Let more banning begin!

The minute I can't carry my laptop on a flight is the minute I send my apologies to the IEC and other organizations and resign my leadership positions. I will NOT check a laptop as I don't want it stolen. These "security" people need to get hit up the side of the head by reality.
 
I'm in the same corner of the ring as Nate, or at least I think I am. what the TSA is doing is mostly for show to make the sheeple feel safe and produces little results. Sure, they catch some fool who thinks he can carry on a plane, but does that equate to stopping terrorists? Nope, they will find a way to defeat most security procedures. Being the right to profile set the plan back ages. Think Israel and their screening procedures. We are not allowed to do that but they have not had an incident in a long time. Nuff said.
 
Norman said:
I'm in the same corner of the ring as Nate, or at least I think I am. what the TSA is doing is mostly for show to make the sheeple feel safe and produces little results. Sure, they catch some fool who thinks he can carry on a plane, but does that equate to stopping terrorists? Nope, they will find a way to defeat most security procedures. Being the right to profile set the plan back ages. Think Israel and their screening procedures. We are not allowed to do that but they have not had an incident in a long time. Nuff said.
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Agreed... But the bleeding hearts will gnash their teeth and wring their hands if we implement that.. Not getting political Mods. Just saying :)
 
Norman said:
I'm in the same corner of the ring as Nate, or at least I think I am. what the TSA is doing is mostly for show to make the sheeple feel safe and produces little results. Sure, they catch some fool who thinks he can carry on a plane, but does that equate to stopping terrorists? Nope, they will find a way to defeat most security procedures. Being the right to profile set the plan back ages. Think Israel and their screening procedures. We are not allowed to do that but they have not had an incident in a long time. Nuff said.
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I kind of agree, but comparison to Israel is not very good. Israel has 2(Tel Aviv and Eilat) Major international airports and 3(Eilat and Haifa) more minor. Tel Aviv handles around 18 mil passenger per year. Next one - less than 2 mil... No hubs, no connections, 6 airlines with biggest having only about 50 destinations and next one is less than half of that. 80%+ of travel is international
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airports_in_Israel#By_passenger_numbers

Here is the list of US major airports and traffic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_the_United_States

Tel Aviv is about level to #13 on our list.

I've flown though Tel Aviv a few times during the lull in Israel/Arab fighting in the 90s. Great security, but small airport and lengthy process. While some of that can be implemented in US, we couldn't come close to the level or scrutiny here or the entire airline business will come to a halt.
 
pmanton said:
It seems to me filling a laptop with semtex and having it still work to get by inspection wouldn't be terrible difficult.
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AAAGGHHHHH!!! I googled Semtex to see what it was. I'm probably on some list now. Anyway, what difference does it make if it's in the Cabin or in with checked baggage?
 
You got to wonder who this is targeted at. Terrorists too dumb to book a connecting flight via Asia?
 
luvflyin said:
Anyway, what difference does it make if it's in the Cabin or in with checked baggage?
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Checked baggage is screened by a CTX scanner which directly detects explosives but carry-on baggage is not. The technology is not small or fast enough (yet?) to use at the passenger screening point.

The technology used at the passenger screening point relies on an x-ray operator recognizing shapes and densities which may be the components of an explosive device. That's why the explosives might be hidden in a computer or other electronic device.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CTX_(explosive-detection_device)
 
luvflyin said:
AAAGGHHHHH!!! I googled Semtex to see what it was. I'm probably on some list now. Anyway, what difference does it make if it's in the Cabin or in with checked baggage?
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Who needs Semtex? Just use a few Lithium batts....
 
Personally I have no problems with PEDs being banned on all commercial flights everywhere. I very seldom use one in flight and prefer to read a book or magazine instead. So many PED users leave the sound on while watching a video or playing a game. These idiots don't seem to know how to use ear plugs or the volume control. Then you have the person frantically typing on their laptop keyboard.

However they rationalize the ban is of little importance to me. I'd just like to see it happen.
 
TSA has a 95% failure rate at detecting planted objects.

I may or may not know someone that may or may not have accidentally brought a loaded firearm on to an airplane in their carry on at one of the top 3 busiest airports in the country.

Our security needs to be seriously effing revamped. Prior to 9/11 we didn't have a successful hijacking for 14 years. Then there was an attempted hijacking in 1994, but current security measures could not have prevented that one from occurring.

Now we experience hours of delays, invasive crotch grabbing, etc. for what? So we can say "See? There hasn't been a hijacking since 9/11."

I'm all for airport security. I'm wholly opposed to what we call airport security.
 
Technically what TSA does, isn't airport security. It's too far inside the airport to protect the airport. It's aircraft security, and that should be the responsibility of those operating the aircraft, not the general public's bill. Reflect it in ticket prices.
 
I used a REI backpack for carry-on for quite a while, like for five years or so. Regular, frequent travel, usually originating from DC airports - BWI, IAD, DCA. Near the end of that time, I was stopped at security in Pensacola; because of the pocket knife buried in one of the interior pockets, where it had been for the previous five years.

In addition to the Washington DC airports, I'd been through Charlotte, Denver, Seattle, LA, Phoenix, etc., etc. . . My son speculated that TSA was probably a pretty decent job for the Pensacola area, where the economy wasn't so strong, and likely people who gave a sh*t about doing a good job were more abundant in the candidate pool.

The guy was cool about, treated it as an honest mistake, and I handed it off to my son to take home.
 
denverpilot said:
Technically what TSA does, isn't airport security. It's too far inside the airport to protect the airport. It's aircraft security, and that should be the responsibility of those operating the aircraft, not the general public's bill. Reflect it in ticket prices.
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It is. Isn't it?
 
SkyDog58 said:
Personally I have no problems with PEDs being banned on all commercial flights everywhere. I very seldom use one in flight and prefer to read a book or magazine instead. So many PED users leave the sound on while watching a video or playing a game. These idiots don't seem to know how to use ear plugs or the volume control. Then you have the person frantically typing on their laptop keyboard.

However they rationalize the ban is of little importance to me. I'd just like to see it happen.
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You don't travel for business. Or work for a company that says "thou shalt NOT check your company laptop in baggage". For good reason, it will get stolen. I understand your concern, and share it. However, the FAs will be happy to deal with it for you if the person failing to use a headset is bothering you. I haven't heard the keyboard in a laptop being a problem. And I've sat next to people using them, too.
 
ircphoenix said:
TSA has a 95% failure rate at detecting planted objects.

I may or may not know someone that may or may not have accidentally brought a loaded firearm on to an airplane in their carry on at one of the top 3 busiest airports in the country.

Our security needs to be seriously effing revamped. Prior to 9/11 we didn't have a successful hijacking for 14 years. Then there was an attempted hijacking in 1994, but current security measures could not have prevented that one from occurring.

Now we experience hours of delays, invasive crotch grabbing, etc. for what? So we can say "See? There hasn't been a hijacking since 9/11."

I'm all for airport security. I'm wholly opposed to what we call airport security.
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To what purpose would an airliner be hijacked? The cockpit door is impassable, and the collective security represented by the passengers is a 100% real deterrent. The hijacker(s) would probably end up dead IMHO.

Bombs? OK, one airliner goes down. That won't have much of an effect on deciding to fly or not. It wouldn't bother me.
 
3393RP said:
To what purpose would an airliner be hijacked? The cockpit door is impassable, and the collective security represented by the passengers is a 100% real deterrent. The hijacker(s) would probably end up dead IMHO.

Bombs? OK, one airliner goes down. That won't have much of an effect on deciding to fly or not. It wouldn't bother me.
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That's what I've been saying. Leave the metal detectors and xray devices. Get rid of the stupid "behavioral detection officers" in the terminals. Eliminate the toothpaste no bigger than a thumb rule. Restore security measures in place prior to 9/11. Upgraded cockpit doors = brilliant. New security procedures for crews and pilots = brilliant. Air marshals = brilliant. All the nonsense in the terminals? G'bye.
 
Ghery said:
You don't travel for business. Or work for a company that says "thou shalt NOT check your company laptop in baggage". For good reason, it will get stolen. I understand your concern, and share it. However, the FAs will be happy to deal with it for you if the person failing to use a headset is bothering you. I haven't heard the keyboard in a laptop being a problem. And I've sat next to people using them, too.
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Actually I have traveled for business and done so with a company laptop. If the government says to check all electronics then it gets checked regardless of what your company policy is.
 
denverpilot said:
Sounds like an opportunity for them to excel, and pay the other 2/3. :)
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I agree. I wonder what the verdict would be if that was proposed. Looks like it would raise the price of a ticket by about 12 bucks or so. Airlines are gonna vote no. Passengers are gonna vote no. Taxpayers would be expected to vote yes. But then passengers are also taxpayers. Well some of them. Some are on the low end and dont pay tax because of super low income and credits. Some are on the high end and dont pay because they are really smart and find ways not to.......................................................................
 
SkyDog58 said:
Actually I have traveled for business and done so with a company laptop. If the government says to check all electronics then it gets checked regardless of what your company policy is.
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Yup. So the laptop doesn't go with me. The company I retired from was quite paranoid about that sort of thing.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Actually I have traveled for business and done so with a company laptop. If the government says to check all electronics then it gets checked regardless of what your company policy is.
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I've worked for private companies on government contracts. DoD outweighs TSA any day. Fortunately I haven't run into the problem but others I worked with are required to hand carry at all times. To the point where they request the TSA supervisor and private room before they take out their DoD courier ID.
 
denverpilot said:
It's aircraft security, and that should be the responsibility of those operating the aircraft, not the general public's bill. Reflect it in ticket prices.
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Until 9/11, that's how it was.

The screeners were paid as little as possible, with little more than ad-hoc training.

The dominant airline at a terminal could fine-tune the rules to provide a competitive advantage -- I recall an x-ray machine with a template that prevented over-size bags from passing through. Over-size was defined by that one airline in such a way that passengers of other airlines often had to take their bags back to the ticket counter to check, even though they were small enough for their airline.
 
NoHeat said:
Until 9/11, that's how it was.

The screeners were paid as little as possible, with little more than ad-hoc training...
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Yes, as compared to our TSA team today.

The "trained" organization that repeatedly misses 95% of carry on weapons and explosives during their own Red Tem audits?

Where pay is low and turnover is so high they had to eliminate the high school education and GED requirement in order to scrape up enough new hires to fill vacancies?

And what banned item was missed by that 9/11 security team?

;)
 
denverpilot said:
Technically what TSA does, isn't airport security. It's too far inside the airport to protect the airport. It's aircraft security, and that should be the responsibility of those operating the aircraft, not the general public's bill. Reflect it in ticket prices.
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I'd say the pile of fees on a typical ticket accurately reflect that cost in the ticket prices.
 
From friends who are airline pilots and some who are cyber security types, the rumors I've put together are:

1) Bad guys could link several laptops together to all explode at once, and perhaps to breach the cockpit door.

2) Bad guys have been able to utilize the stored energy in laptop batteries to make powerful bombs out of working laptops without adding a lot of extra explosive material.

I can confirm that these are certified rumors.
 
JimNtexas said:
From friends who are airline pilots and some who are cyber security types, the rumors I've put together are:

1) Bad guys could link several laptops together to all explode at once, and perhaps to breach the cockpit door.

2) Bad guys have been able to utilize the stored energy in laptop batteries to make powerful bombs out of working laptops without adding a lot of extra explosive material.

I can confirm that these are certified rumors.
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Sounds like crap. Lithium batteries burn, they don't explode. There's nothing else inside a typical laptop that does either.
 
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