates right on the MFD, along with anything else I want to see. It's a really comfortable way to fly, but I honestly can't say the plane's utility, safety or reliability will be enhanced by installing some kind of MFD in the panel. Will I like it and enjoy it? Sure, but I'm having a hard time believing that it fits into those categories.
 
About the terrain and obstacle database of GMX200. I reached out to jepp who said Garmin provides that. I reached out to Garmin, who said Jepp will provide that. So there is that. A part of me wants to rip out both gmx 200 and 480 and put in a 750 there.... but alas ... It's a dream...an expensive one

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
I'll double check but I was pretty sure that my terrain and obstacle data updates from my jepp subscription.
 
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