Lycoming SB 632 - a disaster?

jallen0 said:
Quick question because I am confused. Why is the manufacturer of the failed parts not liabile for the repair/replacement costs? Why is it on the plane owner, they purchased the parts / repairs in good faith?
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Because it's aviation.
 
It's gotten worse... it is no longer a MSB, it's an AD.

Fortunately the one plane I have that is impacted is a club plane. If it was my RV I'd have to pay the whole bill. How's that for spraying rosy smelling sunshine dust?
 
Thanks to Lucifer, A4M is not impacted.... I will keep knocking on wood rest of the evening

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btw, if your plane is affected, DO THE AD NOW! A friend of mine dodged a bullet, their engine was about to blow up because of it when they did the inspection (the bushing was completely loose). It's not like the Continental cam gear BS MSB, this one is for real.
 
In the '90s TCM had a rod issue in IO-360KB engines. They issued a mandatory service bulletin and everyone ignored it. I had a rod break when the plane was in flight. Not long after I got it fixed (that took months) another Hawk XP that was identical crashed after losing a rod. I take rod bulletins seriously as a result. That this is an AD instead of a service bulletin will probably prove to be a good thing in the long run.

The next interesting thing will be how shops do it. Remove all cylinders at once? One at a time? What happens when a through rod nut spalls and seizes? Some guys are in for a nightmare, for sure. Especially the small overhaul shops that can't afford to stop doing paying work to deal with this. I have no doubt the lawyers are already warming up for a fight.
 
WannFly said:
Thanks to Lucifer, A4M is not impacted.... I will keep knocking on wood rest of the evening
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I'm not following you. There are indeed O-360-A4M engines that will be affected by this.
 
mondtster said:
I'm not following you. There are indeed O-360-A4M engines that will be affected by this.
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Huh? I better open the pdf again. I thought I didn't see the model there. In any case, my engine wasn't touched in that time frame... That is logged anywhere

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How does one even know an AD like this applies? Isn't like we all know the serial numbers of our engines off the top of our pointy little heads. At least I don't, given that I have a life.
 
steingar said:
How does one even know an AD like this applies? Isn't like we all know the serial numbers of our engines off the top of our pointy little heads. At least I don't, given that I have a life.
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I got an email from FAA, then I overlooked the fact that A4M was listed and was happy. Thanks to @mtuomi , found out it is indeed there, dropped everything and opened the SB again, posted by @Pilawt , started breathing heavily, found out my SN is not listed. back to normal life

moral: subscribe to AD mailer from FAA + pay attention to POA (mandatory) + memorize every serial number in your plane (or have the log book handy :p)
 
@steingar - it is incumbent on the shop to know where the parts went, and when the SB or AD is issued the MFG has to contact the shop who traces where they went.
i confirmed I was okay by calling the shop that did the RV.

The mechanic that installed in the Cardinal said, sorry, your involved. (or words to that effect) and we said !@#$%^&*^%
 
WannFly said:
moral: subscribe to AD mailer from FAA + pay attention to POA (mandatory) + memorize every serial number in your plane (or have the log book handy :p)
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My airplane's log books live with my airplane, not with me. And when I'm with my airplane I usually have better things to do than look up serial numbers. To be honest I don't even know where to find an engine serial number.

Only in aviation can a company cock it up completely, create an unsafe condition, and then not bother to contact the affected parties.
 
steingar said:
My airplane's log books live with my airplane, not with me. And when I'm with my airplane I usually have better things to do than look up serial numbers. To be honest I don't even know where to find an engine serial number.

Only in aviation can a company cock it up completely, create an unsafe condition, and then not bother to contact the affected parties.
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donno but my log books are NEVER in the plane... engine serial number can be found on the plate stuck to the engine and pretty impossible to read, it should also be printed in the engine log book
 
jallen0 said:
Quick question because I am confused. Why is the manufacturer of the failed parts not liabile for the repair/replacement costs? Why is it on the plane owner, they purchased the parts / repairs in good faith?
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Hahaha haha! Welcome to Lycoming world....where lobby money saves their bacon and screws yours! Long time gouge by all of them. Their excuse is if they were responsible you'd never afford their crap in the first place.
Like it's remotely reasonably priced now.....
 
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Goofy said:
Hahaha haha! Welcome to Lycoming world....where lobby money saves their bacon and screws yours! Long time gouge by all of them. Their excuse is if they were responsible you'd never afford their crap in the first place.
Like it's remotely reasonably priced now.....
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Isn't that true for other engine manufacturers as well? I am not affected by this one, but makes me wonder what crap they will come up with that will cost me 8 grand which should have been fixed by them in the first place

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WannFly said:
I got an email from FAA, then I overlooked the fact that A4M was listed and was happy. Thanks to @mtuomi , found out it is indeed there, dropped everything and opened the SB again, posted by @Pilawt , started breathing heavily, found out my SN is not listed. back to normal life

moral: subscribe to AD mailer from FAA + pay attention to POA (mandatory) + memorize every serial number in your plane (or have the log book handy :p)
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Just because your serial number is not listed does not mean you don't have bad bushings. If your engine was disassembled and the rods reworked the bushings used in the connecting rods may be from the questionable lot.

You will not find the engine I overhauled in that time period on that list. The rods were reworked by Aircraft Specialties, which required me to check with them to see what bushings got used in my rods. Thankfully they were Superior bushings...
 
mondtster said:
Just because your serial number is not listed does not mean you don't have bad bushings. If your engine was disassembled and the rods reworked the bushings used in the connecting rods may be from the questionable lot.

You will not find the engine I overhauled in that time period on that list. The rods were reworked by Aircraft Specialties, which required me to check with them to see what bushings got used in my rods. Thankfully they were Superior bushings...
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That's why I asked WannFly when his engine was overhauled. The faulty bushings were first shipped out to engine rebuilders November 2015. His engine is a '09, so he is safe. His engine is also a factory reman, and they have a full list of the engines where faulty bushings were installed.
WannFly should be fine with this.
 
mtuomi said:
That's why I asked WannFly when his engine was overhauled. The faulty bushings were first shipped out to engine rebuilders November 2015. His engine is a '09, so he is safe. His engine is also a factory reman, and they have a full list of the engines where faulty bushings were installed.
WannFly should be fine with this.
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I agree he is likely just fine, but if there was rod work during that period he may not be. Going solely by Last overhaul date is not sufficient to determine this. A review of the logs for major engine work during the questionable period is necessary (for everyone, not just Wannfly).
 
mondtster said:
I agree he is likely just fine, but if there was rod work during that period he may not be. Going solely by Last overhaul date is not sufficient to determine this. A review of the logs for major engine work during the questionable period is necessary (for everyone, not just Wannfly).
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You're right. That's how we got pulled in. There was a crack in our case that was leaking oil, so pulled it apart, welded it up, got it back together... and then... last month we found out we got some "questionable" bushings in the process.
 
mondtster said:
Just because your serial number is not listed does not mean you don't have bad bushings. If your engine was disassembled and the rods reworked the bushings used in the connecting rods may be from the questionable lot.

You will not find the engine I overhauled in that time period on that list. The rods were reworked by Aircraft Specialties, which required me to check with them to see what bushings got used in my rods. Thankfully they were Superior bushings...
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That's odd!! Shouldnt the AD list all engines that are affected?? In any case, mine wasn't opened in that time frame

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WannFly said:
That's odd!! Shouldnt the AD list all engines that are affected?? In any case, mine wasn't opened in that time frame

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The AD lists all engine for which Lycoming did the work. And then includes the time periods for which other shops need to check records.

Tim
 
WannFly said:
That's odd!! Shouldnt the AD list all engines that are affected?? In any case, mine wasn't opened in that time frame
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Lycoming has no idea who is doing what to one of their engines, unless it comes into their facility for them to do the work. There are tons of independent engine shops and FBOs across the US and other countries that also overhaul and do major work to these engines on a daily basis. If one of these shops or even simply a power plant mechanic sent an engine's rods in for reconditioning during this time period the bushings may be suspect.
 
steingar said:
How does one even know an AD like this applies? Isn't like we all know the serial numbers of our engines off the top of our pointy little heads. At least I don't, given that I have a life.
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steingar said:
My airplane's log books live with my airplane, not with me. And when I'm with my airplane I usually have better things to do than look up serial numbers. To be honest I don't even know where to find an engine serial number.

Only in aviation can a company cock it up completely, create an unsafe condition, and then not bother to contact the affected parties.
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Most of us don't keep the logbooks anywhere near the airplane. They're far too valuable to trust to a typical hangar. Security and environmental variables in most hangars are pretty bad.

I'd say most of us have them locked up at home in a fire safe as a bare minimum. Many also keep their own personal logbooks somewhere similar when not needed for training and signatures.

The only time our aircraft logs are anywhere near the airplane or airport is when there's work to be done and the mechanic needs to see them. Even for minor things nowadays, they just do the work and hand you a sticker, and you go put the sticker into the books which are elsewhere. And checkrides. For the DPE.
 
Separate from my logbook commentary for the Professor...

I was told the Turbo Seminole I was flying got tagged by this AD, so it's going down again soon for the inspection.

The owner said he talked to one of the larger shops on the home 'drome, and they've already figured out the tooling necessary and the inspection process, and have had ten aircraft through the shop or currently in the shop being checked.

One in ten has had the suspect bearings, so far. Doesn't mean anything in particular, but it's interesting that it's been that low locally.
 
denverpilot said:
Most of us don't keep the logbooks anywhere near the airplane. They're far too valuable to trust to a typical hangar. Security and environmental variables in most hangars are pretty bad.

I'd say most of us have them locked up at home in a fire safe as a bare minimum. Many also keep their own personal logbooks somewhere similar when not needed for training and signatures.

The only time our aircraft logs are anywhere near the airplane or airport is when there's work to be done and the mechanic needs to see them. Even for minor things nowadays, they just do the work and hand you a sticker, and you go put the sticker into the books which are elsewhere. And checkrides. For the DPE.
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Most of us have scanned our logbooks, smartphones make this easy. I have a memory stick attached to key ring, I keep the logbooks in my possession, give the IA an electronic version. My pilot logbook is also electronic but I still keep a hard copy as well.
 
Most of us have scanned our logbooks, smartphones make this easy. I have a memory stick attached to key ring, I keep the logbooks in my possession, give the IA an electronic version. My pilot logbook is also electronic but I still keep a hard copy as well

Teejay,
What app did you use to stich the scanned images together when you scanned the logs?
Gary
 
GaryV said:
Most of us have scanned our logbooks, smartphones make this easy. I have a memory stick attached to key ring, I keep the logbooks in my possession, give the IA an electronic version. My pilot logbook is also electronic but I still keep a hard copy as well

Teejay,
What app did you use to stich the scanned images together when you scanned the logs?
Gary
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Tiny scanner takes actual photos, there is iscanner it has autocrop and processes the image, less photo like, more scanner like. They turn it into a pdf.
 
I didn't see cylinder kits listed in the AD. Do piston/cylinder kits from Lycoming include new conrod bushing? I wouldn't think so, but I've never taken an airplane engine apart.
 
It looks like I dodged a bullet on this one... no IO-360-A1B6 engines appear to be listed, and my engine hasn't been touched since it was installed in 2010. <whew>
 
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