Downwind takeoff

N747JB

N747JB

Final Approach
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
6,248
Location
Atlanta
Display Name
Display name:
John
We were in Destin yesterday afternoon around 6:30, getting ready to fly home. The wind was 140 at 12 or so knots, right down the runway. Well, this fully loaded Caravan, it's a small regional operator, is loading up as we are getting ready. I'm inside paying for fuel, when he announces on CTAF that he's taxing for 32!! The windsock is directly in front of the FBO, so it's hard to miss. At first I thought he misspoke and would taxi to 14, nope. Even with other planes departing from 14, he announces and departs 32! I'm outside by the time he starts his roll, I'm guessing he used a good 4000 feet of runway to finally get airborne, even skipped a couple times before he got the speed to climb!! He was heading to Memphis and 14 is a shorter taxi than 32, but I can't imagine taking off at near gross weight with that much tailwind? :eek:
 
I've seen this many times before myself: there are very small commercial operations running at Mackinaw Island and also Beaver Island here in Michigan. I've noticed both operations seem to pay no attention to wind direction when taking off...its all about the fastest/closest takeoff. I've seen them "ignore" 15 knot winds on takeoff, using up scary amounts of runway just to get going quicker, or in a better/more direct route.
 
tawood said:
I've seen this many times before myself: there are very small commercial operations running at Mackinaw Island and also Beaver Island here in Michigan. I've noticed both operations seem to pay no attention to wind direction when taking off...its all about the fastest/closest takeoff. I've seen them "ignore" 15 knot winds on takeoff, using up scary amounts of runway just to get going quicker, or in a better/more direct route.
Click to expand...
Refer to post #2
 
I don't really see an issue with it unless he caused someone to alter their pattern because of it. If the POH says he had enough runway for the conditions, which he did since he got off, why not? Now if someone was on base or final and had to go around because of his actions that would be another story. That Caravan is probably burning 40 gallons/hr on the ground so I can't blame him for not wasting time.
 
Ain't got no time for wind direction!
 
I see the jumper dumper Caravan do this at Byron for every takeoff.

His takeoff performance is fine. Disrupting the pattern isn't.

It may be a "small" airplane, but the turbine makes a difference.
 
I guess I'm in the minority here. "Small regional operator" hints he was carrying pax, and they rely on you to take the safer path. I'm not a commercial pilot but to me, it would have been much safer to takeoff into a direct 12 knot wind. If something were to happen on the takeoff roll to do with overruns, power loss, etc., the NTSB report would certainly and rightly say that the downwind takeoff was a contributing factor.
 
If you have the performance for it, and the limitations allow it, downwind takeoffs and landings are permitted under part 121 and 135.

Of the airliners I've flown, the J32, DC8, DC9, and CRJ had a limit of 10kts of tailwind and the B757/767 and B737 were limited to 15kts tailwind. Runway required goes up considerably but the Caravan doesn't use a lot to begin with.
 
Having flow in and out of Destin a bunch, I agree that it is head scratching. 14 is a shorter taxi, with it being lined up with the wind and the passengers getting the beach view turnout, seems strange. Maybe the condo's scared him :)
 
Last edited:
My airplanes have sufficient performance to take off in 12kts of tailwind. Occasionally I choose a tailwind over a headwind when terrain warrants the compromise. With landings the acceptable tailwind factor drops by at least half.
 
With other planes in the pattern or taking off, using the wrong runway shows a complete disregard for everyone else's safety so they can save 2-3 minutes. Stupid.
 
I flew a Caravan straight float plane. At gross, a downwind takeoff would have been near impossible....................Lake Union is not long enough, let alone getting on the step.
 
Yawn, I did 8 take offs yesterday with a 10ish knot tailwind, and even had 13 people on board a couple of times. Who cares, he clearly knew what he was doing.
 
So, the FBO at DTS is at the end of 32 and 14 would have been the long way. I don't see the issue really and they made the decision to use 32.
 
UngaWunga said:
With other planes in the pattern or taking off, using the wrong runway shows a complete disregard for everyone else's safety so they can save 2-3 minutes. Stupid.
Click to expand...

Had a bunch of weekend warriors try that garbage on me at 48X. I was landing into the wind and called CTAF up at the appropriate times. They said, "well we're using XX" (the same runway different direction)..then they all proceeded to take off (after I landed and had taxiied off) did one loop in the pattern and called it a day.
 
I used to fly to a private strip in Alaska that was one way in, opposite way out. Didn't bother about the wind except to determine loads.
 
JohnAJohnson said:
I guess I'm in the minority here. "Small regional operator" hints he was carrying pax, and they rely on you to take the safer path.
Click to expand...
In this case it's not pax, it's a small Fedex Feeder operation known as what I believe to be Mountain Air Cargo or something of the like.
 
I'm not condoning this, but having flown both the C208 and DHC-6, they definitely have the performance to do this on a 5,000' runway. Fully loaded with skydivers, I can get the Twin Otter into the air in less than 2 stripes. The Caravan takes a bit longer, but it's got plenty of engine.
 
Ryanb said:
In this case it's not pax, it's a small Fedex Feeder operation known as what I believe to be Mountain Air Cargo or something of the like.
Click to expand...
Full of passengers, looked like 8-10 plus a small dog loading up.
 
If Taking off downwind I either have performance data to base a decision on or I'm in a single seat ac that can quickly become a lot lighter. In either case I always integrate into established traffic and give way since I'm the odd ball, regardless of how much jet fuel I burn at idle.
 
Caramon13 said:
.... They said, "well we're using XX" (the same runway different direction)..then they all proceeded to take off (after I landed and had taxiied off) did one loop in the pattern and called it a day.
Click to expand...

That is HIGHLY discouraged around here ... have to go to the acro box for that stuff;):D
 
All is fine if within performance/limits.....
until something bad happens. Than it will be careless & reckless.
 
When there is a choice would you rather depart downhill or into the wind?
 
ChemGuy said:
Too much math. Kick the tires and light the fires. Firewall that throttle and when reaching Vr, put down the jack and coke and yank back on the yoke. thats my motto.
Click to expand...

Pfft..real pilots pour themselves a cup of tea with a barrel roll before reaching TPA :)
 
One of the my local airports that was only recently moth-balled required landings on 07 and take-offs on 25 (terrain issue).
 
Did a 14kt quatering tailwind landing today on a non-towered, inadvertently. No discernable difference experienced.
 
Ryanb said:
In this case it's not pax, it's a small Fedex Feeder operation known as what I believe to be Mountain Air Cargo or something of the like.
Click to expand...

In that case, I have no issue with him or anyone else taking off downwind, from a catapult, off a cliff, etc.
 
citizen5000 said:
Did a 14kt quatering tailwind landing today on a non-towered, inadvertently. No discernable difference experienced.
Click to expand...
I did an accidental tailwind landing once, on a nontowered isolated field with no WX and a windsock I couldn't find (it was supposedly there). After shutdown, I estimated the tailwind at about 10 knots. I did a pretty good, fairly short and on-target, landing in a 182. I would never do that on purpose, but the landing and roll out really weren't bad. Then again, I'd never again go to that airport on purpose. At touchdown, the pavement was so bad I thought I landed on a blown tire. All the tires were fine. New Jerusalem, 1Q4.
 
I did a tailwind landing on my first solo at KOMN. For reasons I still don't understand, they first sent me to 35, and after first round, mid-pattern they decided to use 17.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top