What good is my AOPA membership?

SkyHog said:
The problem here is that people are referring to AOPA as the only choice. For those who are willing to drop the money, you can be a member of many organizations, the EAA and AOPA are 2 of them. For me, since AOPA does literally nothing, and takes credit for everything, EAA gets my money.

Remember, folks, AOPA is an advocacy group, not a magazine company, nor an insurance company.
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I have to say that it is the only realistic choice. I know that you were talking to someone from a similar organization at Gaston's last year, but I don't remember their name. U.S. Pilots Assoc. or something like that? Actually, the fact that I'm not clear on the name is fairly telling. If they have no mindshare with the average pilot, what sort of mindshare do you think they'll have with the average congesscritter? You could well make the argument that there should be another group, but until they reach critical mass, it's not going to be effective. And I wouldn't want to lose the voice we have with AOPA without having a viable alternative already there.

BTW, it looks as if I remembered the name correctly. www.uspilots.org.
From their site:
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]How do USPA and AOPA compare?
Aside from the obvious difference in size (AOPA has over 400,000 members, which is more than 50% of all certificated pilots in the United States), the two organizations are complementary:[/FONT]
  1. [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]
  2. USPA supports AOPA, and AOPA supports USPA. By participation in both organizations, members can multiply the opportunities to get their message out to those who regulate and control general aviation.
  3. USPA is a Internal Revenue Code Section 501(c)3 corporation composed of unpaid volunteers. AOPA has a large paid staff of aviation professionals. Each organization is quite effective in promoting general aviation, but at different levels. AOPA is most effective at the national level, whereas USPA's members are most effective at the state level and with local governments. USPA’s course is set at the grass roots level by its member input. Yet, each organization recognizes the need for what the other provides most effectively.[/FONT]
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and
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica][USPA is t]he largest national aviation pilot's organization governed entirely by its own members. It has more than 5000 members nation-wide in state association affiliates and local area chapters.[/FONT]
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wbarnhill said:
What purpose does the AOPA membership have for me?

I don't currently take advantage of renter's insurance, owner's insurance, legal plan, etc etc (see the point about limited cash flow).

About the only thing that I've seen worthwhile is the attempt to hold off user fees. So should that be the only reason I renew my membership?

Perhaps I'm just missing something.
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First off, you don't need to be a member to take advantage, they'll sell those to anyone.

As for member services, being able to download approach plates as I need them is good.
 
The benefits I get from AOPA are the legal plan, the online airport directory, and the flight planner.

But if I have a few bucks I want to donate for aviation it will go to EAA. Their focus is closer to the type of flying that I can afford.
 
Henning said:
As for member services, being able to download approach plates as I need them is good.
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DUAT has free plates for the download. I also like the graphical STAR and DP thing in the DUAT flight planner.
 
Every year I ask my self what good is the AOPA membership. I first joined
in like 1978 or something like that. I thought it was valuable. Now I'm
sitting on the fence.

I met a large number of really good people on the old AOPA chat. And I
liked being able to discuss about anything on the Red Board before they
closed it down .. then got rid of Hangar Talk and reopened a more
sanitary version of it instead of just stepping in and keeping control
of the old board. It was a slap in the face. Then they switched the card
over from MBNA (who I actually had good experience with financing
planes) to BOA (who pulled some underhanded crap to keep me from
closing the account).

AOPA sends me this fancy magazine that doesn't relate at all to the
flying I do and is full of stuff I can't afford.

I'm also an EAA member and I know they seem to struggle lately with
vision and all .. but they're more along the lines of the kind of flying
I do.

Will I renew my AOPA membership? I don't know. They don't ask me
they just bill my credit card. Not sure how that got started .. probably
with some small print opt out option.

Bottom line .. I like EAA .. I don't like AOPA.

RT
 
I appreciate everyones' input and I've decided to renew my membership. It really is a small price to pay, and I haven't been flying in a while so I literally forgot about the real time flight planner and kneeboard pages, which are a definite benefit.
 
Pi1otguy said:
Basically I view AOPA as a pilot's union and that analogy is pretty accurate in my mind. Basically in exchange for dues they attempt to lobby and by off legislatures on my behalf since every cause needs a special interest group to get what its members need/want.

Even though I don't agree with all their policies all the time I do feel that we pilots do need a group to lobby on our behalf. Sometimes I wonder how much more lobby powers they would have if some of their other products were liked by more of their members (credit card, etc).
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Bang. You nailed it except for one small point: Unions are for workers. AOPA serves the general pilot population, employment not required. It's sort of an opt-in "union" of like minded people striving for a "greater good" in their particular field of interest.

So, you have to be at least a little pro-union to want the AOPA around. You have to want some stuffed suit fighting for your "rights".

Hope I don't get this thread into The Spin Zone from my socialist views.
 
ScottPA said:
I agree, although I think hated is a strong word here. I would like to think of aviation, and more importantly "general aviation", as being more misunderstood. We are mostly viewed as a bunch of rich people spending wasteful amounts of money on overpriced airplanes and depleting fuel when the fact is that the greater majority of us are not rich and simply love the act of flying.
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Forgive the multiple posts, for I know not of the multi-quote. It's function eludes me.

Dispel the myth that misunderstood things are not hated. They very frequently are. I think in this case hated and misunderstood are synonyms.
 
Wow. When I read the subject line for this thread, I thought it would be fun to weigh in, but it looks like everyone has already covered the bases. You seem to be a tough crowd to please. The fact is, we all owe the AOPA a little bit of credit for their contribution in preserving the airspace system we all take for granted in the US.

As for me, I like the magazine (Sorry, Ken - I still haven't gotten around to subscribing to yours), I value the advocacy, and, I get a $40 discount on my glider insurance for being a member. Kind of weird, since AOPA doesn't really acknowledge gliders as real aircraft. If only they knew...
 
LONG...

It amazes me to see the differing opinions on this subject. To me it reflects how different we all are as pilots, and how we individually expect different things out of our attraction to aviation.

I've been an AOPA member since August of 1985, the month I started flying lessons. Every year I plop down $39.00 for membership dues. Hmmm... no increase in membership dues for 22 years. This is because AOPA has focused its revenue generation on advertising fees and other aviation-related services, like insurance, travel, etc. All those ads in AOPA Pilot for products that only the rich can afford have provided the revenues to support the organization, without an increase in dues. Thankfully the advertisers see a value in their contributions. Without them, dues would be $80.00 and membership would be 2,000. And as for the recycled articles year after year, every aviation publication does the same thing. The aviation industry is slow moving in new developments and products.

If the 9/11 terrorists brought down the Trade Center buildings by flinging peanut butter at them, the peanut butter industry would be fighting for its life right now. But they elected to use aircraft instead, so those of us in aviation are now having to fight for our seat at the table - all in the face an ignorant public, a one-sided media and a frenzied bunch of politicians. Someone commented that AOPA didn't do anything for the ADIZ/TFR situation. If it weren't for the AOPA, the whole country would be covered in restricted/prohibited airspace. The public wanted it, the politicians over-reacted and it was AOPA that a kept lid on the pot. We are now left with one new ADIZ around DC and a new TFR system. I'm not thrilled about it either but it sure beats the likely options.

The commercial aviation industry has decided that, since it cannot manage a profit out of its own revenues or out of government subsidies, it will now try to offset expenses by shifting costs onto general aviation. Their spin doctors take horrible scheduling, which is causing the worst delays in history, and try to convince the public that it is GA's fault by placing glossy ads in their own publications, as well as in national publications like USA Today and the New York Times. By lowering fuel and passenger taxes on commercial aviation, and increasing fuel taxes and placing user fees on general aviation, commercial aviation can reduce its bottom line (and increase its profits) without making a single change to remedy the root causes of a dysfunctional scheduling situation.

AOPA steps up to counter the attacks, sending representatives to Capital Hill every other day to educate the masses and fight for us little guys who have no real voice. This is a true David and Goliath story, since it is the AOPA up against the likes of United, USAir, Delta, Northwest, as well as the pilot's union. Dollar for dollar, these guys can outspend AOPA in a heartbeat but AOPA prevails. If it weren't for the AOPA, you would be seeing much higher taxes on 100LL next year, as well as a pay-by-use system for ATC. And it doesn't matter whether you are an AOPA member or not. Every one of us would be paying those new taxes and fees.

Lockheed-Martin and the AFSS - what a disaster. The FAA had decided that FSS modernization was long overdue so they proposed two options, add user fees to fund the upgrade or privatize the system. AOPA had to get behind one idea or the other and it appeared that privatization would have less of a financial impact on the average user. After all, we're talking Lockheed-Martin, right? They specialize in this kind of thing. For anyone who has tried to use FSS for the past year, I don't have to go into the shortcomings. I have given up on FSS and have opted for computerized flight plan filing and weather briefings and weather services in the cockpit. Could AOPA have done more to improve the FSS modernization? Maybe so but I don't know what. After all, privatization is a deal between the FAA and Lock-Mart. About all we can do is complain.

I can only imagine what AOPA could do with its resources, had it not had to fight the aftermath of 9/11 and the attacks by the airline industry. They'd probably be giving away a dozen Cardinals this year. Some of you have commented that the AOPA has become a lobbying agency. In part, that is true and I'm sure we all wish it could be otherwise. Although the fights on Capital Hill don't carry the glitter and pizzazz as the rollout of a new experimental or new jet, these battles and successes have continued to keep the air systems available to everyone. $39.00 dollars a year is a drop in the bucket to protect that access.

I hate to think of the AOPA membership as an either/or proposition - either its AOPA or EAA. For many of us with limited funds, I can appreciate the decision. But I see them as two different organizations with two different missions and I see a need to support both.

Jim
 
Thanks Jim, for giving voice to much of what I want to say, but have been to busy / weary / lazy to take time to type out. I'll add this as my postscript.

Perfect, they ain't, but neither am I.

AOPA, at its core, is still a compelling advocacy group for us, in a way that no other person or organization is.

Most importantly, given the contracting scope of GA, it is virtually certain that no other group could build up its size and stroke to exert the degree of influence that AOPA does.

All this, of course, disregards the extremely valuable work done by the AOPA Air Safety Foundation.

If you believe that AOPA is missing the boat on some issues, or doing the wrong thing on others, get involved! Attend Pilot Town Hall meetings and tell them (Phil does listen). Get acquainted with, and offer help and advice to, your Regional Rep (I know mine, she's a hard worker and very dedicated, and trust me, she ain't doin' it for the big money). Meet and help your respective ASN volunteers (or, if your airport hasn't got one, volunteer to be one).

What the heck, maybe even attend the Annual Meeting at LOM (maybe Adam buys you a cold one, you never know...).

It is hard to believe it because of its size and polish, but AOPA is still a member-driven organization, and if you want it to take a different path, get involved and give it a nudge. No organization ever suffered from having too many motivated volunteers.
 
I hate to think what it would be like without AOPA.

I have no doubt that if it wasn't for AOPA, the Washington ADIZ would have had the 50 or 100 mile radius--that's what the security people wanted.

As for the FSS debacle, as essentially the sole user of FSS, GA was going to get stuck with the bill and there is no way we could afford to pay what the FAA-run FSS system cost to run. The problem was in the execution, not the concept.
 
You guys want to know what GA would look like in America without the AOPA ?

Come to Israel and see for yourself !

The country is one big ADIZ (80% of the land), there is no VFR, only CONTROLLED VFR (you must file a flight plan and fly along designated corridors at a specified altitude).

Since our local AOPA association is basically doing NOTHING to improve the situation, there are new limitiations and restrictions on a monthly basis.

What do you get from your AOPA membership ?
Let's see...the political lobby, the excellent ASF internet courses, the Flight Planner, the baseball cap, the AOPA Pilot and Flight Safety magazines, the downloadable plates, the Airport Directory, the e-letter, the legal protection plan, the discounts on rental cars, the forums, the Flight1 excellent aircraft for Microsoft Flight Simulator, the Sweepstakes Aircraft, etc...

That's a lot for 40 bucks don't you think ?

Nothing is perfect and the AOPA isn't perfect - but, IMHO it is doing a very good job.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Forget the red board. Forget bizjets in the magazine. Forget N4GA.

Without a voice in Washington, and a seat at the Congressional hearings, GA might as well fold up now. You folks may see the ADIZ and LM situation as a total loss. I say, what if the AOPA was NOT there, doing its best to fight a bunch of 100 IQ politicians and their cheap political stunts? The ADIZ could cover the entire US. Hyperbole? Think about it, long and hard.

Don't forget airport advocacy. There are a lot of airports still open thanks to the work of the AOPA.

Has AOPA batted 1.000? No. I think they've done pretty well, though. I shudder to think of what might have happened, to pick two issues, on user fees and the ADIZ, had the AOPA not been in there fighting.

$40 is nothing -- maybe an hour of CFI time. Maybe you could get 1/2 hr in a 152. I see it as a small price to pay to protect an increasingly-embattled hobby (and that's what aviation is to many GA pilots).

Regards,

Andrew


A closing thought. Not to compare the plight of GA with the groups mentioned below, but merely to highlight the possible ramifications of inaction....

They came first for the Communists,and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,and by that time no one was left to speak up.
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My thoughts exactly. I've been a member of AOPA since 1975 and think my money was well spent. I've also been a member of EAA since 1978 along with their Vintage Aircraft division, and that money is less well spent, but not a loss.
My Dad joined AOPA in 1945 when the airlines were trying to take over the entire aerospace (they didn't call it that then) system, and it was AOPA that prevented that. Without them we'd be just like Europe.
Just IMHO, I'll continue to belong to both organizations. B)
 
SCCutler said:
If you believe that AOPA is missing the boat on some issues, or doing the wrong thing on others, get involved! Attend Pilot Town Hall meetings and tell them (Phil does listen). Get acquainted with, and offer help and advice to, your Regional Rep (I know mine, she's a hard worker and very dedicated, and trust me, she ain't doin' it for the big money). Meet and help your respective ASN volunteers (or, if your airport hasn't got one, volunteer to be one).
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I respectfully disagree here, Spike. I sent an email directly to Phil explaining why I was canceling my membership, and did get so much as a "Sorry" from Phil, or an explanation as to why they felt it was necessary to take money from the company that is destroying GA as we know it.

The point still remains that AOPA's ASN is about the ONLY thing AOPA runs that is worth anything that EAA doesn't already do better. AOPA takes credit for everything positive that happens in aviation, and pushes the blame to others for bad things.

AOPA doesn't care about the TFRs that are currently going on, it doesn't care that the ADIZ still exists years after the "temporary" measures were put in place. AOPA cares about User Fees, and User Fees only.

I wish I could find the video, but there is one floating around where Phil was on a talk show, defending GA, and he made pilots seems like morons, as he himself could not speak publically against the Airline advocate that was speaking against him. If that's the leader we follow, we're doomed. And that is why I chose not to follow him or the organization anymore.

Discounts on insurance or the magazine subscription should never even be brought into these discussions, as AOPA is an advocacy group. They use those "perks" to get more money for advocacy. But if their advocacy is misrouted, than everyone is wasting money. The day I see AOPA actually fight like they did in the days pre 2001, I'll rejoin as a member. But until then, when they follow a lame, useless leader, I'm out.
 
Nick, I'd recommend attending a Town Hall Meeting next time he's in Albuquerque or perhaps jump over to one in Phoenix. Make that a question in open forum. I'm sure you wouldn't be the only one in attendance who wonders why they should continue.

I missed this last one but went to one last year. It's well worth the effort.
 
gprellwitz said:
In other words, your insurance company is paying for your AOPA membership. Cool!
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Grant (et al.), how many ways do we have to say it? Gliders are where it's at!

Some more fuel for the fire: I make every effort to attend AOPA town hall events and others. I've found Phil B., our regional reps, and other AOPA staff to be very hard working, accessible and open to discussion. Like anything else, if you don't like what they're doing, make sure you put some effort into understanding their view and then find a way to communicate yours.

I don't believe AOPA has a periscope focus exclusively on user fees. For starters, they're saving airports across the US, lobbying for a version of Next Gen that won't require $10,000 worth of new avionics in a $10,000 airplane, researching, understanding, and improving safety, and chiseling away at the post-911 TFRs. If anyone could do more than AOPA has with my $40, I'd be happy to pay them. I'd even go $41. And give them a ride in my 140. But only if they are working on their glider rating. ;)

Matthew
 
SkyHog said:
I respectfully disagree here, Spike. I sent an email directly to Phil explaining why I was canceling my membership, and did get so much as a "Sorry" from Phil, or an explanation as to why they felt it was necessary to take money from the company that is destroying GA as we know it.

The point still remains that AOPA's ASN is about the ONLY thing AOPA runs that is worth anything that EAA doesn't already do better. AOPA takes credit for everything positive that happens in aviation, and pushes the blame to others for bad things.

AOPA doesn't care about the TFRs that are currently going on, it doesn't care that the ADIZ still exists years after the "temporary" measures were put in place. AOPA cares about User Fees, and User Fees only.

I wish I could find the video, but there is one floating around where Phil was on a talk show, defending GA, and he made pilots seems like morons, as he himself could not speak publically against the Airline advocate that was speaking against him. If that's the leader we follow, we're doomed. And that is why I chose not to follow him or the organization anymore.

Discounts on insurance or the magazine subscription should never even be brought into these discussions, as AOPA is an advocacy group. They use those "perks" to get more money for advocacy. But if their advocacy is misrouted, than everyone is wasting money. The day I see AOPA actually fight like they did in the days pre 2001, I'll rejoin as a member. But until then, when they follow a lame, useless leader, I'm out.
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A more uninformed opinion based on a total lack of knowledge and facts does not exist. Come on out to SoCal and I'll take you on a tour of the airports AOPA has, along with local efforts, saved. It will take most of the day. There are many, but even if it were only one, it would be worth my $40.00/yr. Last time you bashed AOPA on these boards, I offered to take you to an EAA, Chapter One meeting so you could see for yourself that on most issues, EAA aligns itself with AOPA, including user fees. I've suggested, in the past, you go to at least one AOPA Town Hall meeting and see what it's all about. Have you gone to any? If you'd go, you could meet Phil personally, voice your complaints, and I'm sure get some sort of answer to your questions. He's very approachable. EAA does not have the connections inside the beltway to get much done in the GA advocacy arena. With numerous influential congresspeople being AOPA members, AOPA has the clout to be heard. Finally, you state that AOPA is an advocacy group. I don't think they'd have any problem agreeing with you. It's exactly what they exist to be. Get real Nick.
 
HLT said:
A more uninformed opinion based on a total lack of knowledge and facts does not exist. Come on out to SoCal and I'll take you on a tour of the airports AOPA has, along with local efforts, saved. It will take most of the day. There are many, but even if it were only one, it would be worth my $40.00/yr. Last time you bashed AOPA on these boards, I offered to take you to an EAA, Chapter One meeting so you could see for yourself that on most issues, EAA aligns itself with AOPA, including user fees. I've suggested, in the past, you go to at least one AOPA Town Hall meeting and see what it's all about. Have you gone to any? If you'd go, you could meet Phil personally, voice your complaints, and I'm sure get some sort of answer to your questions. He's very approachable. EAA does not have the connections inside the beltway to get much done in the GA advocacy arena. With numerous influential congresspeople being AOPA members, AOPA has the clout to be heard. Finally, you state that AOPA is an advocacy group. I don't think they'd have any problem agreeing with you. It's exactly what they exist to be. Get real Nick.
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You are both misrepresenting my statements, and twisting facts. I agree that the ASN is a huge deal that AOPA does. You've never talked to me before, directly or indirectly (unless you go under a different name elsewhere), and you've never invited me to any meetings anywhere.

What has AOPA done in the last year for GA? Taken credit for things it had no part in, as far as I can tell. I can only say that I emailed Phil with no response, and I was amicable, and not rude in my email to him.

AOPA has no clout aside from like 5 senators, of which many have actually voted against AOPA in certain issues (McCain was an AOPA supporter at one time if you remember correctly).

When I called to cancel my membership, I was met with "Oh, you disagree with our source of funding? OK." and thats it.

FWIW, I got mail today from AOPA, asking for money for something. I'm not even a member anymore. Fine organization, eh?

But yes, the ASN is amazing, and if that is all that matters to anyone, AOPA is worth the money. But the ASN is but a small part of what AOPA stands for. AOPA really stands for taking credit for others' deeds, and taking money where ever it can, and applying it to user fees, and no where else.
 
SkyHog said:
What has AOPA done in the last year for GA? Taken credit for things it had no part in, as far as I can tell. I can only say that I emailed Phil with no response, and I was amicable, and not rude in my email to him.
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You mentiond that before. What actions have they taken credit for?

I'm sure he gets a large volume of emails. One's bound to get lost. Send another or better... send snail mail. So often, that's looked at as a more sincere effort and indication of concern.

FWIW, I got mail today from AOPA, asking for money for something. I'm not even a member anymore. Fine organization, eh?
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Such mailings are handled by vendors or brokers or even a division of a large printer. A mailing list was likely released months ago in preparation for what you received. I've seen a lot of these activities as a courier.

A stands for. AOPA really stands for taking credit for others' deeds, and taking money where ever it can, and applying it to user fees, and no where else.
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Ya lost me on this. What is lacking? Where are they failing?
 
EAA,, AOPA.. I am a member of both.. both for the same reason. Advocacy! We are a minority in a world of big dollars competing for political favor.. join both, support both, make your opinions known,, get involved. the alternative is evidenced in Australia and the European Union, where they have driven GA into the ground and the only option is LSA and ultralight. I for one still like to make a cross country once in while. You have to support someone to stick up for your rights.
 
KennyFlys said:
You mentiond that before. What actions have they taken credit for?
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A few examples: The ADIZ shrinking. AOPA didn't even know about it until their own members started talking, an AOPA reluctantly mentioned on their website that it is just a rumor and not likely to happen. Seeing how AOPA had no knowledge of it, they probably had squat specifically to do with it changing, but that didn't stop a big notice on their website taking credit for the change.

The change to 3rd class medicals was never mentioned by AOPA ever before, but they still took credit when the change happened.

The addition of LSA. EAA did most of the work on getting that pushed through, but AOPA proudly stood there and announced that it happened due to their efforts.

I'm sure he gets a large volume of emails. One's bound to get lost. Send another or better... send snail mail. So often, that's looked at as a more sincere effort and indication of concern.
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Its not worth my time anymore. AOPA can be a great organization again someday, but it will never change if people sheep to them, and keep saying they're doing a great job when they are obviously not.

Such mailings are handled by vendors or brokers or even a division of a large printer. A mailing list was likely released months ago in preparation for what you received. I've seen a lot of these activities as a courier.
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That is a bit shady, IMHO, but still not as bad as the massive amounts of recruitment mail that I got from AOPA when I already was a member. I calculated it 2 years ago, and determined that postage alone was costing more than my yearly membership dues. And no matter how many time I called to ask to have it stopped, it kept coming.

Ya lost me on this. What is lacking? Where are they failing?
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AOPA has, for the last year or longer (probably closer to 2 years) become soft on every issue that was not User Fees. When ridiculous TFRs popped up, shutting down the already ridiculous ADIZ, AOPA said nothing more than "Hey guys, stay out of the ADIZ!" and never fought it. A few years ago, AOPA would have been outraged. Same with the Mexican border TFRs. Where is AOPA in the fight against the Chicago regime that is essentially endangering pilots' lives by not allowing them safe routes around Chicago? Why is AOPA not attempting to smear Daley in Chicago to get someone else in office? Why is the FAA working so closely with the EAA on a lot of things, and not with AOPA? I don't know of any "AOPA/FAA waivers" or publications joint published either.

Without Phil, AOPA will be a good organization again. Phil has gone soft.
 
I can't speak fully to the first few items you mention.

SkyHog said:
That is a bit shady, IMHO, but still not as bad as the massive amounts of recruitment mail that I got from AOPA when I already was a member. I calculated it 2 years ago, and determined that postage alone was costing more than my yearly membership dues. And no matter how many time I called to ask to have it stopped, it kept coming.
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That's not directly on AOPA. They hire an agent to send out mailings with the intent to increase membership numbers. The contract is usually written to cover a given number of mailings. It's done by mass mailing with a list from some source, in our case usually the FAA. The agent will attempt to remove current member names from the final list but some are missed. To get greater accuracy cost them more money than it would to just send those mailers to a few current members.

AOPA has, for the last year or longer (probably closer to 2 years) become soft on every issue that was not User Fees. When ridiculous TFRs popped up, shutting down the already ridiculous ADIZ, AOPA said nothing more than "Hey guys, stay out of the ADIZ!" and never fought it. A few years ago, AOPA would have been outraged. Same with the Mexican border TFRs. Where is AOPA in the fight against the Chicago regime that is essentially endangering pilots' lives by not allowing them safe routes around Chicago? Why is AOPA not attempting to smear Daley in Chicago to get someone else in office? Why is the FAA working so closely with the EAA on a lot of things, and not with AOPA? I don't know of any "AOPA/FAA waivers" or publications joint published either.
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Seeing how TFRs are called for by a number of given agencies and for so many given reasons, AOPA cannot be expected to fight every one. The greatest fight on those are with the TSA and other agencies within the DHS.

I'm sure there are things going to be missed. Heck, look at how many things Congress tries to or does sneak into a bill and it's never caught until signed into law.

As far as AOPA working with the FAA, it does happen. And, it's happening in one of the most needed areas, safety. Fortunately, the FAA's operations side and AOPA have a common cause in that regard. The same applies between the FAA and EAA. As said, EAA has a different agenda but the two organizations compliment each other.

There's nothing common in the cause between the FAA's administrative side with that of AOPA. That's where user fees come in. The admin side is full of political appointees who are almost always not an ally to GA pilots. The only solution is to fight most matters through members of Congress. That's why you would get emails or snail mail and asking you to contact your congressman.

As for the "smearing" of Daly, that's an act of dirty politics. I don't see AOPA ever taking such a dive. If they did, I'd quit.
 
My deceased father used to say, "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still". Skyhog seems to have made up his mind that the AOPA does not represent a good value for the expenditure. I have to respect that, and also respectfully disagree. At the same time, I think I could research several items that would prove contrary to Skyhog's contentions, but I do not think that it would change his mind.

Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree. I do not believe that Skyhog would find value in the AOPA, even if every one of his issues was addressed and corrected. I would volunteer to do the research, if I thought it would be productive.

I too hold strong opinions, at times, that likely won't change, no matter how many facts are presented to the contrary.
 
jimbtv said:
My deceased father used to say, "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still". Skyhog seems to have made up his mind that the AOPA does not represent a good value for the expenditure. I have to respect that, and also respectfully disagree. At the same time, I think I could research several items that would prove contrary to Skyhog's contentions, but I do not think that it would change his mind.

Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree. I do not believe that Skyhog would find value in the AOPA, even if every one of his issues was addressed and corrected. I would volunteer to do the research, if I thought it would be productive.

I too hold strong opinions, at times, that likely won't change, no matter how many facts are presented to the contrary.
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This is actually true to an extent. My only response is that the day that AOPA starts acting with GA's best interests as a whole in mind will be the day that I resume my membership, and to me, that means replacing Phil Boyer.
 
SkyHog said:
This is actually true to an extent. My only response is that the day that AOPA starts acting with GA's best interests as a whole in mind will be the day that I resume my membership, and to me, that means replacing Phil Boyer.
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Have you ever met the man? Phil isn't the end all of AOPA. He reports to people above him like the rest of the world.
 
jesse said:
Have you ever met the man? Phil isn't the end all of AOPA. He reports to people above him like the rest of the world.
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Who is above Phil at AOPA? I cannot find an official hierarchy, but he is listed as the "President" of AOPA, which leads me to believe that he does not report to anyone except the members.

One does not have to talk with someone in person to know about them. Meeting them in person gives them the ability to smooth talk you. I listen more to actions than words.
 
SkyHog said:
Who is above Phil at AOPA? I cannot find an official hierarchy, but he is listed as the "President" of AOPA, which leads me to believe that he does not report to anyone except the members.

One does not have to talk with someone in person to know about them. Meeting them in person gives them the ability to smooth talk you. I listen more to actions than words.
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When I saw him in person last year he said he reports to the AOPA board of directors. He also made it sound like as of recent they have had increases differences in opinion.. I don't see mention of it on their site--but I doubt he was making it up.
 
jesse said:
When I saw him in person last year he said he reports to the AOPA board of directors. He also made it sound like as of recent they have had increases differences in opinion.. I don't see mention of it on their site--but I doubt he was making it up.
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I doubt he was too, my last post was more inquisitive than accusatory. Even if Phil is not the end of the line, he is the one that publicly makes statements. We could use a stronger representative.
 
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