Plane crash lands after practicing engine failure, Lake Elsinore, CA 1/13/18

ActiveAir

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Hmmm....

Flying with a CFI doesn't always mean you're flying with someone of superior skills and judgement. They did survive. So, I guess the practice was successful... Will wait for the full explanation before passing judgement. Glad they survived.

Wouldn't you want to practice this somewhere that a safe landing was an option? Lake Matthews practice area is not far from there, and offers a lot better options.


https://www.pe.com/2018/01/17/pilot...en-plane-crashed-near-lake-elsinore-faa-says/
 
I usually do a simulated forced landing in view of a grass runway, and most of the students still try to put it in a field! Then when I point out the nice long grass strip they go, oh......:)

But in this case it's on the CFI probably if they were giving instruction, especially if it were a student pilot.
 
I usually do a simulated forced landing in view of a grass runway, and most of the students still try to put it in a field! Then when I point out the nice long grass strip they go, oh......:)

But in this case it's on the CFI probably if they were giving instruction, especially if it were a student pilot.

I used to be a member of the Texas A&M Flying Club. Not far away is the old AFB with twin 7300 ft runways. I would take student over the runways, mention how nice those old runways look, then turn them towards the practice area. Then simulate an engine failure. 9 out of 10 would turn towards the nice looking cotton fields..... after I just showed them the nice long runways..!!! :lol:

But I digress, most students are taught to look for a field instead of an old runway.

Now I think those runways are cluttered up with different kinds of equipment and the fields would be the better choice...
 
I used to be a member of the Texas A&M Flying Club. Not far away is the old AFB with twin 7300 ft runways. I would take student over the runways, mention how nice those old runways look, then turn them towards the practice area. Then simulate an engine failure. 9 out of 10 would turn towards the nice looking cotton fields..... after I just showed them the nice long runways..!!! :lol:

But I digress, most students are taught to look for a field instead of an old runway.

Now I think those runways are cluttered up with different kinds of equipment and the fields would be the better choice...

I was taught to look out the windshield for a good, flattish spot, not back behind me for an airport . . . . :cornut:
 
I was taught to look out the windshield for a good, flattish spot, not back behind me for an airport . . . . :cornut:

Ha! Last week I had a guy set up for a straight in to a grass strip straight ahead! Went for a small field....
 
There's a strip at Lake Elsinore, used to fly out of there.
 
Wow they hit a power line...amazing they weren't killed
 
When you dont have an engine, a big open field may be a lot easier and safer to land on than a runway. And its not that big a deal to get out of. Fix the plane where it is and take off from the field.
 
How low is too low in a sim failure.... off airport, 500' ?

I'd say that 500' is a good altitude if lining up with an open field and depending on what is nearby but if over populated area, I'd go with 1000'+. If you are actually landing on a grass runway or other suitable surface as your emergency landing area then you can of course go to the surface. Practicing an engine out is not an excuse not to follow 91.119.

Looking at Google maps of the location given in the article, it certainly appears they went way too low for where they were. Of course, hitting power lines sort of says that.
 
Looks like the occupants may have had tunnel vision. May have gotten a little low,since they struck power lines.
 
I'd say that 500' is a good altitude if lining up with an open field and depending on what is nearby but if over populated area, I'd go with 1000'+. If you are actually landing on a grass runway or other suitable surface as your emergency landing area then you can of course go to the surface. Practicing an engine out is not an excuse not to follow 91.119.

Looking at Google maps of the location given in the article, it certainly appears they went way too low for where they were. Of course, hitting power lines sort of says that.
I agree....
 
I used to be a member of the Texas A&M Flying Club. Not far away is the old AFB with twin 7300 ft runways. I would take student over the runways, mention how nice those old runways look, then turn them towards the practice area. Then simulate an engine failure. 9 out of 10 would turn towards the nice looking cotton fields..... after I just showed them the nice long runways..!!! :lol:

But I digress, most students are taught to look for a field instead of an old runway.

Now I think those runways are cluttered up with different kinds of equipment and the fields would be the better choice...
Lol. I did that on my PPL checkride. Examiner pulls the throttle. I do all the right stuff, speed, checklists, dazzled him with how I figgered out which way the wind was blowin down there and how I was goin for the beach but would put in the surf if people didn't get out of the way. He said cool, but I think I'd have chosen that airport there. It was CRQ. 5000 foot runway that I had been to many times
 
if we were withing gliding range of an airport we'd actually land.. otherwise at 500' agl the CFI would call it good. I personally enjoyed taking it all the way down to the ground
 
I did my flight review at DuBois, and have no doubt flown that Cherokee. We'd usually do our simulated engine-outs down to about 300 feet, just south of Lake Mathews...lots of flat area there. Good to hear that the injuries were only minor.
 
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There's a strip at Lake Elsinore, used to fly out of there.

Yeah, it's a very active jump zone now. Not a good idea to be anywhere near it in a small plane, especially for any training or practice.
 
When you dont have an engine, a big open field may be a lot easier and safer to land on than a runway. And its not that big a deal to get out of. Fix the plane where it is and take off from the field.

Assuming you are away from home airport, how does one find a mechanic who travels and works out of their truck? It’s not like any if them have web sites.
 
During my PPL checkride the examiner kept telling me to continue on a simulated engine out. The area was filled with flat pasture land so there wasn’t a lot of risk. At about 100’ AGL on approach to the pasture I had picked out I told him I was breaking off to avoid a simulated emergency from becoming a real one, pushed the power in, and did a climb out. The DPE told me he was just checking to see how far I’d go before asserting my pilot in command authority and taking charge. I passed.

He said afterwards that you never know what a passenger or ATC is going to do and the pilot always has the final word. I took the lesson to heart but thought it was an interesting excercise in those circumstances and have always wondered how low we’d have gone before he took action. The field was plenty long to land in safely but it was a field so there was no guarantee that the plane wouldn’t have been damaged if we’d have landed.

Gary
 
I was taught to look out the windshield for a good, flattish spot, not back behind me for an airport . . . . :cornut:

You'd have failed my PPL ride. DPE had me foggled. As soon as I came out, he failed the engine, but made sure there was a private airstrip hidden perfectly under the belly of the plane. As soon as I got out from under the foggles, I knew exactly where I was and began a spiral to the runway.
 
You'd have failed my PPL ride. DPE had me foggled. As soon as I came out, he failed the engine, but made sure there was a private airstrip hidden perfectly under the belly of the plane. As soon as I got out from under the foggles, I knew exactly where I was and began a spiral to the runway.

No problem. My DPE was the Commander of the WV ANG wing, cared mucho about Safety and made it his priority. My simulated engine out was to a soybean field, then I changed to a different one because I was better aligned with it (and explained as I did so). Asked how low to go, he said he'd tell me, so I went to Flaps 20° and concentrated on a nice setup until he said he thought I could make it.

Then we did another one to a full stop back at the airport . . .
 
No problem. My DPE was the Commander of the WV ANG wing, cared mucho about Safety and made it his priority. My simulated engine out was to a soybean field, then I changed to a different one because I was better aligned with it (and explained as I did so). Asked how low to go, he said he'd tell me, so I went to Flaps 20° and concentrated on a nice setup until he said he thought I could make it.

Then we did another one to a full stop back at the airport . . .

Did that to one of my students Sunday. He thought he had field made & was ready to terminate it. I said continue, I'll let you know. One way to prove he wouldn't have made it, he was way too high.
 
Unless I have plenty of altitude very close to an airport, I am looking for a big field.

Most airports gave some sort of obstacles at the end or around runways. A SLIGHT miscalculation on glide distance can be disasterous when approaching most airports.

Roads have power lines and innocent cars.

I just think big fields are the best choice.
 
I actually took it all the way down to the ground on my PPL checkride. DPE pulled the power, I did all my stuff and headed to the grass strip. It was actually a good exercise and confidence builder for me.
 
Unless I have plenty of altitude very close to an airport, I am looking for a big field.

Most airports gave some sort of obstacles at the end or around runways. A SLIGHT miscalculation on glide distance can be disasterous when approaching most airports.

Roads have power lines and innocent cars.

I just think big fields are the best choice.

There probably is an irresistible urge to save the airplane not to mention the hassle of an off airport landing that makes that easier said than done.
 
I usually do a simulated forced landing in view of a grass runway, and most of the students still try to put it in a field! Then when I point out the nice long grass strip they go, oh......:)

But in this case it's on the CFI probably if they were giving instruction, especially if it were a student pilot.

My CFI usually does the same. The problem for me is that most of the private fields are very narrow, have trees close by on all 4 sides, and a house just off the runway. If I miss the approach I'm screwed. There is one private field that is wide open, has the house well off the runway, and a giant field in front of the runway so if I'm short I have an option.

There are a very few low-volume 4 land divided highways without a lot of power lines in our practice area that can make good options.

I'm still learning.
 
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