Garmin got me lost and cannot get me to my destination

gkainz

Final Approach
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Display name:
Greg Kainz
The irony struck me this morning after I closed the Error 404 page I landed on after following a link from Garmin's own website while chasing down GTN 650 Trainer links.

After clicking on the link (wish I would have snapped a screen shot) I landed on an Error 404 page that said "It looks like you're lost!" ... so following the magenta line got me lost with no way home!

And just to be serious, I was trying to resolve the question of "purple blue blocks of no data on the screen" as noted below

2053d404f07d87a76f5af78f3c475e43.jpg

Greg
 
The irony struck me this morning after I closed the Error 404 page I landed on after following a link from Garmin's own website while chasing down GTN 650 Trainer links.

After clicking on the link (wish I would have snapped a screen shot) I landed on an Error 404 page that said "It looks like you're lost!" ... so following the magenta line got me lost with no way home!

And just to be serious, I was trying to resolve the question of "purple blue blocks of no data on the screen" as noted below

2053d404f07d87a76f5af78f3c475e43.jpg

Greg

Well at least you had 121.5 dialed up in stby.
 
Oh, and...

That's what you kids get for relying on modern technology. It'll let you down every damn time. In my day, all we had was a Garmin 430, and 4 color display. Now THOSE were reliable. Always get you home. This new stuff... touch screen, 256 colors, faster CPU. Baaaaa.

They should go back to teaching the Old Way. D-> Enter Enter, I always say.
 
The irony struck me this morning after I closed the Error 404 page I landed on after following a link from Garmin's own website while chasing down GTN 650 Trainer links.

After clicking on the link (wish I would have snapped a screen shot) I landed on an Error 404 page that said "It looks like you're lost!" ... so following the magenta line got me lost with no way home!

And just to be serious, I was trying to resolve the question of "purple blue blocks of no data on the screen" as noted below


Greg

Turn off the NEXRAD on the map page. Incomplete ADS-B data leaves empty boxes like that.
 

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Well at least you had 121.5 dialed up in stby.

yeah, momentarily switched that to standby to monitor KCDR as I passed by ... put it right back to ensure I was ready to challenge "On Guaaaaaaaard!"

Oh, and...

That's what you kids get for relying on modern technology. It'll let you down every damn time. In my day, all we had was a Garmin 430, and 4 color display. Now THOSE were reliable. Always get you home. This new stuff... touch screen, 256 colors, faster CPU. Baaaaa.

They should go back to teaching the Old Way. D-> Enter Enter, I always say.

old way? Bah! Look out the window ... all the way home! Wave at my friend who let me antelope hunt at Igloo, waggle the wings over my friend's dad's ranch
outside of Crawford, look at Lusk, Tally ho over Torrington, shy a little east at Cheyenne and press on to the 3rd star towards morning and home.

This exercise is to learn what the heck all the purty pitchers on those cute screens mean and what all those buttons do. :)

Turn off the nexrad on the map page.

I did find that - thanks. Is this a display bug? A nexrad bug? Or just really means "no nexrad coverage"?

Greg
 
yeah, momentarily switched that to standby to monitor KCDR as I passed by ... put it right back to ensure I was ready to challenge "On Guaaaaaaaard!"



old way? Bah! Look out the window ... all the way home! Wave at my friend who let me antelope hunt at Igloo, waggle the wings over my friend's dad's ranch
outside of Crawford, look at Lusk, Tally ho over Torrington, shy a little east at Cheyenne and press on to the 3rd star towards morning and home.

This exercise is to learn what the heck all the purty pitchers on those cute screens mean and what all those buttons do. :)



I did find that - thanks. Is this a display bug? A nexrad bug? Or just really means "no nexrad coverage"?

Greg

Not a bug at all, its telling you there is no Nexrad data availabe for those areas so it won't show anything there. Here is the complete hocky puck zoomed out. It takes time for the bits to be received processed and displayed. It may not be getting a strong ADS-B signal where you are at that moment.
 

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Sectionals, E6B's and Metal Landing Calculators are for kids. Real men navigate using a sextant and the nautical almanac.

But on a serious note, it looks like you haven't earned enough points on the GTN 650 to unlock the full screen. Try some segmented magenta lines. Those rack up points in a hurry. Hover on the dots for extra health.
 
Sectionals, E6B's and Metal Landing Calculators are for kids. Real men navigate using a sextant and the nautical almanac.
All I have is a sun stone and my knowledge of the sea...[/QUOTE]
 
Not a bug at all, its telling you there is no Nexrad data availabe for those areas so it won't show anything there. Here is the complete hocky puck zoomed out. It takes time for the bits to be received processed and displayed. It may not be getting a strong ADS-B signal where you are at that moment.

What made me scratch my head was that this occurred on my return from KRAP-KBJC in the afternoon. The morning trip KBJC-KRAP didn't display that.
 
What made me scratch my head was that this occurred on my return from KRAP-KBJC in the afternoon. The morning trip KBJC-KRAP didn't display that.

I've notice that on some flights the upload is delayed longer than others. I know Garmin pilot shows I lose ground towers all together in some areas depending on altitudes of course.

Still blows me away using it when there is crud in the area.
 

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I'd send those screen captures to Garmin - and ask them what happened. The report back here - thats looks like an AD waiting to happen. . . . imagine if that went screwy like that on a LPV approach . . .
 
Garmin didn't get you lost. Obviously you haven't updated your navigational database. That is not garmin's fault. Pay up for the new database and they will be happy to get you home.
 
I'd send those screen captures to Garmin - and ask them what happened. The report back here - thats looks like an AD waiting to happen. . . . imagine if that went screwy like that on a LPV approach . . .

All the waypoints are still there. The backround "overlay" is blank when no ADS-B data has been received for those areas when the NEXRAD dispay is selected.
 
Oh, and...

That's what you kids get for relying on modern technology. It'll let you down every damn time. In my day, all we had was a Garmin 430, and 4 color display. Now THOSE were reliable. Always get you home. This new stuff... touch screen, 256 colors, faster CPU. Baaaaa.

They should go back to teaching the Old Way. D-> Enter Enter, I always say.
You call that the old way? How old are you, 12?
 
Garmin didn't get you lost. Obviously you haven't updated your navigational database. That is not garmin's fault. Pay up for the new database and they will be happy to get you home.
I can never tell when Clark is being serious or sarcastic. Oh wait, yes I can ... ;)
database is current ... and "lost" was in reference to a bad link on garmin's website (that I cannot find now ... so the "lost link is lost" ... double lost!).
 
I can never tell when Clark is being serious or sarcastic. Oh wait, yes I can ... ;)
database is current ... and "lost" was in reference to a bad link on garmin's website (that I cannot find now ... so the "lost link is lost" ... double lost!).
Garmin has a new website policy. Their proprietary webNAV(TM) software must be used and it requires monthly updates. Most of this is embedded and transparent to the user. All they really need is your creditcard info and a few permissions set.
 
You call that the old way? How old are you, 12?

Yes. Yes, I'm 12 and own a Mooney. I can't fly it yet, but I do like to sit inside and make airplane noises while turning the yoke this way and that.
 
Oh, and...

That's what you kids get for relying on modern technology. It'll let you down every damn time. In my day, all we had was a Garmin 430, and 4 color display. Now THOSE were reliable. Always get you home. This new stuff... touch screen, 256 colors, faster CPU. Baaaaa.

They should go back to teaching the Old Way. D-> Enter Enter, I always say.

Bah, 430 as old school my tush. Back in my day we had to navigate with handheld GPS IIIs.
 
OMG! Flying blind on a partail panel! You're lucky you survived!
 
Garmin has a new website policy. Their proprietary webNAV(TM) software must be used and it requires monthly updates. Most of this is embedded and transparent to the user. All they really need is your creditcard info and a few permissions set.

Cant they just call Equifax for my info?
 
Bah, 430 as old school my tush. Back in my day we had to navigate with handheld GPS IIIs.
Ha! When I wuz doing this stuff the sat reciever had to be in one place for 24 hours to produce a fix.
 
The irony struck me this morning after I closed the Error 404 page I landed on after following a link from Garmin's own website while chasing down GTN 650 Trainer links.

After clicking on the link (wish I would have snapped a screen shot) I landed on an Error 404 page that said "It looks like you're lost!" ... so following the magenta line got me lost with no way home!

And just to be serious, I was trying to resolve the question of "purple blue blocks of no data on the screen" as noted below

2053d404f07d87a76f5af78f3c475e43.jpg

Greg
is that a GTN 750?
 
Another thread made me want pizza, so I went and got one and now I'm sleepy...

JWJ?
 
That’s why I have 2 GPSs
not shown - foreflight on iPad mini on my lap
but I've been making this trip since horse and buggy day and if I can't find home (on either end) without a gps, I had better saddle up ol' bessie and go back to the good old days...
 
What made me scratch my head was that this occurred on my return from KRAP-KBJC in the afternoon. The morning trip KBJC-KRAP didn't display that.

Depending on time of day, as the (two) towers at DIA (I'm assuming by your flight route that's the towers you were likely getting your uplink from once you were in CO) *could* get overloaded with traffic uplinks, so less weather data will be interleaved than during slow times.

If you were further north, I'd have to go look up where the towers are, but it wasn't as likely to be traffic overload.

Weather is provided as secondary service behind traffic, which is why the whole (broken) concept of the "hockey puck" is in there in the first place. Assuming no one would be receiving who didn't have "OUT" was the engineering design, which is truly awful for a safety system, but they wanted more uplink time for weather and other secondary services.

Anyway... I can tell ya on ForeFlight and with the logs from a Stratux how to see why you're not getting weather blocks, (Stratux can be a great tool for troubleshooting the system overall, but since it's not on the same antenna or receiver as the Garmin, a debugging data-capture from the Garmin would be better, but I'm unaware of a way to get the Garmins to do that yet), but don't know where to dig into Garmin menus to see that data.

Garmin made the empty blocks a color instead of black so pilots wouldn't be lulled into thinking that's an area of no weather.

Some displays don't do that and it's just "not there" which can be a dangerous way to depict missing radar data.

The blue is distracting to me, I'd rather they did that with a light crosshatch like many graphical systems already use as a pseudo-standard for "no data". The blue blocks are too "in your face" for missing data, but I "get" why they did that.

Maybe it's configurable. Will be able to play more in December! ;-)

The interesting part about the traffic uplink time vs secondary data to me, is that FAA says only 1/4 of the fleet that's expected to be going ADS-B is equipped at this point. A 75% increase in targets to uplink isn't a small data problem and it'll be worse around major hubs.

I also know of no way for the system to not show a "black hole" for traffic data (not weather) when a tower site goes down. Which is a whole different problem in the design... in fact you'd still be receiving direct traffic that has Mode-S so you'd see an "area" that looked like it had "less traffic overall" but the only way you'd know that was because of a 978 uplink failure would be to see if you're receiving a tower. And I suspect most receivers will say you're receiving a tower just fine if the tower site loses its terrestrial data path but the transmitter is still on-air.

It's a very messy data delivery design for something intended to be used in real-time.

For us geeks. Just assume everything you see on the screen was transmitted to you with UDP instead of TCP over a radio link that has coverage holes. Let alone transmitted with a real Ack/Nak confirmation. Spray and pray.

That's about as far as you can really trust it. LOL.
 
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