One Trick Pony

timwinters

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LTD
To avoid hijacking the "airspeed on downwind" thread any more than it already has been, I've started this one!

Calling @Tantalum

The video mentioned one trick pony, fair enough, but the same could be said for the 1/2 mile power off 60 knot approach as well

<Tim grabs his crotch, looks askance at his foe, and, in a manner that is typical of when a bunch of buddies are sitting in a bar having a beer during Friday night happy hour, retorts:>

"I have your one trick pony right here, dude!!

----break----

Flew early today, needed to get the plane out, it'd been a few weeks. Temps were in the low teens and altimeter settings were in the 30.65 range producing density altitudes of more than 3,000' below MSL altitudes.

So I fly down to Cape (KCGI) to do a few landings (class D and, yes, I'm the only one around). On the last circuit, I fly the pattern purposely high and tight so I can do a slipping turn from base to final and then a full deflection slip all the way down to about 10' AGL (max) on final (full flaps, 60mph indicated). I kick it out of the slip and simultaneously start my roundout and flare...and a freaking coyote runs across the runway immediately ahead of me!

Whoahhhhh!

Burp the throttle, float about 20', and set down on the other side of him. That certainly woke me up from my nap!

---break----

I have my oil cooler totally covered with FAA approved duct tape but still couldn't get the oil temps up to 180 or above this morning which is what it takes in my plane to boil off the water. So I do some slow flight on the way back to KPCD. This is what I looked at for about thirty minutes and, yes, I maintained almost 190 oil temps for the duration:

EAAE19D1-A2FE-4DD2-BF94-B6CBD35FF669.jpeg

In case you're wondering, I was full flaps (40*), 2200rpm and 16" manifold pressure. And, of course, the stall warning was screaming the entire time. Buddy was sitting in the backseat asking "WTF?" My ground speed was about 30kts, have no idea what the winds aloft were, it was pretty calm here this morning with a slight breeze out of the SSE at the surface.

I love playing at the edges of the envelopes and sky. The center is sooooooo boring!

:cool:

:happydance:

:thumbsup:

As an aside, ask the 6y9 contingent what a "real" low pass looks like. Hint: if your tires aren't at or below the tops of the Runway cones @ at least 160mph then it AIN'T a low pass. Or as Brad said on his handheld as I pulled up at the end "was that a low pass or an extended touch and go?"

<har>

;)
 
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Oooh! A personal invite, I feel honored!

Tim grabs his crotch, looks askance at his foe
Crotch grabbing aside, I didn't picture us as foes, but having a difference of technique for what is "typical" or common for speed in the downwind, particularly when a new pilot is asking. also surprised me that a CFI would tell him that 100 will get him failed. Maybe not the best practice to zip around at cruise speed in a Skyhawk, but something to fail over?

I love playing at the edges of the envelopes and sky.
Same here, it can be loads of fun and I think it's important to keep the pilot fully comfortable, competent, and proficient throughout the flight envelope. When I fly with new pilots I'll sometimes ask how long it's been since they've done some old PPL maneuvers.. and it definitely makes me more alert when someone comes back and says "not in 15 years since I got my PPL." So I'm definitely with you there. A proficient pilot should be able to comfortably take his plane (and himself) through the whole flight envelope of the plane.. and actually be comfortable even a bit beyond without freaking out or freezing up at the controls. No, I'm not advocating going outside of Vne, etc., but it's like a doctor not having a panic attack if his patient flat lines.

was that a low pass or an extended touch and go
Becareful with those, don't want to end up like those Air Berlin guys!

**I still think for new pilots flying your run of the mill-seen-better-days rental 172 and Cherokees that 85-95 kts in the downwind is what is common, and generally expected. Do you want to drag it in from 3 miles out, nope. As I said in that thread, staying consistent is what I would think is most important, and I'm sure there are local differences at the airports people frequent. If you fly out of SNA or PSP then you'll be faster. If you're flying out of RNM, HMT, etc., you can be a little slower, etc. Plus, around here it is not uncommon to have a faster plane in the pattern.. and I generally try to be neighborly to these guys. Sure, if I'm following a Cub (or even a gyrocopter :eek2:) then I'll slow it way down.. but if I know there's a Mooney, twin Cessna, or Baron, or SR22, etc. behind me than I'll keep it a little faster as well. Most pilots should be comfortable doing both

Cheers

PS that's a nice panel, refreshing to see something that is kept in ship shape, clean, and hasn't become a total clusterf*ck hodgepodge. So kudos on that
 
In case you're wondering, I was full flaps (40*), 2200rpm and 16" manifold pressure. And, of course, the stall warning was screaming the entire time.

;)

Just so you know: Slow flight with full flaps in Cessnas eventually cracks the flap skins. Look for small cracks from the trailing edge rivets, especially on the bottom skin, within the area of propeller blast. Had plenty of trouble with that in the flight school airplanes, and especially in the 182.
 
You guys in your high wings. I for one didn’t buy an airplane to fly slow. I think you Cessna fanboys are utterly off your collective rockers.
 
What's all this about jabbing dudes in bars and crotch grabbing?

Seems "Happy Hour" has distinctly different regional interpretations.
 
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You guys in your high wings. I for one didn’t buy an airplane to fly slow. I think you Cessna fanboys are utterly off your collective rockers.

When you have strut braced wings, "flying fast" is a theoretical concept. ;)
 
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Just so you know: Slow flight with full flaps in Cessnas eventually cracks the flap skins. Look for small cracks from the trailing edge rivets, especially on the bottom skin, within the area of propeller blast. Had plenty of trouble with that in the flight school airplanes, and especially in the 182.
Yep, the flaps had numerous cracks when I bought the plane and I put a few more in them. The old 182s don't have the trailing edge stiffeners and have a Vfe of 100mph. I had the flaps reskinned about 4 years ago at annual and added the trailing edge stiffeners. Got the ones from MacFarlane that are tapered at the proper angle. They're great, McFarlane makes top notch stuff AND, more importantly, they're great people.

McFarlane stiffener:
4B608E70-BB21-4B1A-9963-B34E62C32D36.jpeg

OEM Stiffener:

9F25E7C9-4CEE-4C2E-A2CC-6E78B8A63543.jpeg

No more cracks!
 
Just so you know: Slow flight with full flaps in Cessnas eventually cracks the flap skins. Look for small cracks from the trailing edge rivets, especially on the bottom skin, within the area of propeller blast. Had plenty of trouble with that in the flight school airplanes, and especially in the 182.
Something new to look for during preflight. I give all the skin a look but can't say I've ever looked that closely for cracks starting from particular rivets.
 
To avoid hijacking the "airspeed on downwind" thread any more than it already has been, I've started this one!

Calling @Tantalum



<Tim grabs his crotch, looks askance at his foe, and, in a manner that is typical of when a bunch of buddies are sitting in a bar having a beer during Friday night happy hour, retorts:>

"I have your one trick pony right here, dude!!

----break----

Flew early today, needed to get the plane out, it'd been a few weeks. Temps were in the low teens and altimeter settings were in the 30.65 range producing density altitudes of more than 3,000' below MSL altitudes.

So I fly down to Cape (KCGI) to do a few landings (class D and, yes, I'm the only one around). On the last circuit, I fly the pattern purposely high and tight so I can do a slipping turn from base to final and then a full deflection slip all the way down to about 10' AGL (max) on final (full flaps, 60mph indicated). I kick it out of the slip and simultaneously start my roundout and flare...and a freaking coyote runs across the runway immediately ahead of me!

Whoahhhhh!

Burp the throttle, float about 20', and set down on the other side of him. That certainly woke me up from my nap!

---break----

I have my oil cooler totally covered with FAA approved duct tape but still couldn't get the oil temps up to 180 or above this morning which is what it takes in my plane to boil off the water. So I do some slow flight on the way back to KPCD. This is what I looked at for about thirty minutes and, yes, I maintained almost 190 oil temps for the duration:

View attachment 59270

In case you're wondering, I was full flaps (40*), 2200rpm and 16" manifold pressure. And, of course, the stall warning was screaming the entire time. Buddy was sitting in the backseat asking "WTF?" My ground speed was about 30kts, have no idea what the winds aloft were, it was pretty calm here this morning with a slight breeze out of the SSE at the surface.

I love playing at the edges of the envelopes and sky. The center is sooooooo boring!

:cool:

:happydance:

:thumbsup:

As an aside, ask the 6y9 contingent what a "real" low pass looks like. Hint: if your tires aren't at or below the tops of the Runway cones @ at least 160mph then it AIN'T a low pass. Or as Brad said on his handheld as I pulled up at the end "was that a low pass or an extended touch and go?"

<har>

;)
What airplane is that? I've never seen a panel before with the CDI's way over yonder to the left.
 
Is it hard to see the radios in that position? I love the old 182s, but hate the radio positions.

Is that a CD player?:happydance:
 
Is it hard to see the radios in that position? I love the old 182s, but hate the radio positions.

Is that a CD player?:happydance:

Yeah, it's hard to see them. The GPS comm on the co-pilot's side is okay, that's why I put it over there, but the VOR/ILS Comm on my side kinda sucks to use especially if I have my ipad mounted on the yoke which I typically do. And, yeah, that's a CD/MP3 player. I used to use it a lot but then came smart phones, now I just plug my phone into the aux input and hit random play...I have over 5,000 songs on it.

If/when I redo my panel the next time, I plan to do something similar to this...that bad part is the glove box is lost with this layout and I use my glove box a fair amount...it keeps the PoH, handheld radio, pulse oximeter, etc., handy:

Panel Idea.jpg
 
it keeps the PoH, handheld radio, pulse oximeter, etc., handy
How about modding the headliner to be something like this?

103c484f-7f02-43cd-8123-f183fa0543a5_1.7d01167ef4d47a3bfd380f20dd98e2a2.jpeg
 
How about modding the headliner to be something like this?

I doubt there's enough headroom, Mike. My headset band is two fingers from the ceiling/headliner in my bird. I'll have to try to visualize that next time I'm flying. It'd definitely need to have some way to secure items though. I spin my plane a lot. Buddy loves the ride.
 
Sweet looking plane! Really nice looking interior.
 
I see your CD player and raise you an AM/FM/CD player. Yup, we still have this boat anchor in our panel...

DSC01631.JPG
 
but if I know there's a Mooney, twin Cessna, or Baron, or SR22, etc. behind me than I'll keep it a little faster as well.

In the pattern with my M20C a few weeks ago, I had a Skyhawk try to run me over. He kept creeping up on me, until he was practically in formation with me by my third or fourth crosswind turn... I actually had to call him up and ask him to back off.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
In the pattern with my M20C a few weeks ago, I had a Skyhawk try to run me over. He kept creeping up on me, until he was practically in formation with me by my third or fourth crosswind turn... I actually had to call him up and ask him to back off.

Next time, invite him to make a formation takeoff! :p

Needed a flight review not long after moving down here, and grabbed a local CFI. The look on his face, and the sound of his voice, on our first takeoff was great! "Boy, we sure aren't in a 172!" as he craned his head looking out and down . . . It's funny when I have to remind CFIs that yes, it's complex time, but with only 180hp it isn't Hjgh Performance.
 
In the pattern with my M20C a few weeks ago, I had a Skyhawk try to run me over. He kept creeping up on me, until he was practically in formation with me by my third or fourth crosswind turn... I actually had to call him up and ask him to back off.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Why didn't you just extend your downwind and tell him to land if front of you? Problem solved for both of you.
 
Why didn't you just extend your downwind and tell him to land if front of you? Problem solved for both of you.

Or do a 360 on downwind and then hound the 172 around the pattern! :blueplane: :rofl:
 
Or do a 360 on downwind and then hound the 172 around the pattern! :blueplane: :rofl:

Better solution, 360 works it nicely. We had a Cherokee creeping up on us yesterday in the 172, so my instructor had me keep it in tight on the next circuit then short approach, fixed it nicely. It's tough enough out there, we need to work together.
 
Better solution, 360 works it nicely. We had a Cherokee creeping up on us yesterday in the 172, so my instructor had me keep it in tight on the next circuit then short approach, fixed it nicely. It's tough enough out there, we need to work together.

Oh I wasn't serious, or was I. Nah, I was just joking.
 
Yep, the flaps had numerous cracks when I bought the plane and I put a few more in them. The old 182s don't have the trailing edge stiffeners and have a Vfe of 100mph. I had the flaps reskinned about 4 years ago at annual and added the trailing edge stiffeners. Got the ones from MacFarlane that are tapered at the proper angle. They're great, McFarlane makes top notch stuff AND, more importantly, they're great people.

McFarlane stiffener:
View attachment 59283

OEM Stiffener:

View attachment 59284

No more cracks!

Seems like every time a Cessna needs maintenance parts the answer is never Cessna, but McFarlane. :)

What airplane is that? I've never seen a panel before with the CDI's way over yonder to the left.

Tim’s late 50’s C182

Kids! LOL. Never seen an old Cessna! :)

In the pattern with my M20C a few weeks ago, I had a Skyhawk try to run me over. He kept creeping up on me, until he was practically in formation with me by my third or fourth crosswind turn... I actually had to call him up and ask him to back off.

#metoo

:)
 
Let him pass you.
I did: I did a full stop and taxi back to the threshold, then waited for him to do his next touch and go before taking off again.

He was spanking that thing around the pattern, I was doing 100kts on crosswind and downwind, and he was still catching me.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
I was doing 100kts on crosswind and downwind, and he was still catching me
yeah that's a little excessive. 90 knots should be fine. Wonder if he just left the throttle all the way in
 
A 172 chasing a Mooney and catching it. That must have been a hot rod 172 or maybe he was practicing max performance landings.
 
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