Question about obtaining basic med

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Eager Flyer

Guest
Hello all,

So I have a question about a drug. Hypothetically, lets say someone is trying to obtain a class 3 medical for his/her private pilot license. They had been prescribed Suboxone on an out-patient program by a physician and were taking it for 7 months to come off an addiction to prescription pain killers after being in an automobile accident which occurred a couple years prior. As of 3 months ago they no longer are prescribed to this drug nor do they see this physician. Would this be a problem in obtaining the class 3? No drug tests were ever failed nor any run ins with the law. Everything is squeaky clean. No other medical problems.

Thank you!
 
You mention BasicMed in the thread title and then ask about class 3 in the body.

Which are you seeking?
 
SkyHog said:
You mention BasicMed in the thread title and then ask about class 3 in the body.

Which are you seeking?
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Sorry, I thought you need class 3 to get basic med, maybe I'm confused. I would be seeking whichever one you need to obtain a PPL
 
Eager Flyer said:
Sorry, I thought you need class 3 to get basic med, maybe I'm confused. I would be seeking whichever one you need to obtain a PPL
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You do need to have held a class 1, 2, or 3 medical certificate in order to qualify for BasicMed, but if your medical certificate has not expired (or if it has expired and you get a new one), then you don't need BasicMed to get a PPL.
 
Ugh. Well, reportable, but then the agency will demand evidence of "recovery". Suboxone at any time is regarded as a marker for dependency. Now we've gotten into proven negative urines and a psychiatrist.
 
bbchien said:
Ugh. Well, reportable, but then the agency will demand evidence of "recovery". Suboxone at any time is regarded as a marker for dependency. Now we've gotten into proven negative urines and a psychiatrist.
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So what if this person just simply did NOT report this when they go see the AME?
 
Corey G said:
So what if this person just simply did NOT report this when they go see the AME?
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NOT a good plan. It will become a live hand grenade ready to do harm as soon as the airman is involved in an investigatible incident or accident. Loss of flying privileges is start. Civil or criminal courts likely next.

No one here will advocate what you suggest.
 
Corey G said:
So what if this person just simply did NOT report this when they go see the AME?
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Wrong question. Bruce won't answer and I don't blame him. Rule number one here should be- "don't ask how to defraud the FAA."

One wouldn't want to commit fraud against a fraudulent agency.
 
Eager Flyer said:
Sorry, I thought you need class 3 to get basic med, maybe I'm confused. I would be seeking whichever one you need to obtain a PPL
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Ahh. I missed that you did not yet have your PPL. You can't get BasicMed for your first medical. You have to play the slot machine at least once.
 
AggieMike88 said:
NOT a good plan. It will become a live hand grenade ready to do harm as soon as the airman is involved in an investigatible incident or accident. Loss of flying privileges is start. Civil or criminal courts likely next.

No one here will advocate what you suggest.
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Understood! I was not looking for anyone to advocate it. Simply just wondering A.) Was it possible to get around it and B.) What the ramifications would be.

You say it would be a live hand grenade if an investigative incident ever occurred...I'm just curious, is this a normal thing for private pilots? That an incident eventually will occur and it be investigated by the FAA?
 
Corey G said:
So what if this person just simply did NOT report this when they go see the AME?
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In other words, deliberately lie by omission on a Federal form? And sign it, claiming you didn't lie?
 
Not impossible, but there are hoops to jump through. Recommend talking to an AME who specializes in hard cases - Dr Chien is an excellent choice.

Do NOT just fill out the form and go in for a physical. Understand the situation before you jump.
 
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Eager Flyer said:
What do you mean play the slot machine at least once?
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I mean once you get denied a medical you have a hell of a ride ahead of you to get it back.

I recommend you get your first medical and then never again. BasicMed for all future medicals
 
Eager Flyer: I recommend that you get good medical care. The kind the insurance company doesn't wish to provide you. :( :( :( ANY investigation will show the suboxone Rx and then you get the "show cause why we should not revoke your pilot certificate..." letter...."Not a good idea, Mav....".
 
bflynn said:
Not impossible, but there are hoops to jump through. Recommend talking to an AME who specializes in hard cases - Dr Chien is an excellent choice.

Do you just fill out the form and go in for a physical. Understand the situation before you jump.
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OP please do this. Have a consult with Dr. Chien or other qualified AME BEFORE filling out the application. Get an idea what to expect, they'll want proof you're no longer an addict, or never were. Unfortunately it will require money for psychiatric tests but once you get your ducks lined up and you apply, eventually get issued, you'll be all square. Much better to do this than try to hide it. They may require longer than three months clean.

Suboxone for post accident dependency in my not so humble opinion may not be the most appropriate treatment. Hindsight 20/20. Moot now.
 
bbchien said:
Eager Flyer: I recommend that you get good medical care. The kind the insurance company doesn't wish to provide you. :( :( :( ANY investigation will show the suboxone Rx and then you get the "show cause why we should not revoke your pilot certificate..." letter...."Not a good idea, Mav....".
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Thank you sir...appreciate the advice. Gah I hate the FAA right now! Or maybe just myself for getting into this mess to begin with :( Though if i'm being completely honest, I was just as astute, alert, and incisive ON the medication as I am off of it, and is quite upsetting that it could potentially kill any dream of flying. Oh well, such is life...The medication is still fairly new I guess, so I could see why they would be wary of it. Anyways, I regress...
 
Suboxone for post accident dependency in my not so humble opinion may not be the most appropriate treatment. Hindsight 20/20. Moot now.[/QUOTE]

You can say that again brother! Maybe one of the dumbest decisions I ever made! Certainly top 5, lol! I swear that medication is more addictive and harder to get off of than the pain killers themselves! Of course neither the government nor the doctors obviously give a damn, all they see is dollar signs. As you said, hindsight 20/20
 
Eager Flyer said:
Thank you sir...appreciate the advice. Gah I hate the FAA right now! Or maybe just myself for getting into this mess to begin with :( Though if i'm being completely honest, I was just as astute, alert, and incisive ON the medication as I am off of it, and is quite upsetting that it could potentially kill any dream of flying. Oh well, such is life...The medication is still fairly new I guess, so I could see why they would be wary of it. Anyways, I regress...
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No the issue isn't suboxone itself being a new med that the FAA is wary of. The issue is that the FAA is wary of addicts. The simple fact you have taken Suboxone is like putting "addict" label on you. You may or may not really be an addict. But if you have severe accident injuries and ongoing chronic pain and you took opioid painkillers for months or years, daily, then you WILL be physically dependent, it's a fact for everyone. So to get off them can be difficult. If you don't taper down slowly you have withdrawal symptoms and this scares some people into thinking they're an addict, they go tell their doctor it's hard getting off these pills and so boom, you get given this suboxone which supposedly makes it easier to get off the other meds but in fact is actually trading one dependency for another. It's just that suboxone is soooooooooooooo long acting you can go days before really feeling withdrawal and hence can then taper and wean really gradually.

You might actually be an addict in which case the FAA is going to require you to be in a 12 step program and some time (I think 2 years?) clean before qualifying and even then be followed by a HIMS psychiatrist.

Or you are a pain patient who had a little snag getting off the drugs after a horrific accident required some long term use but do not actually have the underlying tendency to use these drugs inappropriately in the long term. If that is the case shame on your doctor for jumping to the drug they use to wean heroin needle addicts and not just giving you a bit more time and support to taper down on your own. Like I said the Suboxone has now put the label on you. Well to be fair, some doctors are now trying Suboxone itself as a pain treatment drug just like they did methadone after it had already been out a while as an addiction treatment drug. So maybe the stigma will fade in time "if you've ever taken Suboxone you must be an addict" but don't hold your breath.

The FAA will want to sort this out, which type you are, hence the psychiatric testing. We can't do it on this board. You may not know yourself. And the FAA will not issue until you are either proven not an addict in the first place, or, if an addict, in FULL RECOVERY, and that you "get it" which requires the whole 12 step NA or AA deal.

So find out what the testing is going to entail, get it all sorted BEFORE doing the medexpress application. Know you have a good chance to get issued before applying because if you get denied you will be locked out of sport pilot.
 
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