Cirrus v Cessna 400?

MetalCloud said:
And sales numbers mean something, whether folks want to admit it or not. Cirrus has a winnig combination. Other manufacturers just don't right now. That could change later sure... people love to hate on the planes and company and pilots and I just don't know why.
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What it means is although there are a lot of cirrus haters, those people aren't buying planes, or when then the time comes to write the check they have a change of heart.
 
I think before you jump to this conclusion, look at how many airplane purchases happen annually. Compare that to new production. The point being that used aircraft can still account for the bulk of purchase decisions.


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gsengle said:
I think before you jump to this conclusion, look at how many airplane purchases happen annually. Compare that to new production. The point being that used aircraft can still account for the bulk of purchase decisions.


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now....lets think about that for a moment. :D

What makes a market?....price point and features?
 
gsengle said:
I think before you jump to this conclusion, look at how many airplane purchases happen annually. Compare that to new production. The point being that used aircraft can still account for the bulk of purchase decisions.


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The health of GM and Ford isn't based on their used car sells.
If I were buying a mooney for example. I would buy used because their product hasn't changed much in over a decade. Probably Ovation, fiki, g1000, gfc 700, ac. Problem is my useful load would be in mid 800's. So I would lose a seat and 400 lbs of useful. Ouch. Oh. And I forgot about not having a chute.
 
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dennyleeb said:
The health of GM and Ford isn't based on their used car sells. Or maybe your saying the others haven't improved their product in 30 years so why buy new.
If I were buying a mooney for example. I would buy used.
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True. Used market is a totally different discussion in some ways.

I'd guess there are more new cirrus sales than used cirrus sales in a given year as well, though I could be way off. Just a guess based on what I've seen on Controller. If true, I think that's pretty damn interesting.
 
MetalCloud said:
True. Used market is a totally different discussion in some ways.

I'd guess there are more new cirrus sales than used cirrus sales in a given year as well, though I could be way off. Just a guess based on what I've seen on Controller. If true, I think that's pretty damn interesting.
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I really needed/wanted the options a G5 gave me. The used G5 market was so strong that I just didn't see a point in buying used.
 
Aviation is not cars. New absolutely competes with used in a way and in a quantity that is substantially different.

You can saturate a market for planes in a way you can't a market for cars, being much more disposable...


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gsengle said:
Aviation is not cars. New absolutely competes with used in a way and in a quantity that is substantially different.

You can saturate a market for planes in a way you can't a market for cars, being much more disposable...


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But cheeseburgers is? Lol. You all never cease to amaze me.
 
It went to a different point, to simply prove that volume <> best. Cmon you're argument is stronger if you concede obvious truths...


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gsengle said:
It went to a different point, to simply prove that volume <> best. Cmon you're argument is stronger if you concede obvious truths...


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LMAO
 
MetalCloud said:
If the TTx was an overall better buy, it would be leading. Pure and simple. It's not, so it isn't.
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And many of us here reject that analysis... we think it's a bit more nuanced.

A couple of folks have said that with BRS, they'd have chosen the TTx.

Examples were given to show that there are instances where volume doesn't equal best. He'll look at Microsoft. How many victims of this weeks malware are happy with them this week?

I'm not weighing in on this debate, I've never flown a TTx. But I do like to keep the arguments factual and fallacy free.


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dennyleeb said:
But cheeseburgers is? Lol. You all never cease to amaze me.
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ya but.....:D
6a00d83453e66269e201b7c7c5a9a0970b-pi
 
gsengle said:
And many of us here reject that analysis... we think it's a bit more nuanced.

A couple of folks have said that with BRS, they'd have chosen the TTx.

Examples were given to show that there are instances where volume doesn't equal best. He'll look at Microsoft. How many victims of this weeks malware are happy with them this week?

I'm not weighing in on this debate, I've never flown a TTx. But I do like to keep the arguments factual and fallacy free.


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DBA
 
gsengle said:
And many of us here reject that analysis... we think it's a bit more nuanced.

A couple of folks have said that with BRS, they'd have chosen the TTx.

Examples were given to show that there are instances where volume doesn't equal best. He'll look at Microsoft. How many victims of this weeks malware are happy with them this week?

I'm not weighing in on this debate, I've never flown a TTx. But I do like to keep the arguments factual and fallacy free.


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Whether you think so or not you ARE weighing in btw.

And saying "if the TTx had a chute people would have chosen it" means nothing. It doesn't. Fact. Not fallacy.
 
MetalCloud said:
Whether you think so or not you ARE weighing in btw.

And saying "if the TTx had a chute people would have chosen it" means nothing. It doesn't. Fact. Not fallacy.
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I didn't say that. I said that people said that. Fact. In this thread.

And no I don't think pointing out logical fallacies is putting in an opinion.

The OP asked for a comparison. Since I haven't flown a TTx, I can't compare.


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I didn't say you said that… Fact.

You have a couple of cirrus owners here who have objectively said why they chose the plane over the TTx. Fact.

I compared the of the two side-by-side and the cirrus won. I explained why. Fact.
 
Yep people have chosen both, Cirrus is winning in this comparison in the market. You think it's the better choice.

But what's helpful to the poster is comparing different attributes so he/she can weigh them and come to their own conclusion.

So there is no winner for the title of "best", it's ultimately subjective. Best in what way?


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Exactly. What's best for one isn't best for the other. What gets annoying is when people don't accept that.
 
MetalCloud said:
Exactly. What's best for one isn't best for the other. What gets annoying is when people don't accept that.
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And that's kinda what I was trying to call people out for. One just comes off has having drunk the kool aid and biased if you don't actually just tell people why it was best for you or not. I'd ya just say "it sells the most so it's the best".

I like the BRS system a lot. I like the cabin and useful load. But for me other items are deal breakers. But ditto on the TTx, I like a retract. Doesn't help this debate. I don't like the trim/control system on the Cirrus at all. And then I could weigh in on how the planes look, but that's purely personal.


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ocflyer said:
I don't understand why the other manufacturers don't get it, they either need to drastically reduce their pricing in order to offset this or they need to compete with Cirrus on this front which basically means BRS or modern twin (which is basically a DA42-VI ).
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The DA-42-VI is actually a really good comp to the SR22T.
 
gsengle said:
I didn't say that. I said that people said that. Fact. In this thread.

And no I don't think pointing out logical fallacies is putting in an opinion.

The OP asked for a comparison. Since I haven't flown a TTx, I can't compare.


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So how many hours do you have as pilot in command in a SR 22?
 
labbadabba said:
The DA-42-VI is actually a really good comp to the SR22T.
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If only it had a sidestick. Or even a yoke.

Especially the DA62. Every single thing about the marketing of that plane screams "travel". Why, oh why, would you add a center stick.
 
deonb said:
If only it had a sidestick. Or even a yoke.

Especially the DA62. Every single thing about the marketing of that plane screams "travel". Why, oh why, would you add a center stick.
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I prefer the stick to a yoke. I haven't flown a sidestick. But I have flown a 'stoke' though, lol.
 
gsengle said:
But what's helpful to the poster is comparing different attributes so he/she can weigh them and come to their own conclusion.
I like a retract. I don't like the trim/control system on the Cirrus at all. I could weigh in on how the planes look, but that's purely personal.
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Do you read your own posts?
 
dennyleeb said:
So how many hours do you have as pilot in command in a SR 22?
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Enough to evaluate how I feel about the handling. And the trim. But not very much. Basically an extended demo flight. How much stick time do any of ya have in a TTx? And apropos of other conversations, in an Acclaim? Point is I have flown one. I haven't flown a TTx so I'm refraining from commenting.


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labbadabba said:
I prefer the stick to a yoke. I haven't flown a sidestick. But I have flown a 'stoke' though, lol.
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Ah, the spork of aircraft control :-o


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gsengle said:
Enough to evaluate how I feel about the handling. And the trim. But not very much. Basically an extended demo flight. How much stick time do any of ya have in a TTx? And apropos of other conversations, in an Acclaim? Point is I have flown one. I haven't flown a TTx so I'm refraining from commenting.


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So you have less than a hour (or so) in a cirrus but feel comfortable making a full judgement in thread after thread about them. This keeps getting better. Normally this type of entertainment is $$$
 
I've had the opportunity to fly the 22T and the TTx. I will say there zero question on the matter that the TTx flies and handles (and even looks) better in my book. However if I were to be buying new today I'd get a 22T. Simply because for about 20 knots more, I'd rather be 20 knots less and be able to have the added useful load of the 22T and the added interior comfort of it as well is worth more than those knots and handling.
 
dennyleeb said:
So you have less than a hour (or so) in a cirrus but feel comfortable making a full judgement in thread after thread about them. This keeps getting better. Normally this type of entertainment is $$$
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More than an hour. My opinion, which I'm trying to withhold on this thread is just my opinion, and it is based on *far* more than my subjective flying experience.

But just curious how much TTx time do you have?


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