Complex time CSEL

[paflyer]

So I'm finishing up a private multi rating, and I'm wondering if the complex time in training counts towards the CSEL complex experience requirements to qualify for the single-commercial checkride (which I'll do eventually.)

 

[unsafervguy]

Yes, you will note that 61.129 states 10 hr of instruction in an airplane with.... not single engine airplane. The other requirements such as the cross country states single engine. However, since you only did a private multi you will need to do the csel in a complex unless your do the cmel first. I have herd there are changes coming but who knows when it will happen.

Bob

 

[paflyer]

Yes, you will note that 61.129 states 10 hr of instruction in an airplane with.... not single engine airplane. The other requirements such as the cross country states single engine. However, since you only did a private multi you will need to do the csel in a complex unless your do the cmel first. I have herd there are changes coming but who knows when it will happen.

Bob

Yeah, thanks Bob. I thought it was obvious that it doesn't matter but we're talking about the FAA here.... also, I realize I'd have to do a once-around in a complex for the C-ASEL.

 

[denverpilot]

Yeah, thanks Bob. I thought it was obvious that it doesn't matter but we're talking about the FAA here.... also, I realize I'd have to do a once-around in a complex for the C-ASEL.

If you’re going from C-AMEL to C-ASEL (or any other Commercial certificates really), you’re going to want to study table A-12 in the ACS Appendix.

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs/media/commercial_airplane_acs.pdf

Not sure if you thought you only need to do “once around” because you’ll be doing the rest of the add on in a non-complex aircraft, or if there’s a bigger misunderstanding... so just mentioning it. There’s a number of required tasks in any add-on ride.

And of course, the Commercial has now crossed over into ACS land, where what used to be a small book about the requirements, is now a book closing in on rivaling War and Peace sizes.

 

[paflyer]

No, going from private, single and multi, to commercial, single engine. The question was can I apply the multi complex time to the 10 hour single requirement. I'd add multi commercial later on.

AFAIK, you can still do the bulk of the C-ASEL checkride in a FG, but then use a complex (Arrow or the like) to demonstrate that part of the checkride, which is usually a trip around the pattern.

 

[jordane93]

Correct. You have to do the landings in a retract. Maneuvers can be in a fixed gear. Or if you do the multi as the initial, you can do the entire single add on in a fixed gear.

 

[AggieMike88]

if you do the multi as the initial, you can do the entire single add on in a fixed gear

If you successfully complete the multi-commercial checkride (oral plus practical), how might that change what is covered or focused on for the oral part of the ride for SEL?

 

[jordane93]

If you successfully complete the multi-commercial checkride (oral plus practical), how might that change what is covered or focused on for the oral part of the ride for SEL?

No idea. I did single then multi add on. I’ll text some friends who did it the other way and report back.

Edit: friends say it was a very easy oral. Just some systems, performance and cross country planning.

 

[paflyer]

If you successfully complete the multi-commercial checkride (oral plus practical), how might that change what is covered or focused on for the oral part of the ride for SEL?

From memory, you have to do the single engine maneuver stuff. I don't believe there's any "lazy 8" requirement for C-AMEL, for example.

 

[AggieMike88]

friends say it was a very easy oral. Just some systems, performance and cross country planning

Thanks.... that helps explain why many take the rh fork in road and knock out multi-engine items first then do single engine as add on.

 

[denverpilot]

From memory, you have to do the single engine maneuver stuff. I don't believe there's any "lazy 8" requirement for C-AMEL, for example.

Correct. It’s all in the A-12 table.

 

[TRocket]

No idea. I did single then multi add on. I’ll text some friends who did it the other way and report back.

Edit: friends say it was a very easy oral. Just some systems, performance and cross country planning.

If I am correct doing the single first, there are no aeronautical experience or training requirements for the commercial multi add on correct? Just proficiency and a sign off?

Thanks.... that helps explain why many take the rh fork in road and knock out multi-engine items first then do single engine as add on.

I was going to go that route, but if you have zero multi time that is a VERY expensive route to go.

 

[James331]

Huh, I did my initial CPL in a floatplane, add on was in a very non complex 7AC.

Seems like if you have your ME (which is pretty complex) you should be able to do the single engine add on in a fixed gear 172 or something seeing you already demonstrated you could handle a complex machine. Huh

Thanks.... that helps explain why many take the rh fork in road and knock out multi-engine items first then do single engine as add on.

Actually many more do it the normal way, single engine to a multi add on, doing all the ME stuff first makes little sense and costs more

 

[Zeldman]

If you successfully complete the multi-commercial checkride (oral plus practical), how might that change what is covered or focused on for the oral part of the ride for SEL?

I did the multi commercial first. Since this was more than 20 years ago, memory might be a little fuzzy, but the single commercial add on was a walk in the park. We spent most of the oral talking about what maneuvers we would do and how to do them. And I did have to know the V-speeds and weights of the mighty C-152, along with doing a W&B. Then off to fly. I think the flight portion was about 30 minutes. 10 to the practice area, 10 for the maneuvers, and 10 minutes back.

 

[paflyer]

I'm doing a private multi. So if I later decide to get a commercial/single, the 10 hrs of complex aeronautical experience (some of which I'm getting as a side effect to the multi) will be covered.

At that point I'll just need the night t-o/l, and practice the maneuvers (so that will provide the 'three hours prior') since everything else is already covered.

Then for the checkride, I'll have to do a pattern in a single complex, I suppose. I'll have to check with the flight school to see if I can do that without a separate "checkout" in their arrow using a known DPE.