Medical Question: Kidney stones

Peter P Warenski

Filing Flight Plan
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Sgt Ski
I am new to this forum. My name is Pete living in the suburbs of Chicago. At the age of 71 I am living out my dream as a student pilot. I soloed in September and currently working on my cross country requirements,weather permitting.
The medical issue/question is the following: Since I was 31 years of age I have had a history of Kidney stones. It is a a hereditary thing within the family. I have had 5 episodes requiring various procedures to remove them e.g lithotripsy etc. In August of 16 I took my initial exam. I disclosed my history etc (w/documentation)to the AME. Given my last "major" episode was in 2007 he passed me. Unfortunately I am going through another episode now. I have been diagnosed with 2 rather large stones in both kidneys. Once again I will have a "pocedure " done in a few days to have them removed.
Question 1: As a student pilot, is their a responsibility to self disclosure to the FAA my current status? Needless to say I have grounded myself. My next physical is August 2018
Question 2: I having been doing some research. I came across an article posted by AOPA sating in so many words..."having one kidney stone and evidence of it s total removal is not a problem however
Having a history of kidney stone issues is cause for medical disqualification.
Has anyone had any experience with this? I am think of contacting an AME and asking directly my chances etc. As you can expect this is very disappointing for me. I have put considerable time an effort into getting my license. I am a realist as to the implications of having KS attack at a crucial moment can be deadly. My instructor have been great in emphasizing safety as the first priority health being a major one. Any thoughts woul be appreciated. Thanks in advance ...Pete
 
FAA is concerned with "sudden incapacitation".

You'll soon be getting the name of an AME that you can consult. He might not be too far from you.

I got mine the day after my Private checkride, haven't had one since.
 
You should repost this in the medical portion of this forum. There are two AMEs who regularly read it and respond. One of them, Dr. Chien can also be reached through his website.

It's important you don't do anything until you understand the ramifications. Possibly the best course for you is to go BasicMed from now on which you will qualify since you have a class III but you do not want to do anything to get your Class III pulled or denied in the interim.
 
Maybe...

He says he does already have a medical.

Yeah we mean from now on. For right now just don't get a denial or revocation, follow Dr. Bruce's guidance whether what to report when.
 
Maybe...

He says he does already have a medical.

Oh, in that case I believe he's in the clear and can go BM from now on, as kidney stones are not one of the "big three" requiring and SI before going BM.
 
Yeah we mean from now on. For right now just don't get a denial or revocation, follow Dr. Bruce's guidance whether what to report when.

Yes, consult with Dr Bruce, but I believe your best strategy as a present class three holder is to keep mum on the kidney stone stuff, and go BM when your present third class expires.
 
For the benefit of the OP: Basic Medical is new, last year. It's a simpler process. It does have a few restrictions on what and how you can fly, but for the large majority of PP those limitations are N/A.
 
If you already have a medical go BasicMed. It saved me in your exact situation.
 
Yes, go basic med at this point, since you already have a Class 3.

What you should do is get treated for the current condition, be sure any potentially "active" stones have passed, and consult with a urologist to see if there may be a medication you can take to reduce the risk of recurrence (you will probably need to get a 24-hr urine test and a blood test so they can figure this out). After the urologist is convinced you are "stable", go for a basic med exam (the urologist may be willing to do this for you) and get that sign-off before you fly again. If you were to try to do this under Class 3, you would need additional x-rays/CT-scans ($$$) to prove where things are at over time, which likely won't be required, or not to the same extent, by your urologist. I went through all of this a few years ago, did manage to get my Class 3 back, but now I'm about to do Basic Med because I just don't need to risk this hassle anymore should there be a recurrence.

Don't know about you, but I've had 3 stone episodes, and none were anything near immediately incapacitating, though it certainly got that way after a few/several hours. All of my "events" except the first had a pretty logical lead-up due to sudden dietary changes, so you should probably look at that angle.

Under your Class 3 medical, you probably shouldn't fly again, because you probably got a letter at some point from the FAA saying that "if anything changes for you kidney stone condition, you need to notify us". Well, of course they don't make it clear if you have to notify them before your next Class 3 or not, but that is rolling the dice with a federal agency... You do not need to wait for your Class 3 to be expired (or nearly so) to get a Basic Med exam.

The only hiccup is I'm not 100% certain if there is anything in the rules that prohibit a student pilot from flying under Basic Med, provided they did a Class 3 previously.

Good luck!
 
Yes, go basic med at this point, since you already have a Class 3.

What you should do is get treated for the current condition, be sure any potentially "active" stones have passed, and consult with a urologist to see if there may be a medication you can take to reduce the risk of recurrence (you will probably need to get a 24-hr urine test and a blood test so they can figure this out). After the urologist is convinced you are "stable", go for a basic med exam (the urologist may be willing to do this for you) and get that sign-off before you fly again. If you were to try to do this under Class 3, you would need additional x-rays/CT-scans ($$$) to prove where things are at over time, which likely won't be required, or not to the same extent, by your urologist. I went through all of this a few years ago, did manage to get my Class 3 back, but now I'm about to do Basic Med because I just don't need to risk this hassle anymore should there be a recurrence.

Don't know about you, but I've had 3 stone episodes, and none were anything near immediately incapacitating, though it certainly got that way after a few/several hours. All of my "events" except the first had a pretty logical lead-up due to sudden dietary changes, so you should probably look at that angle.

Under your Class 3 medical, you probably shouldn't fly again, because you probably got a letter at some point from the FAA saying that "if anything changes for you kidney stone condition, you need to notify us". Well, of course they don't make it clear if you have to notify them before your next Class 3 or not, but that is rolling the dice with a federal agency... You do not need to wait for your Class 3 to be expired (or nearly so) to get a Basic Med exam.

The only hiccup is I'm not 100% certain if there is anything in the rules that prohibit a student pilot from flying under Basic Med, provided they did a Class 3 previously.

Good luck!
There isn't. I had 3rd class and BasicMed both as a student, I took the ride under Basicmed, DPE just asked me which one I would like to use for the ride.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
No advice Peter as I've only had one kidney stone in my life, but I feel for ya man having a continual problem with those.
 
Yes, go basic med at this point, since you already have a Class 3.

What you should do is get treated for the current condition, be sure any potentially "active" stones have passed, and consult with a urologist to see if there may be a medication you can take to reduce the risk of recurrence (you will probably need to get a 24-hr urine test and a blood test so they can figure this out). After the urologist is convinced you are "stable", go for a basic med exam (the urologist may be willing to do this for you) and get that sign-off before you fly again. If you were to try to do this under Class 3, you would need additional x-rays/CT-scans ($$$) to prove where things are at over time, which likely won't be required, or not to the same extent, by your urologist. I went through all of this a few years ago, did manage to get my Class 3 back, but now I'm about to do Basic Med because I just don't need to risk this hassle anymore should there be a recurrence.

Don't know about you, but I've had 3 stone episodes, and none were anything near immediately incapacitating, though it certainly got that way after a few/several hours. All of my "events" except the first had a pretty logical lead-up due to sudden dietary changes, so you should probably look at that angle.

Under your Class 3 medical, you probably shouldn't fly again, because you probably got a letter at some point from the FAA saying that "if anything changes for you kidney stone condition, you need to notify us". Well, of course they don't make it clear if you have to notify them before your next Class 3 or not, but that is rolling the dice with a federal agency... You do not need to wait for your Class 3 to be expired (or nearly so) to get a Basic Med exam.

The only hiccup is I'm not 100% certain if there is anything in the rules that prohibit a student pilot from flying under Basic Med, provided they did a Class 3 previously.

Good luck!
Yep. I've had only one that was immediately incapacitating and I credit that to me being asleep immediately beforehand. That's not really an issue when flying (one would hope).

It is the FAA being the FAA.
 
BasicMed requires having a valid medical in the past 10 years.

I don’t believe that’s so.

A quote from the FAA FAQs page:

Q9: Do I have to always “hold or have held a medical certificate” in the past 10 years?
A: No. There is no 10-year requirement, or a 10-year “look-back”. You only need to have held a medical certificate at any point after July 14, 2006.

It’s one of the goofy things about the law. In fact, to show how goofy it is: if any youngster thinks they might ever want to fly, even many decades later, it would be smart to get a medical certificate just once, as a teenager, or even as a five-year-old, while it is still easy.
 
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I don’t believe that’s so.

A quote from the FAA FAQs page:

Q9: Do I have to always “hold or have held a medical certificate” in the past 10 years?
A: No. There is no 10-year requirement, or a 10-year “look-back”. You only need to have held a medical certificate at any point after July 14, 2006.
Yep. It is a bit confusing to some folks since it was 10 years back from when the bill became law. But it's not 10 years back forever
 
Try this, from the AME guide.

Jeff Oslick's post above was really spot-on; you have to insist to your insurer that they allow this. On long time boarder is really itter about this but its' because his insurer cheaped out on getting the consult on "changing the compostion of his pee to stop the over and over production of stones.

There are actually 3 ways to certify a guy with a known current stone retained.
(1) document that in >90 days it has not moved, and not been joined by new bedfellows-->Special issuance.
(2) get it removed
(3) If you have many may stones chronically you probably have nephrocalcinosis. That means the deposits have all been there so long that the lining of the tubes has grown over the calcium and can never move. That will special issue.

Note in the handouts, the passage of time without a stone event is advantageous.
 

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I live in dread of Kidney stones, which do run in my family. Thankfully I haven’t experienced any. Vegetarian diet and I drink greater than a quart of liquid daily.
 
On long time boarder is really itter about this but its' because his insurer cheaped out on getting the consult on "changing the compostion of his pee to stop the over and over production of stones.
It is true - I am bitter. Because the FAA required so much work to clear a truly benign malady, I spent 5 years grounded and missed out on opportunities to see my dad more before he died. I still saw him but would have done it more had I been able to fly. My insurance company did screw me, but I was pretty jaded at that point anyway. I mean - it's kidney stones. Come on.

But I do hold one soft spot in my heart for the FAA's foolishness. Because I was grounded I got a lot healthier. I sought treatment for my apnea and focused on healthier living since I didn't care about aeromedical's opinion anymore. You see, the FAA has created and promoted a dangerous set of lifestyle choices for pilots by making them fearful of seeing doctors lest they find themselves diagnosed with a grounding condition that is not very serious. As a result, more serious illnesses can go undetected.

It is their own poor decisions that caused the creation of the BasicMed ruling. And I fully embrace and promote it as both a "told ya do" opportunity for the FAA and more importantly because it helps remove the stigma associated with seeking care for an airman without the fear of a vengeful and (quite frankly) stupid FAA that should have NEVER been in the business of health to begin with.
 
You see, the FAA has created and promoted a dangerous set of lifestyle choices for pilots by making them fearful of seeing doctors lest they find themselves diagnosed with a grounding condition that is not very serious. As a result, more serious illnesses can go undetected.
I couldn’t agree more. The FAA has created this illusion that as long as you can read an eye chart and don’t have any reportable issues that raise flags, you are perfectly healthy, which we know is absolute BS when you have an airline captain with 1st class Medical dying of a heart attack in flight.
 
You see, the FAA has created and promoted a dangerous set of lifestyle choices for pilots by making them fearful of seeing doctors lest they find themselves diagnosed with a grounding condition that is not very serious. As a result, more serious illnesses can go undetected.

The more intently you scrutinize something, the more you change the thing being observed. Basic law of nature and one that's always ignored with law and regulation. Hence unintended consequences.
 
... I drink greater than a quart of liquid daily.
After I had mine, I made it a point to carry a one liter (quart) water bottle with me to work every day. As long as it's empty at least one time each day, then I know I had at least a liter. It's a simple way for me to keep track.
 
I live in dread of Kidney stones, which do run in my family. Thankfully I haven’t experienced any. Vegetarian diet and I drink greater than a quart of liquid daily.

After I had mine, I made it a point to carry a one liter (quart) water bottle with me to work every day. As long as it's empty at least one time each day, then I know I had at least a liter. It's a simple way for me to keep track.

My dad used to get them, and I remember the "fun" he had passing them. No thanks, I drink copious quantities of water daily.
 
I've related my episode before: One stone, one time, the day after my PP checkride.

I've had one, one time also. It happened in '03 a few months after I began taking that coral calcium that was so popular on TV for awhile. I assume that's what it was. Quit taking it, never had one since.
 
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