Instrument Helicopter to Instrument FW??

tfitch03

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tfitch03
Are there any CFII's out there that know exactly what it takes to get my fixed wing instrument ticket if I am already a instrument rated in a helicopter? I have my private fixed wing rating already.

Everything I am reading is kind of vague and I want to make sure I am interpreting it correctly.
 
Here's my take.

This is not an additional aircraft rating, so it does not fall under 61.63 (which is typically used to drastically cut the hour requirements for adding a category or class).

So it falls under 61.65 ("Instrument Rating requirements"). To break it down, you have to:

- receive ground training
- receive flight training
- get an endorsement to take the practical test
- NOT have to take a knowledge test (a7)
- pass the checkride

It then goes on to say what type of topics must be discussed in ground and flight training.

But then the big one - "(d) aeronautical experience for the instrument-airplane rating"
- 50 hours XC PIC, 10 of those in an airplane (rest can be in helicopters or airships or whatever)
- 40 hours of instrument time (sim or actual), 15 of which have to be training received from an Airplane CFII, this includes:
- 3 hours from a CFII-A within the 2 months prior to the checkride
- "Long XC" in an airplane - 250 nm, three airports, three approaches

Note that you will likely already have 40 hours or more of instrument time from your IR-H training and subsequent flying. So, logically, as long as you meet the XC PIC requirement, the minimum training you have to receive is 15 hours and the long XC, both of which do have to be done in an airplane.
 
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Excellent guys! Thanks for looking into that for me. I had outlined the tasks needed based off that table but was unclear on the flight requirements leading up to the checkride. Looks like I need to start thinking about a Long XC.
 
I met all the hour requirements so I just had to concentrate on the airplane portion. That was essentially 15 hrs in the airplane with the 10 hr XC and 250 NM with 3 approaches. Knocked it all out in 2 weeks.
 
I met all the hour requirements so I just had to concentrate on the airplane portion. That was essentially 15 hrs in the airplane with the 10 hr XC and 250 NM with 3 approaches. Knocked it all out in 2 weeks.

Judging by your avatar, you know where I'm coming from.
 
Why is that?
See that little green thing at the end of the sentence? The comment was meant in jest.

That said, because flying a helicopter (IMO) seems a bit more difficult than flying an a fixed wing aircraft, and doing that on instruments must be even more difficult, then adding a IR to an existing FW cert would have to be a walk in the park.
 
@donjohnston, I didn’t take your comment negatively. I was genuinely curious about your assumption.

I know nothing about the OP, but have seen (and know) former mil RW guys who did the mil competency thing 15 years ago and haven’t touched an aviation appliance of any type in many years and feel that ‘now’ is the time to jump back in to the community and with all that time in their books, they *must* be marketable.

ETA: I’m going to assume the OP is a current Army RW aviator...does change the equation some but I would expect the FAA commercial privileges gained that apply to USAF mil comps applies to USA RW and that leads down a while ‘nother rabbit hole about the FAR knowledge expectations of an FAA Commercial Pilot.
 
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@donjohnston, I didn’t take your comment negatively. I was genuinely curious about your assumption.

I know nothing about the OP, but have seen (and know) former mil RW guys who did the mil competency thing 15 years ago and haven’t touched an aviation appliance of any type in many years and feel that ‘now’ is the time to jump back in to the community and with all that time in their books, they *must* be marketable.

Well the rotor to airline thing is in full swing, so many former rotorheads are jumping ship.

As far as helo vs airplane in instruments, that all depends on the aircraft. “Old school” helos are all hands on with no AP. New helos can fly an entire IAP in AP and land themselves. AP and stability augmentation are actually required for civ IFR ops.
 
New helos can fly an entire IAP in AP and land themselves. AP and stability augmentation are actually required for civ IFR ops.

You forgot at night, on goggles, in 0/0 high/hot conditions ;).

I know a former -53J driver currently flying HEMS in the Rockies. He says he’d rather be in his old helo in the most demanding combat sortie than what he’s doing now. But it’s fun.
 
@donjohnston, I didn’t take your comment negatively. I was genuinely curious about your assumption.

I know nothing about the OP, but have seen (and know) former mil RW guys who did the mil competency thing 15 years ago and haven’t touched an aviation appliance of any type in many years and feel that ‘now’ is the time to jump back in to the community and with all that time in their books, they *must* be marketable.

ETA: I’m going to assume the OP is a current Army RW aviator...does change the equation some but I would expect the FAA commercial privileges gained that apply to USAF mil comps applies to USA RW and that leads down a while ‘nother rabbit hole about the FAR knowledge expectations of an FAA Commercial Pilot.

I didnt give any background but I am not in the military anymore. Got out in 2012. I am looking to do my instrument fixed wing just for my own personal flying.
 
You forgot at night, on goggles, in 0/0 high/hot conditions ;).

I know a former -53J driver currently flying HEMS in the Rockies. He says he’d rather be in his old helo in the most demanding combat sortie than what he’s doing now. But it’s fun.

HEMS is fun but I miss me some NVG dust landings...not really. ;)

 
I didnt give any background but I am not in the military anymore. Got out in 2012. I am looking to do my instrument fixed wing just for my own personal flying.

Thanks for the fill in. Wasn’t judging you or your motives above, just trying to add context.

Best of luck with your Upgrade. If you held a commercial RW (milcomp) before, are you considering doing it now/soon?
 
No big deal, I should have included more background.

Did all the equivalency stuff in the service and hopefully doing the add on soon. I am flying cross country much more frequent and want the ease of filing IFR and being in the system. I would have done it sooner but I wasn't doing this type of flying enough where I thought I could stay instrument proficient.
 
HEMS is fun but I miss me some NVG dust landings...not really. ;)


How is that done???

When it's your ship, does the rotorwash clear the area directly under you? Or do you just get yourself to a point just before you lose vis and then just feel for the ground?
 
In short: steeper approach angle and shoot your approach to the ground rather than a hover. I am not familiar with Blackhawks but the -64's have flight symbology in your eye that helps once you brown out.
 
How is that done???

When it's your ship, does the rotorwash clear the area directly under you? Or do you just get yourself to a point just before you lose vis and then just feel for the ground?

Best approach is to stay above effective translational lift (around 20 kts) until you get your tailwheel down. This keeps the dust cloud just behind the tail. Not all LZs can support that kind of speed so sometimes you have to do a swift, steep approach and plant it hard. At some point you’re gonna lose all outside visual references. Even in the chin bubble while you might be able to see ground, there’s no contrast to be of any use. So basically you look to your attitude indicator on the panel, or if using HUD on the NVGs, you look at that. Your crew chief call outs are crucial as well.

Personally, if I was browned out at anything greater than 10 ft on the radar alt, I was doing a go around. Not something you would want to do during an air assault but when you push it, this stuff happens:

 
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Are there any CFII's out there that know exactly what it takes to get my fixed wing instrument ticket if I am already a instrument rated in a helicopter? I have my private fixed wing rating already.

Everything I am reading is kind of vague and I want to make sure I am interpreting it correctly.

All you need is a sign-off and checkride. You don't need a written test. You just need to practice a little in plane, get a sign-off and take the practical test.
 
All you need is a sign-off and checkride. You don't need a written test. You just need to practice a little in plane, get a sign-off and take the practical test.

The requirements are as Russ and I stated back in post #5 and #6. It is more formal than "just a little practice" to get a sign-off. You must meet the required aeronautical experience that says "must be in an airplane." Then you can get signed off and take the checkride.
 
Thanks guys! I have all the required fixed wing times so that is no problem. Lately I have been hitting the books and doing a lot of instrument training to get up to speed. I am hoping to get a sign-off in the next couple of months so I can take my check ride.
 
Here's my take.

This is not an additional aircraft rating, so it does not fall under 61.63 (which is typically used to drastically cut the hour requirements for adding a category or class).

So it falls under 61.65 ("Instrument Rating requirements"). To break it down, you have to:

- receive ground training
- receive flight training
- get an endorsement to take the practical test
- NOT have to take a knowledge test (a7)
- pass the checkride

It then goes on to say what type of topics must be discussed in ground and flight training.

But then the big one - "(d) aeronautical experience for the instrument-airplane rating"
- 50 hours XC PIC, 10 of those in an airplane (rest can be in helicopters or airships or whatever)
- 40 hours of instrument time (sim or actual), 15 of which have to be training received from an Airplane CFII, this includes:
- 3 hours from a CFII-A within the 2 months prior to the checkride
- "Long XC" in an airplane - 250 nm, three airports, three approaches

Note that you will likely already have 40 hours or more of instrument time from your IR-H training and subsequent flying. So, logically, as long as you meet the XC PIC requirement, the minimum training you have to receive is 15 hours and the long XC, both of which do have to be done in an airplane.

Russ, based on 61.65 (that you quoted above) it appears to me that the instructor for your FW only needs to have his airplane CFII. I've got my ATP helicopter, military trained plus flying S-76 now in civilian & just earned my commercial SEAL. When I go to Flight Safety (semi-annual), if my S-76 instructors are dual rated CFII, I believe I should be able to count that as instruction time. Wouldn't you agree? Essentially, I only need the requirements listed in 61.65 (d) (2) (i & ii) Three hours of flight time in an airplane.
 
HEMS is fun but I miss me some NVG dust landings...not really. ;)


Speaking of the rotor to airline thing, the pilot in this vid just started flying as an FO at a regional.
 
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