Choosing a CFI... old guy/gal or young guy/gal?

Harold Rutila said:
(2) Availability
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This item has picked more of my instructors for me over the years than any other. Haven't run into any truly bad instructors yet.

Have had older and younger and doesn't seem to matter.

Have also had the luxury of finding mostly folks who weren't time building for other jobs in a few of them. But didn't mind the time with the time builder either.

Had one with a personality clash that we've since then, worked out. The rest, no problems but all different personalities.

Learned something from all of them.
 
I look to be roughly your age, if I'm not mistaken. I'm around 60 (by "around" I mean exactly) os no offense if you are 24 but lived a hard life.

I mention it because it may make a difference, depending on if you prefer someone your age or not far off. Of if you can listen to, respect and take instruction from a much younger person. Advantages go to each in a way. Younger instructors have young persons reflexes, most likely quicker minds, more adaptable, more quick, but on the other hand they also are most likely still at a point that they can remember their own struggle to learn, remember being students and what seemed hard or came quickly. Older pilot instructors with a lot of experience may seem even too experienced in that they may be impatient, or have a harder time even explaining things that for them are now practically reflex. I am a guitarist who has been playing for fourty plus years and when I teach someone that is low time, I have a hard time even being able to explain things that to me are totally natural to the point where I have to sometimes analyze exactly WHAT I am doing to get the sound or effect or technique right. I can't relate as well to someone that has a hard time bending a string or vibrato, etc.

For me personally, I am a low time student, but I have experienced four different CFI's in my very short career as a student. For me, it is a mixed bag.

My very first instructor was a twenty something guy, who had a surprising amount of time logged (it seemed to me) was really perfect for me. He took time before each flight lesson to go over what we were going to do that flight, how it worked (he had some "known" kind of system that almost seemed like computer programming, with a flow chart to show for example how to properly trim the aircraft) and also he asked me questions to gauge my own understanding or lack of, so he made sure I understood the theory behind it. Then we flew, and he was patient, but demanding, at the same time he understood I was new to this and talked to me with a respect but also as a teacher to a student. Hard to explain but I really liked it. I was happy to pay for the extra hour before our flight.

He had to quit teaching because his job flying was taking more and more time and he couldn't be consistent with his time. I quickly went through two other instructors. Both had issues with me with their availability (I can fly weekends, Monday's, and after six in the weekday so not like I had severe demands) so that is another big thing to check.

When I asked to be assigned an instructor that would more often have availability when I could I had a new instructor. I think he is around my age. He (from all I can tell, and from rep) is an excellent pilot. He does acrobatic flying, and is just great. He doesn't seem to want to take an hour before our lessons (though he does take some time, more informal than my first instructor, but still he won't accept payment for that time) to brief. And I can't really explain it well but, he seems to be more impatient at times, even at my age I kind of feel like I'm flying with my father (who had a short fuse, and was a great pilot) and yet I think it may be ok as he is very good. Just when I feel I can't do anything right, or to expectations he says "I think you are doing really well". He himself was taut in the Air Force.

Don't know if any of this helps. Not sure either how this will work out for me. I know I had a real connection and liked the first guys methods and manner, but not sure how easy to find another like that. As a student it is not always easy to judge who is best for me.

Sorry for the long post, in the end, I am trying to just glean knowledge from them, learn from them, and be a good knowledgable pilot that is well rounded, and I want very much to know what NOT to do, and to be more comfortable with handling or not getting into the more dangerous aspects. I want to learn to get comfortabe with not getting into danger, but also getting out of it in case I inadvertently do get into it. Safety but by experience is what I hope to gain.
 
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Acrodustertoo said:
Age has nothing to do with it. It is all in their demeanor and temperament. A good instructor has knowledge, communication and awareness of their trainee. Everybody learns differently. They should be able to recognize and adapt their students accordingly. They should be able to see when their student gets a bit cocky and use a good dose of humility to bring them back down to an appropriate place. See when they are stuffing and find a way to fix that issue. Most of all they should be willing to do the work necessary to keep their students moving forward.
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Perfectly said. I had three primary instructors.

Two wanted to be there, loved teaching and loved being in the air. My first instructor was a very young CFI who kept his focus on his students and shared his knowledge and love of aviation, even when interviewing with Comair (back in the 90s) - couldn't help but be happy when he got the call to go. The instructor I finished with was an older gentleman who had no interests in being anything but a CFI - no charter, no airline aspirations, just teaching. He was the perfect balance of quiet and teaching at the same time.

Now the guy in the middle. The replacement for my first instructor was in his late 30's and he had zero talent or interest in teaching - was just collecting his pay. When I showed up for my third or fourth lesson with him and even the FBO hadn't been told he took off on a charter trip the previous day, I walked because I knew I wasn't going to be able to move forward as teaching students was nowhere on his priority list.

Just like you said, it's what the instructor brings to the table, not how old they are.
 
Do you get the knowledge you need from this instructor is the first and most important criteria. Teaching style, personality and the dedication of the instructor (and the student) all play into this.

That said, and all else being equal, I loved the nuggets of wisdom that I got from the two instructors who I've had for primary and instrument so far. And those nuggets came from experience and a lot of it. When you've accumulated ~10,000 hours in all sorts of missions and conditions in small GA aircraft, you learn things. Like the Farmer's Insurance ad: "We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two." But that is all else being equal. All that wisdom is useless if you can't communicate it effectively to this student.

John
 
I've come across multi thousand hour instructors who were awful and 300 hour instructors who were excellent instructors (maybe slightly green, but willing to improve and cared about students...I was there once myself). It ultimately boils down to one's aptitude and desire to be a good teacher. Flying experience doesn't always necessarily correlate directly to teaching ability.
 
GCA319 said:
I've come across multi thousand hour instructors who were awful and 300 hour instructors who were excellent instructors (maybe slightly green, but willing to improve and cared about students...I was there once myself). It ultimately boils down to one's aptitude and desire to be a good teacher. Flying experience doesn't always necessarily correlate directly to teaching ability.
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Certainly true and it doesn't matter how much experience if they can't communicate it effectively to you. But, all other things being equal, give me the experienced pilot as instructor. I want to hear their wisdom.

John
 
jsstevens said:
Certainly true and it doesn't matter how much experience if they can't communicate it effectively to you. But, all other things being equal, give me the experienced pilot as instructor. I want to hear their wisdom.

John
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Agreed. An experienced pilot who is also a good instructor is generally better than the low timer.
 
Well I really didn't have much of a choice. My first instructor was a part time guy. He was mid 20s and had his training from the University with aeronautical degree. Really laid back sometimes wondered if to laid back. He left to fly a learjet. My current CFI ex airforce, also mid 20s I'm guessing. He is very knowledgeable, always drilling me, asking me questions, and even when I responded with the right answer he asks me to explain. But just found out he just got hired by express jet. But he won't take off until June.. hopefully I'm done by then. Sitting at 20 hours. April has been bad weather for me. Have 4 flights this week including my dual xcountry but prob will cancel because of weather.. I'm happy with my training no matter age so far.
 
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I've had them all ages, but the oldest one (75+) was the worst (I started flying at 43 years of age 11 years ago). All the teaching and lessons occurred in the cockpit with the engine running (IR training) - really terrible. Had one for PPL and didn't have to change and he was excellent. Had one for upset training, spins and light acro that was truly gifted in his area (he competes in acro contests and spent a ton of time extra and didn't charge). I use a third CFI for flight reviews that is an excellent instructor and really works you through every possible emergency situation/scenario during the flight review.

My youngest CFI I think was 21 if that (Tiger transition training during travel to bring new bird home). He really knew his stuff and on the way home I asked him his age ... he hesitated and seemed a little defensive and asked if there was a problem. I told him absolutely not, but that I wished I had started as early as he did. He started in gliders as a 12 year old and had a ton of stick time with his father in motorized AC ... he was "delayed" due to age requirements for solo for glider and PPL. His PPL and IR occurred back to back and his commercial was I think the following week. Teaching style was excellent with zero pressure. He was truly gifted as far as stick and rudder as well as knowing the Garmin and other equipment I had on board like he had memorized the manual.
 
My instructor is 22. I'm 54
He's a few years mature, and I'm several years immature, so we mesh well.
At 22 he doesn't have a ton of hours, and I asked him if he was looking to build and go fly with the airlines. He said not so much, but as we have gotten to know each other, I think he ultimately wants that.
I let him know up front I don't care. That is his path, and if he leaves I'll continue mine. We are not married.
I also told him upfront, I had zero experience, but if I do well, and can pass my checkride in 40 hrs, then don't hold me back. At the same time I made him promise he wouldn't let me fly without being 100% safe. He promised, and so far I believe him. He cut one of our flights short because of some lower clouds showing up, but I saw no reason to quit.
He was ready to solo me at about 12 hrs, and says I should be quite ready by 40 hrs.
Rumor is...one of the other young instructors (23 I think) has an IFR student with over 100 hrs of IFR training and he still has not signed off on them. I asked if he was milking it, but the response was, Nope.. he's just super cautious about his students.
My instructor has been pulled away a few times for flying an Embraer Phenom jet (for business), as he is only 1 of 2 qualified to fly it locally. This has caused a few roadbumps in our scheduling, especially with my work, weather, and family to boot...but I take those opportunities to study for the written, or anything else... and of course read the expert advice on this forum (mine notwithstanding).
I'm actually impressed by him, especially at his age. He is doing what he loves, having fun, and getting paid.
For now, I'm doing something I love, having fun, and he's getting paid :)
So I have to agree age shouldn't be a concern. Sort of like planes... try em out and see if you like em.


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All that ever matters to me is that they know their stuff and are pleasant and mellow. I've flown with two hyper, talkative, know it all bozos. Turned around both times and landed.
My original instructor was calm and let me make mistakes so we could calmly discuss them. Learned lot and was well trained. After almost 20 years off I checked out in 2 hours for a total of 226. Bought an experimental in Long Island and flew it to California. A lifelong friend that has been flying Gulfstream and Global Express for 40 years. Best type of instructor ever!
 
Goofy said:
My original instructor was calm and let me make mistakes so we could calmly discuss them
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I have enjoyed this from my instructor too.
One of the things he did(does) is if my hand comes off that throttle during takeoff or climb, he jerks to idle instantly and says "it vibrated out".
Broke me quick from that bad habit and learned to only keep one hand on the yoke early on.
Does the same thing if I get wide in the pattern. Pulls that yoke and says "try to make the strip"
I'll start swearing at him in partial phrases "you no good..." or "you twisted son-of-a..."
I think he enjoys it, he laughs.
The first time or two I wasn't laughing. I was making a mental note to put a change of underwear in my flight bag.
 
azblackbird said:
Who do you prefer to learn from... somebody older or younger than you?

What were your actual experiences with either/or when taking your initial PPL instruction?

Just curious...
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My multi engine instructor was a female and 1 year younger than me. It was the best instructor I had! Having someone around your age (at least in my experience) makes flying and learning more fun. As always, it depends on their experience and their ability to instruct (someone who is there for the hours only verses someone who actually want to help people reach their goals).
 
Skyrys62 said:
I have enjoyed this from my instructor too.
One of the things he did(does) is if my hand comes off that throttle during takeoff or climb, he jerks to idle instantly and says "it vibrated out".
Broke me quick from that bad habit and learned to only keep one hand on the yoke early on.
Does the same thing if I get wide in the pattern. Pulls that yoke and says "try to make the strip"
I'll start swearing at him in partial phrases "you no good..." or "you twisted son-of-a..."
I think he enjoys it, he laughs.
The first time or two I wasn't laughing. I was making a mental note to put a change of underwear in my flight bag.
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ROFLMAO... all instructors are not-so-secretly sadistic bastards when it comes to not guarding the throttle quadrant. :)

Because some sadistic bastard did it to us...
 
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